NYT: Under DeVos, U.S. Crackdown on For-Profit Schools Is Said to Go Idle

[Virginiá]

U.S. Crackdown on For-Profit Schools Is Said to Go Idle

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/business/education-department-for-profit-schools.html

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It is things like this that make me wonder if letting fraud occur and having billions in federal funds be used to pay off useless for-profit colleges that dupe kids into getting one of their useless paper "degrees" now a valid pro-business conservative position? I don't understand what logic this woman is using in doing what she is doing. It's not even like this is purely a concern of the market - these "schools" tend to get most of their funding from the federal government, so making sure that money is well-spent should be a priority.

[Badger]

Hello? Trump backers?? Where are you?? 

Desperately waiting to hear how everything is better because he's in the White House. It is actually inconceivable to the degree people into writing a blank check for the most lowborn in 5 pieces of governance just so they can win the trifecta of getting scalia's seat comma killing Obamacare, and getting more upper income tax breaks

[MasterJedi]

We have the lovely problem in Wisconsin in that the voucher schools have no oversight and can do whatever they want. Need to make it so that the private, for profit colleges don't have student loans provided to students going there from the government. Need to close most voucher schools and get strict regulation over the ones that remain.

[Hindsight was 2020]

We have the lovely problem in Wisconsin in that the voucher schools have no oversight and can do whatever they want. Need to make it so that the private, for profit colleges don't have student loans provided to students going there from the government. Need to close most voucher schools and get strict regulation over the ones that remain.

Seriously how can Walker have such a bad run as gov here with these types of local problems but the state is still trending red? Or any serious dems want to challenge him? With a state like Kansas you kinda understand as they have been voting red forever but Wisconsin has been blue/purple state for a long time

[Mike Thick]

How is this in any way defensible? Even from a conservative perspective, this seems like the epitome of "crapitalism."

[Maxwell]

This is what the DeVos pick has always meant - that fake schools run rampant in this country again, and public schools get saddled with the bill. Utterly disgusting.

[dead0man]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

[MasterJedi]

We have the lovely problem in Wisconsin in that the voucher schools have no oversight and can do whatever they want. Need to make it so that the private, for profit colleges don't have student loans provided to students going there from the government. Need to close most voucher schools and get strict regulation over the ones that remain.

Seriously how can Walker have such a bad run as gov here with these types of local problems but the state is still trending red? Or any serious dems want to challenge him? With a state like Kansas you kinda understand as they have been voting red forever but Wisconsin has been blue/purple state for a long time

Mainly with hatred against Milwaukee and how "liberals want to increase your taxes and flush your money down the drain". They think if you walk into the city of Milwaukee you will get mugged, raped and shot which is so far from the truth it's sad, but people, especially outstate believe it. Meanwhile the city is booming and gets $0.67 back for every $1 it sends to the state in taxes.

[Maxwell]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

[dead0man]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

And Obama's buddy Marty Nesbitt thinks he is going to make a killing off of it.  Shady as hell.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton got paid $17.5 million from a for-profit University, some of it while Hillary was SoS.

I don't care if a school is for profit or not.  I do care if schools are screwing over their students, but it doesn't matter if the school is making money or not.  Non-profit schools screw over students too, and they should have their peepee spanked when they do it just like the for profits.  Trump is wrong here just like he is wrong about most things.  Sure, Bill is less wrong for taking money from them, unless of course he or his wife used their pull to benefit the for profit schools....which of course they did.  Which is why I pointed it out.

[Badger]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

And Obama's buddy Marty Nesbitt thinks he is going to make a killing off of it.  Shady as hell.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton got paid $17.5 million from a for-profit University, some of it while Hillary was SoS.

I don't care if a school is for profit or not.  I do care if schools are screwing over their students, but it doesn't matter if the school is making money or not.  Non-profit schools screw over students too, and they should have their peepee spanked when they do it just like the for profits.  Trump is wrong here just like he is wrong about most things.  Sure, Bill is less wrong for taking money from them, unless of course he or his wife used their pull to benefit the for profit schools....which of course they did.  Which is why I pointed it out.

No. Just plain no, Deadman. There was nothing remotely similar in size scope or general intent of the DeVos raging penchant for giving Fly by Night money making private profit schools which screw kids over a complete blank check. Do not do yourself a disservice of deluding yourself into thinking that your vote for Trump open the door for everything you just described and claimed two hate.

If you thought for a second Trump, after running freaking Trump University comma happy with anything separately comma well let's just say I'm voting for Trump yuquot what he was selling Hook Line and send... Well let's just say the package Trump offered you swallowed in tirely.

[Virginiá]

"but Clinton"

[Xing]

This is why a rich parent who knows nothing about education (but thinks she knows more than teachers and principals and that she should get to dictate how schools are run) should not be Secretary of Education.

[dead0man]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

And Obama's buddy Marty Nesbitt thinks he is going to make a killing off of it.  Shady as hell.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton got paid $17.5 million from a for-profit University, some of it while Hillary was SoS.

I don't care if a school is for profit or not.  I do care if schools are screwing over their students, but it doesn't matter if the school is making money or not.  Non-profit schools screw over students too, and they should have their peepee spanked when they do it just like the for profits.  Trump is wrong here just like he is wrong about most things.  Sure, Bill is less wrong for taking money from them, unless of course he or his wife used their pull to benefit the for profit schools....which of course they did.  Which is why I pointed it out.

No. Just plain no, Deadman. There was nothing remotely similar in size scope or general intent of the DeVos raging penchant for giving Fly by Night money making private profit schools which screw kids over a complete blank check. Do not do yourself a disservice of deluding yourself into thinking that your vote for Trump open the door for everything you just described and claimed two hate.

If you thought for a second Trump, after running freaking Trump University comma happy with anything separately comma well let's just say I'm voting for Trump yuquot what he was selling Hook Line and send... Well let's just say the package Trump offered you swallowed in tirely.

how in the ....where....why do you think I voted for Trump?  So weird.  Are you new?


I'm sorry your standard knee jerk defenses aren't hitting here.  Perhaps you guys could try reading what I typed instead skimming it and making assumptions?

[SingingAnalyst]

I believe it. I teach high school full-time, and college/university part-time. I taught briefly at a for-profit school; they made us write letters to our Senators and Congress members asking them to go easy on our school. That still bothers me, thinking about it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Good news for Cory Booker's school privatization efforts!

[Indy Texas]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

And Obama's buddy Marty Nesbitt thinks he is going to make a killing off of it.  Shady as hell.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton got paid $17.5 million from a for-profit University, some of it while Hillary was SoS.

I don't care if a school is for profit or not.  I do care if schools are screwing over their students, but it doesn't matter if the school is making money or not.  Non-profit schools screw over students too, and they should have their peepee spanked when they do it just like the for profits.  Trump is wrong here just like he is wrong about most things.  Sure, Bill is less wrong for taking money from them, unless of course he or his wife used their pull to benefit the for profit schools....which of course they did.  Which is why I pointed it out.

For-profit schools serve no purpose other than workforce training. If students are not getting jobs that pay well enough to pay back the loans they borrowed to go there, then it amounts to fraud.

Traditional higher education has never placed "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB!" at the forefront. College was originally basically finishing school for children of the elite. That is no longer the case, but there is still a personal development aspect.

I don't think a person who majored in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence College is going to go straight into a $60K/year job immediately after doing that, but that's not why most people are majoring in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence. However, someone who is majoring in information systems at the University of Phoenix very obviously intends to work in IT and if they cannot do so, that is a problem.

[dead0man]

For-profit schools serve no purpose other than workforce training. If students are not getting jobs that pay well enough to pay back the loans they borrowed to go there, then it amounts to fraud.

Traditional higher education has never placed "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB!" at the forefront. College was originally basically finishing school for children of the elite. That is no longer the case, but there is still a personal development aspect.

I don't think a person who majored in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence College is going to go straight into a $60K/year job immediately after doing that, but that's not why most people are majoring in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence. However, someone who is majoring in information systems at the University of Phoenix very obviously intends to work in IT and if they cannot do so, that is a problem.

Generally agree with all that.  I agree that colleges don't tend to do the "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB" thing, but everybody else that wants you to go to college does it for them....from counselors to parents and from teachers to the media.  


I'd also say that the person who majored in gender studies shouldn't bitch about student loans.  If you want to go to school for four plus years to get a degree in something society finds so worthless nobody will pay you to do it, you shouldn't expect society to pay for it....but that would be a hijack, so I"m not going to do that

[Badger]

The people you vote for (especially the last person you voted for) have been making a ton of money off of these sh**tty schools for years.  Weird that it's an issue for you now.

the difference, of course, being the last administration cracked down on fake schools while this administration not only loves them but encourages them. Admittedly, in the Obama admin it's too little too late but still.

Also stop with the whataboutery. It's not as poignant as you think it is.

And Obama's buddy Marty Nesbitt thinks he is going to make a killing off of it.  Shady as hell.

Meanwhile, Bill Clinton got paid $17.5 million from a for-profit University, some of it while Hillary was SoS.

I don't care if a school is for profit or not.  I do care if schools are screwing over their students, but it doesn't matter if the school is making money or not.  Non-profit schools screw over students too, and they should have their peepee spanked when they do it just like the for profits.  Trump is wrong here just like he is wrong about most things.  Sure, Bill is less wrong for taking money from them, unless of course he or his wife used their pull to benefit the for profit schools....which of course they did.  Which is why I pointed it out.

No. Just plain no, Deadman. There was nothing remotely similar in size scope or general intent of the DeVos raging penchant for giving Fly by Night money making private profit schools which screw kids over a complete blank check. Do not do yourself a disservice of deluding yourself into thinking that your vote for Trump open the door for everything you just described and claimed two hate.

If you thought for a second Trump, after running freaking Trump University comma happy with anything separately comma well let's just say I'm voting for Trump yuquot what he was selling Hook Line and send... Well let's just say the package Trump offered you swallowed in tirely.

how in the ....where....why do you think I voted for Trump?  So weird.  Are you new?


I'm sorry your standard knee jerk defenses aren't hitting here.  Perhaps you guys could try reading what I typed instead skimming it and making assumptions?

Sorry deadman, your comparison to Clinton smacked of defending a prior vote. I honestly don't keep that close track of wbom info individual atlas posters vote for.

That said, the attempts at a comparison to the Clintons is still way off base.

[Badger]

For-profit schools serve no purpose other than workforce training. If students are not getting jobs that pay well enough to pay back the loans they borrowed to go there, then it amounts to fraud.

Traditional higher education has never placed "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB!" at the forefront. College was originally basically finishing school for children of the elite. That is no longer the case, but there is still a personal development aspect.

I don't think a person who majored in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence College is going to go straight into a $60K/year job immediately after doing that, but that's not why most people are majoring in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence. However, someone who is majoring in information systems at the University of Phoenix very obviously intends to work in IT and if they cannot do so, that is a problem.

Generally agree with all that.  I agree that colleges don't tend to do the "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB" thing, but everybody else that wants you to go to college does it for them....from counselors to parents and from teachers to the media.  


I'd also say that the person who majored in gender studies shouldn't bitch about student loans.  If you want to go to school for four plus years to get a degree in something society finds so worthless nobody will pay you to do it, you shouldn't expect society to pay for it....but that would be a hijack, so I"m not going to do that

I believe the number of college grads employed in a job unrelated to their undergrad major is around 90%. There exceptions in some majors like accounting, business (generally), and some hard science majors like chemistry and geology. The real value of a degree is to show an employer you can do the work and multi-year dedication to complete a degree program.

[pbrower2a]

For-profit schools serve no purpose other than workforce training. If students are not getting jobs that pay well enough to pay back the loans they borrowed to go there, then it amounts to fraud.

Traditional higher education has never placed "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB!" at the forefront. College was originally basically finishing school for children of the elite. That is no longer the case, but there is still a personal development aspect.

I don't think a person who majored in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence College is going to go straight into a $60K/year job immediately after doing that, but that's not why most people are majoring in gender studies at Sarah Lawrence. However, someone who is majoring in information systems at the University of Phoenix very obviously intends to work in IT and if they cannot do so, that is a problem.

Generally agree with all that.  I agree that colleges don't tend to do the "WE'LL GET YOU A JOB" thing, but everybody else that wants you to go to college does it for them....from counselors to parents and from teachers to the media.  


I'd also say that the person who majored in gender studies shouldn't bitch about student loans.  If you want to go to school for four plus years to get a degree in something society finds so worthless nobody will pay you to do it, you shouldn't expect society to pay for it....but that would be a hijack, so I"m not going to do that

The idea behind post-secondary education was to make the students within them better people so that when they get a chance at roles of leadership they will make moral and intelligent choices. If someone graduates from college and gets a job at the plant and becomes a shop steward, then that is no waste.

Training someone at a modest program to get a modest result for a modest cost  -- let us say becoming a hairdresser  -- is in theory an acceptable use of educational resources so long as one has a good chance of getting such a job. But such a training program typically recognizes its limitations. Who knows? The person with a degree in an unmarketable field might be just the person that one might want as a bartender after a short course on 'mixology'. 

...I recall some of the bad educational institutions, mostly under the umbrella of Corinthian Colleges, that promised excellent vocational results for students who didn't fit traditional models for college students.  These schools advertised heavily on daytime TV (real college students watch little television of any kind) -- really-bad daytime television. The sort in which chairs might fly or in which someone might be exposed with "You are the father!". That's even worse than the game shows and wash-day weepers. I'm guessing that many of the people who watch such programming are either unemployed or work awful jobs on the night shift and hate it.

But why should we be surprised? Profit is the only virtue that the Trump Administration recognizes. All must bow down to the Great God Mammon -- Trump's real god.