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Author Topic: Liberal cities in conservative states  (Read 1778 times)
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« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2014, 09:23:13 pm »
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California without 3rd world LA or SF would be a swing state.  Folks feel as if their voice does not matter in real CA

Except the Republican dominated Deep South is much more like the third world than every other region.
This isn't exactly fair; while that guys comment were stupid, the problems in that region go back before the Republicans ever won a Southern state;on the other hand, many of the richest districts in the country go Republican.
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« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2014, 09:49:09 pm »
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California without 3rd world LA or SF would be a swing state.  Folks feel as if their voice does not matter in real CA

Except the Republican dominated Deep South is much more like the third world than every other region.
This isn't exactly fair; while that guys comment were stupid, the problems in that region go back before the Republicans ever won a Southern state;on the other hand, many of the richest districts in the country go Republican.

The Deep South was still ruled by conservative right-wingers that had much more in common with today's Republican today than with today's Democratic party.

This thread is meaningless since just about every large city is more liberal than its state.
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2014, 10:53:54 pm »
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California without 3rd world LA or SF would be a swing state.  Folks feel as if their voice does not matter in real CA

Except the Republican dominated Deep South is much more like the third world than every other region.
This isn't exactly fair; while that guys comment were stupid, the problems in that region go back before the Republicans ever won a Southern state;on the other hand, many of the richest districts in the country go Republican.

The Deep South was still ruled by conservative right-wingers that had much more in common with today's Republican today than with today's Democratic party.
I vehemently challenge you on that. The people who ruled the South were economic progressives; much of the New Deal would not have passed without them. It's a mistake to claim they were similar to today's Republican Party economically.

Disclosure: I am in no way a Republican or conservative.

Ehh, saying they were economic progressives is a bit much. The South did pass right-to-work, after all. And there were some segments of Southern Democrats--like the Byrd Machine in VA--which were pretty economically conservative.
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2014, 11:25:01 pm »
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The south was at one point much poorer relative to the country than it was today. The New Deal which was supported by most southern democrats was instrumental in bringing economic development and eventually urbanization to the south. Without the wealth it gained as a result, mid-century republican gains in the south would have slowed considerably. The reason why the south is poor began before the democratic solid south, when the region's economy was built on a mode of agriculture which relied on a large underclass.
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« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2015, 04:43:23 pm »
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The south was at one point much poorer relative to the country than it was today. The New Deal which was supported by most southern democrats was instrumental in bringing economic development and eventually urbanization to the south. Without the wealth it gained as a result, mid-century republican gains in the south would have slowed considerably. The reason why the south is poor began before the democratic solid south, when the region's economy was built on a mode of agriculture which relied on a large underclass.

Also extremely important in the increasing prosperity in the South in this time period was outsourcing from the North to the cheaper, less unionized South.
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2015, 04:58:43 pm »
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Also extremely important in the increasing prosperity in the South in this time period was outsourcing from the North to the cheaper, less unionized South.

I have to wonder how people who relocate to the South react when they find out they can't unionize. I'd be furious.
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2015, 09:37:28 pm »
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California without 3rd world LA or SF would be a swing state.  Folks feel as if their voice does not matter in real CA

Except the Republican dominated Deep South is much more like the third world than every other region.
This isn't exactly fair; while that guys comment were stupid, the problems in that region go back before the Republicans ever won a Southern state;on the other hand, many of the richest districts in the country go Republican.

The Deep South was still ruled by conservative right-wingers that had much more in common with today's Republican today than with today's Democratic party.
I vehemently challenge you on that. The people who ruled the South were economic progressives; much of the New Deal would not have passed without them. It's a mistake to claim they were similar to today's Republican Party economically.

Disclosure: I am in no way a Republican or conservative.

Ehh, saying they were economic progressives is a bit much. The South did pass right-to-work, after all. And there were some segments of Southern Democrats--like the Byrd Machine in VA--which were pretty economically conservative.
Right to work happened after the South started shifting away from New Deal. In the 1930s they were economically progressive, if not outright progressive. Look at Glass-Steagall, amongst other bills. Most supported by the South to curb the Northern banks.

Anyway my overall point is that it's not fair to blame the Republicans; nor the Democrats.
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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2015, 09:37:56 pm »
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Also extremely important in the increasing prosperity in the South in this time period was outsourcing from the North to the cheaper, less unionized South.

I have to wonder how people who relocate to the South react when they find out they can't unionize. I'd be furious.
What are you talking about? You can unionize in the South.

Yes, but it's much harder than elsewhere, due to repressive "right-to-work" laws.
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« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2015, 10:20:20 pm »
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Also extremely important in the increasing prosperity in the South in this time period was outsourcing from the North to the cheaper, less unionized South.

I have to wonder how people who relocate to the South react when they find out they can't unionize. I'd be furious.
What are you talking about? You can unionize in the South.

Yes, but it's much harder than elsewhere, due to repressive "right-to-work" laws.
Yes, but they still can.
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« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2015, 10:28:30 pm »
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I have to wonder how people who relocate to the South react when they find out they can't unionize. I'd be furious.

They drink some sweet tea and think "hmm, good trade".
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« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2015, 02:15:16 pm »
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Looking at the electoral maps, it is possible to find these examples

New Orleans
Philadelphia
Chicago
Detroit
Austin

Los Angeles and San Francisco
Portland
Seattle (if we consider that the Pacific states are still conservative)
Since when are Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, and the west coast states conservative?  New Orleans and Austin are the only cities on this list that are in especially conservative states.  You can thank the University of Texas for making Austin a liberal city.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:17:30 pm by Oldiesfreak1854 »Logged

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« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2015, 04:48:19 pm »
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I'm not an expert on much of U.S history, but I am surprised here to read that most Southern Democratic Congressman supported the New Deal.  Didn't Roosevelt organize a slate of primary opponents against many of them in one cycle?

Via the wiki mayor's page.  37 of the 50 biggest cities have either elected Democratic mayors, independent mayors who are Democrats or one independent mayor who is backed by Democrats.  I believe San Diego is the largest city to have a Republican mayor.

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« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2015, 06:13:22 pm »
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I'm not an expert on much of U.S history, but I am surprised here to read that most Southern Democratic Congressman supported the New Deal.  Didn't Roosevelt organize a slate of primary opponents against many of them in one cycle?

Via the wiki mayor's page.  37 of the 50 biggest cities have either Democratic mayors, independent mayors who are known to support the Democrats or one independent mayor who is backed by Democrats.  I believe San Diego is the largest city to have a Republican mayor.



Even Faulconer is a very liberal Republican.  He is a supporter of gay marriage and he has also been active on issues such as poverty and homelessness, which are usually considered Democratic issues.
His position that is probably closer to that of the U.S. Republican party is his opposition to sales tax increases, but even that is a left-leaning position, since the sales' tax is a regressive tax that hurts lower income consumers more than it hurts the rich.
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« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2015, 06:27:14 pm »
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Is Albuquerque the biggest city with a Tea Party mayor?
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« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2015, 07:22:14 pm »
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Here is an article on Roosevelt's attempt to primary other Democrats:
http://prospect.org/article/frustrated-his-own-party-0
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« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2015, 07:22:22 pm »
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As much as I hate to admit it, the south grew a great deal more than the US average between the New Deal and 1980. Since, then it kind of just stagnated and the north has been able to grow much faster. Whether that's a good or bad thing and the causes of it can be debated - the US average itself is pretty consistent. Just the general rural nature of the region and large distances between cities has got to be part of it which is why they need public projects. They started off poorer through no fault of their own, but one party did help them catch up, and it's not the one they're voting for.

Of course there are hundreds of other problems and solutions. A stronger banking industry would have done wonders had they not opposed it for all of history. That would have countered some of the problems they face.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 07:25:45 pm by smilo »Logged

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« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2015, 09:45:26 pm »
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As much as I hate to admit it, the south grew a great deal more than the US average between the New Deal and 1980. Since, then it kind of just stagnated and the north has been able to grow much faster. Whether that's a good or bad thing and the causes of it can be debated - the US average itself is pretty consistent. Just the general rural nature of the region and large distances between cities has got to be part of it which is why they need public projects. They started off poorer through no fault of their own, but one party did help them catch up, and it's not the one they're voting for.

Of course there are hundreds of other problems and solutions. A stronger banking industry would have done wonders had they not opposed it for all of history. That would have countered some of the problems they face.

What parts of the South? Because huge swaths of it have seen humungous growth up until today--I don't generally think of, say, Williamson County, TN as a poor, declining place...
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« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2015, 09:59:04 pm »
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Oh, well, of course, the south has some good places - I was just generally speaking about the Southeast as a whole.



Of course, you couldn't expect the south to go up forever as you'd expect it to settle in at 100 (or just a bit under 100 for the reasons I mentioned above), but it really has failed to catch up at all, and the trend line starting in 1980 can't be just a coincidence especially when New England manages to do so well in that timeframe (private resources being diverted to states with strong banking systems due to deregulation).

And also just to clarify - I wasn't saying the South is in decline - just that its growth has been lagging since a specific revolutionary point in history.
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« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2015, 11:47:50 pm »
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California without 3rd world LA or SF would be a swing state.  Folks feel as if their voice does not matter in real CA

You are such a drone. It is as if you're living in a different universe, frankly.
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« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2015, 12:00:48 am »
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I'm not an expert on much of U.S history, but I am surprised here to read that most Southern Democratic Congressman supported the New Deal.  Didn't Roosevelt organize a slate of primary opponents against many of them in one cycle?

Via the wiki mayor's page.  37 of the 50 biggest cities have either Democratic mayors, independent mayors who are known to support the Democrats or one independent mayor who is backed by Democrats.  I believe San Diego is the largest city to have a Republican mayor.


Even Faulconer is a very liberal Republican.  He is a supporter of gay marriage and he has also been active on issues such as poverty and homelessness, which are usually considered Democratic issues.
His position that is probably closer to that of the U.S. Republican party is his opposition to sales tax increases, but even that is a left-leaning position, since the sales' tax is a regressive tax that hurts lower income consumers more than it hurts the rich.

I didn't know that about him. Although to be accurate, I don't know anything about him including his first name, I didn't even know his last name Smiley  That said, San Diego used to be a conservative Republican city with mayor Roger Hedgecock (or something like that) who I believe has guest hosted for Rush Dimbaugh.

Liberal Republicans in Democratic strongholds aren't extinct. Checking new Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker's web site, he's even more liberal than me on some issues.  If he actually governs like a liberal remains to be seen.
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« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2015, 05:55:40 pm »
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I'm not an expert on much of U.S history, but I am surprised here to read that most Southern Democratic Congressman supported the New Deal.
Yes, that's accurate.  It's also why most segregationists would never have joined the GOP after Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act; they saw the GOP as the party of wealthy elitists and Northeastern bankers, who they hated almost as much for their wealth as for their support of civil rights.
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« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2015, 06:10:53 pm »
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I'm not an expert on much of U.S history, but I am surprised here to read that most Southern Democratic Congressman supported the New Deal.  Didn't Roosevelt organize a slate of primary opponents against many of them in one cycle?

Why would he do that lol? The South was basically his main base of support.
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