Southern Conservatives are America's Unofficial Third Party

[Frodo]

And it's a third party that has been in existence since the founding of the republic:

Southern Conservatives Are America's Third Party

Chris Ladd ,   Contributor

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[RINO Tom]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

[White Trash]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

And even now, they aren't that conservative in comparison to the rest of the party. Sure they make up the right wing of the party on social and cultural issues, but just about everything else they are significantly less conservative than a Republican in say Utah or North Dakota.

[RaphaelDLG]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

Except they quickly started to oppose all that sh**t when the republican party very successfully painted it as handouts for brown people

ETA:  I misread you, you're at least partially right, though they still even back then opposed that stuff when black people got it

[Chinggis]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

That's true to an extent, and it's probably correlated with rising standards of living. Social spending and income redistribution- the great social contract we had in the Roosevelt Republic- was likely too successful from a partisan Democratic perspective, in that it created a solid white middle class who then turned against the programs that had helped them to success!

But to be completely fair, there has always been an anti-government perspective among southern whites. One could point to the fact that only in the area immediately surrounding the TVA, for example, were any kind of significant and lasting Democratic gains recorded in the New Deal days. In most of the South, FDR actually did worse in each of his four elections. In 1944, Thomas Dewey got almost 40 percent of the vote in Winn Parish. That was Huey Long's stomping grounds, the former home of Populist and Socialist voters, and people there were already deciding that FDR was too liberal!

[RINO Tom]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

Except they quickly started to oppose all that sh**t when the republican party very successfully painted it as handouts for brown people

ETA:  I misread you, you're at least partially right, though they still even back then opposed that stuff when black people got it

Exactly.  I'm not saying they were "liberals," meaning some connection to modern liberal Democrats.  I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  Many, unfortunately, were clearly willing to compromise political ideology as long as it advanced the society they wanted.

And before someone brings up that they wanted to CONSERVE traditional institutions such as segregation, I just don't buy that definition for POLITICAL conservatism, at least as an instrument to draw parallels between different political eras.  For example, if Trump goes crazy and starts to threaten our democratic institutions, I will not view the Democrats who fight against this change as "conservatives for their time" or some BS just because they were trying to keep the status quo.

[catographer]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

Except they quickly started to oppose all that sh**t when the republican party very successfully painted it as handouts for brown people

ETA:  I misread you, you're at least partially right, though they still even back then opposed that stuff when black people got it

Exactly.  I'm not saying they were "liberals," meaning some connection to modern liberal Democrats.  I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  Many, unfortunately, were clearly willing to compromise political ideology as long as it advanced the society they wanted.

And before someone brings up that they wanted to CONSERVE traditional institutions such as segregation, I just don't buy that definition for POLITICAL conservatism, at least as an instrument to draw parallels between different political eras.  For example, if Trump goes crazy and starts to threaten our democratic institutions, I will not view the Democrats who fight against this change as "conservatives for their time" or some BS just because they were trying to keep the status quo.

I'd make the point that white southerners have always been culturally/socially conservative for their times. The southern social conservatives of 1860s supported slavery, those of the 1960s opposed slavery but supported segregation, those of the 2010s opposed slavery and segregation but turn a blind eye to modern-day racism against AAs.

Anyway, I agree very strongly with this article. I've always felt that southern whites have made up a distinct political culture and identity independent of their party affiliation. The rare times when both parties were competitive among southern whites, they were all united in "conservative coalitions" like when GOP and Demcratic congressmen from the south opposed the Civil Rights Act, or supported the economically conservative agenda of Reagan (he had a Dem House all 8 years).

[catographer]

I find the divide between the political cultures of the American South and North as similar to the divide between the North and South of Italy. Northern Italy has been more metropolitan, populous, industrial, and democratic. The South has been poorer, more agrarian, and parochial. The same can be said for the North and South USA, for the most part.

[SoLongAtlas]

I agree with this article. Really though America is still two countries but merged into one violently via the Civil War and slowly in the years that followed. One cannot understand the politics or demography in this situation without understanding the remnants of the Confederacy. The South is very traditional, hesitant to change, and agrarian to this day minus big city areas that bring resentment from people in the same states, i.e., Georgians hating Atlanta, SC people hating the beach bums, etc. (Rural vs. urban, especially rural vs. urban people moving down from NY/NJ/NE)).

[RINO Tom]

Southern Conservatives Whites Are America's Unofficial Third Party

Nothing conservative about a bunch of voters who supported the New Deal, a strong social safety net, increased wealth redistribution and public works projects except for their racism, which isn't a "conservative" trait.

Why can't people accept that modern Southern Whites are more conservative than their great grandparents ever were?

Except they quickly started to oppose all that sh**t when the republican party very successfully painted it as handouts for brown people

ETA:  I misread you, you're at least partially right, though they still even back then opposed that stuff when black people got it

Exactly.  I'm not saying they were "liberals," meaning some connection to modern liberal Democrats.  I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  Many, unfortunately, were clearly willing to compromise political ideology as long as it advanced the society they wanted.

And before someone brings up that they wanted to CONSERVE traditional institutions such as segregation, I just don't buy that definition for POLITICAL conservatism, at least as an instrument to draw parallels between different political eras.  For example, if Trump goes crazy and starts to threaten our democratic institutions, I will not view the Democrats who fight against this change as "conservatives for their time" or some BS just because they were trying to keep the status quo.

I'd make the point that white southerners have always been culturally/socially conservative for their times. The southern social conservatives of 1860s supported slavery, those of the 1960s opposed slavery but supported segregation, those of the 2010s opposed slavery and segregation but turn a blind eye to modern-day racism against AAs.

Anyway, I agree very strongly with this article. I've always felt that southern whites have made up a distinct political culture and identity independent of their party affiliation. The rare times when both parties were competitive among southern whites, they were all united in "conservative coalitions" like when GOP and Demcratic congressmen from the south opposed the Civil Rights Act, or supported the economically conservative agenda of Reagan (he had a Dem House all 8 years).

While it's very easy to paint the Southern Democrats who defended slavery as "socially conservative," it's pretty damn evident that the Northern Republicans who were fighting for abolition were quite socially conservative by every modern metric we could possibly apply (strictly moralist, in favor of restricted immigration, extremely religious/in favor of legislating morality, etc.), I'd argue CLEARLY more socially conservative than their Northern Democratic rivals, so why then do the Southern Democrats get more associated with conservatism by some here than Northern Republicans of the 1860s?  Because they were "conserving" slavery?  Sorry, but I find that lazy.

[RINO Tom]

I agree with this article. Really though America is still two countries but merged into one violently via the Civil War and slowly in the years that followed. One cannot understand the politics or demography in this situation without understanding the remnants of the Confederacy. The South is very traditional, hesitant to change, and agrarian to this day minus big city areas that bring resentment from people in the same states, i.e., Georgians hating Atlanta, SC people hating the beach bums, etc. (Rural vs. urban, especially rural vs. urban people moving down from NY/NJ/NE)).

Okay, I guess I get the point of your post ... but let's not jump the gun here.  The rural parts of South Carolina are more Democratic than the suburban parts, so it's not like there is this clean rural/urban divide (which, depending on what the definition of "urban" is and which category suburbs and exurbs fit into, is very, very overrated when it comes to our politics, IMO).

[SoLongAtlas]

I agree with this article. Really though America is still two countries but merged into one violently via the Civil War and slowly in the years that followed. One cannot understand the politics or demography in this situation without understanding the remnants of the Confederacy. The South is very traditional, hesitant to change, and agrarian to this day minus big city areas that bring resentment from people in the same states, i.e., Georgians hating Atlanta, SC people hating the beach bums, etc. (Rural vs. urban, especially rural vs. urban people moving down from NY/NJ/NE)).

Okay, I guess I get the point of your post ... but let's not jump the gun here.  The rural parts of South Carolina are more Democratic than the suburban parts, so it's not like there is this clean rural/urban divide (which, depending on what the definition of "urban" is and which category suburbs and exurbs fit into, is very, very overrated when it comes to our politics, IMO).

Well I'll give you that. I know there is some animosity between central VA folks and VB people. Haven't been to SC in like 10 years so it probably has shifted a bit.

[Skill and Chance]

This was clearly true from 1870-1970.  It's hard to argue that it's still true now, though.

[hopper]

They aren't really Conservative their just Socially Conservative and they vote on social issues mainly.

[jojoju1998]

They aren't really Conservative their just Socially Conservative and they vote on social issues mainly.

That was why they voted for Reagan. Because during the 60s and 70s, The Democratic Party abandoned Economic Issues and the Working Class to support a " New Left " Ideology. Reagan's Economic Ideas really doesn't help the working class but his support of Conservative Social Issues helped to cement Southern Democrats into the Republican Party.

Bill Clinton changed the Democratic Party in the 90s into a NeoLiberal Socially Progressive Party to adapt to the Reagan Revolution, and to take the Socially Progerssive but Economic Conservative Voters away from the Republicans. Clinton was the one who signed Welfare Reform, and Free Trade Deals.

But now those NeoLiberal Ideas are not really working. Automation, The New Technology Age, and many other factors have led to the rise of the Populists. Trump represents the Right Wing Populists. Bernie Sanders the Left Wing Populists. If you take a look at France, You'll also see a similar scenario.

[uti2]

I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  

Without Bush demagoguing to the southern religious bloc in 2000, Gore would've won. That's an example of how the south has shaped modern conservative politics.

[RINO Tom]

I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  

Without Bush demagoguing to the southern religious bloc in 2000, Gore would've won. That's an example of how the south has shaped modern conservative politics.

And non-simpletons can appreciate that "The South" isn't a static region across decades, and it's perfectly possible for the grandparents and great grandparents of current White Southerners to have been significantly more liberal on economic and class issues, which they clearly were.

[uti2]

I'm just saying they weren't "conservatives," meaning some connection to modern conservative Republicans, either.  

Without Bush demagoguing to the southern religious bloc in 2000, Gore would've won. That's an example of how the south has shaped modern conservative politics.

And non-simpletons can appreciate that "The South" isn't a static region across decades, and it's perfectly possible for the grandparents and great grandparents of current White Southerners to have been significantly more liberal on economic and class issues, which they clearly were.

It's more like that the old democrats were more conservative on social and cultural issues, so as the democrats evolved on those social/cultural issues (despite the south having inclinations towards them on economic/class issues), the south moved away from them.

You had the GOP actively courting the religious vote, and the Dems declining to chase that demo on those grounds. Lewinsky gave an opening for Bush.

[JoshPA]

Are we forgetting about Huey Long?