SC strikes down NC gerrymander 5 - 3, Thomas joins liberal majority

[Gass3268]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

Yeah, my guess is the NCSC will force them.

[Nyvin]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

From what I can tell, the legislature doesn't have the authority by the NC constitution to cancel a governor's special session request.

[SoLongAtlas]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

From what I can tell, the legislature doesn't have the authority by the NC constitution to cancel a governor's special session request.

Send in the Guard. This NC nonsense is getting frivolous and anti-American by the day. It's not the first time this country has had to deal with southern rebels.

[krazen1211]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

From what I can tell, the legislature doesn't have the authority by the NC constitution to cancel a governor's special session request.

Send in the Guard. This NC nonsense is getting frivolous and anti-American by the day. It's not the first time this country has had to deal with southern rebels.

What NC nonsense?

The Democrat party gerrymandered the state of North Carolina for over 100 years. Did you think there would be no retaliation?

[jimrtex]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

The legislature has not been smacked down by the state courts in this cycle. Both the legislative and congressional maps were approved by the North Carolina Supreme Court. That was one of the issues in the recent SCOTUS case. The same plaintiffs lawyers filed the federal case after they lost the state case, but recruited a different set of plaintiffs. The SCOTUS came to the conclusion that state and federal trial courts might come to different conclusions based on the same evidence.

The North Carolina constitution forbids mid-decade redistricting of the legislature. It also requires the governor to consult with the Council of State before calling a special session. Renegade governor Roy Cooper sent an e-mail after he had already announced the special session, demanding that they acknowledge the e-mail. Two members of the Council of State told him the call was premature. The Attorney General responded, "acknowledge the e-mail".

The SCOTUS remanded the legislative redistricting case to the federal trial court regarding their order for 2017 elections saying that the reasoning of the trial court was so sparse that they could not evaluate the constitutionality of it. So Cooper is interfering with a federal court.

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

[jimrtex]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

From what I can tell, the legislature doesn't have the authority by the NC constitution to cancel a governor's special session request.

The General Assembly has an obligation to ignore an extra-constitutional action by the Governor. To not do so would violate their oath to uphold the North Carolina Constitution.

[Virginiá]

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

That would be a nakedly partisan move, and rather hypocritical coming from a legislature who previously convened their own special session under sketchy and possibly unconstitutional circumstances. Considering how power hungry Republicans in the GA have shown themselves to be over the years, I suppose you're right - that kind of move is not above them.

[jimrtex]

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

That would be a nakedly partisan move, and rather hypocritical coming from a legislature who previously convened their own special session under sketchy and possibly unconstitutional circumstances. Considering how power hungry Republicans in the GA have shown themselves to be over the years, I suppose you're right - that kind of move is not above them.

It is actually pretty bizarre that Cooper called the special session, since the General Assembly is in regular session. Maybe Cooper wanted to prevent public participation in the legislative process (the concurrent special session only lasted for 14 days). Cooper might be upset that in 2016 Republicans took control of the Council of State. I wonder if the Council of State may determine that part of the executive branch is acting irrationally and/or unconstitutionally.

It turns out that the SCOTUS has not even remanded the case to the federal district court. The plaintiffs  have filed a motion with the SCOTUS to do so.

[Nyvin]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

The legislature has not been smacked down by the state courts in this cycle. Both the legislative and congressional maps were approved by the North Carolina Supreme Court. That was one of the issues in the recent SCOTUS case. The same plaintiffs lawyers filed the federal case after they lost the state case, but recruited a different set of plaintiffs. The SCOTUS came to the conclusion that state and federal trial courts might come to different conclusions based on the same evidence.

The North Carolina constitution forbids mid-decade redistricting of the legislature. It also requires the governor to consult with the Council of State before calling a special session. Renegade governor Roy Cooper sent an e-mail after he had already announced the special session, demanding that they acknowledge the e-mail. Two members of the Council of State told him the call was premature. The Attorney General responded, "acknowledge the e-mail".

The SCOTUS remanded the legislative redistricting case to the federal trial court regarding their order for 2017 elections saying that the reasoning of the trial court was so sparse that they could not evaluate the constitutionality of it. So Cooper is interfering with a federal court.

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

The council of state is majority Republican so it's no surprise they'd vote no.   I find it pretty laughable that Cooper could be impeached for following a federal court's order to redraw the maps when the court order was issued months ago.   Last I knew the VRA overrules the NC constitution.

[Brittain33]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

The legislature has not been smacked down by the state courts in this cycle.

It looks like you're qualifying your statement to be about maps; I was speaking more generally, including extraconstitutional actions on issues like vote suppression, rewriting rules on the boards of elections and governor's powers, etc. The legislature has had to be corrected on a number of occasions.

Since we're talking about the legislature violating an order to meet in special session, a broader view is appropriate.

[jimrtex]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

The legislature has not been smacked down by the state courts in this cycle. Both the legislative and congressional maps were approved by the North Carolina Supreme Court. That was one of the issues in the recent SCOTUS case. The same plaintiffs lawyers filed the federal case after they lost the state case, but recruited a different set of plaintiffs. The SCOTUS came to the conclusion that state and federal trial courts might come to different conclusions based on the same evidence.

The North Carolina constitution forbids mid-decade redistricting of the legislature. It also requires the governor to consult with the Council of State before calling a special session. Renegade governor Roy Cooper sent an e-mail after he had already announced the special session, demanding that they acknowledge the e-mail. Two members of the Council of State told him the call was premature. The Attorney General responded, "acknowledge the e-mail".

The SCOTUS remanded the legislative redistricting case to the federal trial court regarding their order for 2017 elections saying that the reasoning of the trial court was so sparse that they could not evaluate the constitutionality of it. So Cooper is interfering with a federal court.

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

The council of state is majority Republican so it's no surprise they'd vote no.   I find it pretty laughable that Cooper could be impeached for following a federal court's order to redraw the maps when the court order was issued months ago.   Last I knew the VRA overrules the NC constitution.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The governor did not seek the advice of the Council of State. You may have given a political rationale for why the Governor attempted to circumvent the Constitution. Terry McAuliffe is not a member of the  North Carolina government, let alone the Council of State. Is the governor of North Carolina beholden to a foreign power?

The order by the federal district court to redistrict was stayed by the SCOTUS. The SCOTUS has vacated that order (see 'North Carolina v. Covington'), stating that the district court addressed the  issue in "only the most cursory fashion". (my emphasis).

Please read the last page and a half of the SCOTUS opinion of 'North Carolina v Covington'.

[jimrtex]

It is possible that Cooper could be impeached.

That would be a nakedly partisan move, and rather hypocritical coming from a legislature who previously convened their own special session under sketchy and possibly unconstitutional circumstances. Considering how power hungry Republicans in the GA have shown themselves to be over the years, I suppose you're right - that kind of move is not above them.

There are provisions in the North Carolina constitution for the legislature convening itself.

Are you familiar with the particular circumstances, or are you merely repeating something you read in a blog.

[jimrtex]

I wonder if the Council of State may determine that part of the executive branch is acting irrationally and/or unconstitutionally.

It turns out that the legislature has to make that determination. Has Cooper been hiking the Appalachian Trail lately? That is a sure sign of bad behavior by Carolina governors.

[Virginiá]

There are provisions in the North Carolina constitution for the legislature convening itself.

Are you familiar with the particular circumstances, or are you merely repeating something you read in a blog.

My point was that you were commenting about the way Cooper went about calling for one, and there were alleged issues about the way the legislature itself called one as McCrory was on his way out. There is a lawsuit for it right now: http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/state/nccapitol/2017/04/19/16653256/uid14926199693873-283135-Common_Cause_et_al_v._Dan_Forest_et_al.pdf

However, before you unload about how that lawsuit is frivolous or whatever, I'm not saying I even agree that the legislature is at fault in that particular case. I don't really know enough about the law or NC's constitution to make that conclusion, but it does seem rather obvious that Republicans acted absurd in the way they handled it, especially given the large changes they rammed through in just one day. This kind of behavior has become normal with them, as they regularly change the way the government works, with little-to-no debate, every time they think they may lose a little bit of power.

So I was just saying that when you mentioned the idea of impeachment, it sounded silly given how far NC Republicans have been bending the rules in their quest for power. To all of a sudden care about doing things properly and fairly when it is Cooper at the helm would be a tad bit hypocritical of North Carolina Republicans.

[jimrtex]

Roy Cooper called a special session to redraw the maps

https://governor-new.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/documents/files/Extra%20Session%20of%20the%20NC%20General%20Assembly.pdf

This seems to be for the legislative districts, or is it calling for the congressional map to be redrawn as well?

The legislature cancelled the special session, determining that the governor's purported order was unconstitutional.

I wonder if that will stand, given how many times the legislature has been smacked down by the state and federal courts for their poor understanding of constitutionality.

The legislature has not been smacked down by the state courts in this cycle.

It looks like you're qualifying your statement to be about maps; I was speaking more generally, including extraconstitutional actions on issues like vote suppression, rewriting rules on the boards of elections and governor's powers, etc. The legislature has had to be corrected on a number of occasions.

Since we're talking about the legislature violating an order to meet in special session, a broader view is appropriate.

You claimed that the legislature had been slapped down by federal and state courts. Since with regard to the current maps the North Carolina Supreme Court came to the opposite conclusion of the federal district court, and that this was an issue in the recent SCOTUS ruling, you may forgive me for thinking that we were discussing the current redistricting cycle.

In North Carolina, the governor does not have the unilateral authority to call a special session. It also violates the North Carolina Constitution to redistrict in special sessions. And 14 days is hardly enough time for the legislature to redistrict if there is going to be time to consult with the public, don't you agree. It really looks like Cooper was trying to do a Terry McAuliffe here.

The SCOTUS has vacated the federal court order to redistrict. Don't you think that it would be better to wait for the federal district court to make a decision that comports with SCOTUS opinions, before rushing forward.

[Nyvin]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:


6/9/2017

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http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

[Gass3268]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:


6/9/2017

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

I'm going to lol so hard if their maps end up being drawn by the courts.

[jimrtex]

There are provisions in the North Carolina constitution for the legislature convening itself.

Are you familiar with the particular circumstances, or are you merely repeating something you read in a blog.

My point was that you were commenting about the way Cooper went about calling for one, and there were alleged issues about the way the legislature itself called one as McCrory was on his way out. There is a lawsuit for it right now: http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/state/nccapitol/2017/04/19/16653256/uid14926199693873-283135-Common_Cause_et_al_v._Dan_Forest_et_al.pdf

However, before you unload about how that lawsuit is frivolous or whatever, I'm not saying I even agree that the legislature is at fault in that particular case. I don't really know enough about the law or NC's constitution to make that conclusion, but it does seem rather obvious that Republicans acted absurd in the way they handled it, especially given the large changes they rammed through in just one day. This kind of behavior has become normal with them, as they regularly change the way the government works, with little-to-no debate, every time they think they may lose a little bit of power.

So I was just saying that when you mentioned the idea of impeachment, it sounded silly given how far NC Republicans have been bending the rules in their quest for power. To all of a sudden care about doing things properly and fairly when it is Cooper at the helm would be a tad bit hypocritical of North Carolina Republicans.

Thank you. The lawsuit does does not allege that the manner in which the extra session called was unconstitutional. The lawsuit misstates the circumstances for an extra session. An extra session called by the governor requires extraordinary circumstances, and with the advice of the Council of State. An extra session simply requires signatures of 3/5 of the members of both chambers. The legislature was just wrapping up an extra session convened by the governor, which dealt specifically with hurricane relief, and since the legislature was in Raleigh it would have been easy enough to gather the signatures, and avoid leaving Raleigh.

The key parts of the legislation passed in the extra session was to require boards of election to have an even number of members, split between two parties. A tyrant of course would have preferred the old way where the majority was controlled by a single party. The other change was to prevent the Board of Elections from enacting a redistricting plan. North Carolina legislators were likely aware of McAuliffe's shenanigans in Virginia.

[jimrtex]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:

6/9/2017

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

The August 15, 2016 order has been vacated by the SCOTUS. North Carolina sought a stay of that order, which the SCOTUS granted. It appears that the federal court is disregarding what the SCOTUS said in their opinion.

When the legislature resolved that Cooper's order was unconstitutional, they noted that the remand from the SCOTUS has not been formalized, a point which the federal district court has confirmed. And by the way, the August 15 order said that the General Assembly should pass new districts during a regular session.

[Nyvin]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:

6/9/2017

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

The August 15, 2016 order has been vacated by the SCOTUS. North Carolina sought a stay of that order, which the SCOTUS granted. It appears that the federal court is disregarding what the SCOTUS said in their opinion.

When the legislature resolved that Cooper's order was unconstitutional, they noted that the remand from the SCOTUS has not been formalized, a point which the federal district court has confirmed. And by the way, the August 15 order said that the General Assembly should pass new districts during a regular session.

Which they failed to do so by the required date...

[jimrtex]

There are provisions in the North Carolina constitution for the legislature convening itself.

Are you familiar with the particular circumstances, or are you merely repeating something you read in a blog.

My point was that you were commenting about the way Cooper went about calling for one, and there were alleged issues about the way the legislature itself called one as McCrory was on his way out. There is a lawsuit for it right now: http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/state/nccapitol/2017/04/19/16653256/uid14926199693873-283135-Common_Cause_et_al_v._Dan_Forest_et_al.pdf

However, before you unload about how that lawsuit is frivolous or whatever, I'm not saying I even agree that the legislature is at fault in that particular case. I don't really know enough about the law or NC's constitution to make that conclusion, but it does seem rather obvious that Republicans acted absurd in the way they handled it, especially given the large changes they rammed through in just one day. This kind of behavior has become normal with them, as they regularly change the way the government works, with little-to-no debate, every time they think they may lose a little bit of power.

So I was just saying that when you mentioned the idea of impeachment, it sounded silly given how far NC Republicans have been bending the rules in their quest for power. To all of a sudden care about doing things properly and fairly when it is Cooper at the helm would be a tad bit hypocritical of North Carolina Republicans.

Thank you. The lawsuit does does not allege that the manner in which the extra session called was unconstitutional. The lawsuit misstates the circumstances for an extra session. An extra session called by the governor requires extraordinary circumstances, and with the advice of the Council of State. An extra session simply requires signatures of 3/5 of the members of both chambers. The legislature was just wrapping up an extra session convened by the governor, which dealt specifically with hurricane relief, and since the legislature was in Raleigh it would have been easy enough to gather the signatures, and avoid leaving Raleigh.

The key parts of the legislation passed in the extra session was to require boards of election to have an even number of members, split between two parties. A tyrant of course would have preferred the old way where the majority was controlled by a single party. The other change was to prevent the Board of Elections from enacting a redistricting plan. North Carolina legislators were likely aware of McAuliffe's shenanigans in Virginia.

It seems that a court blocked part of the bill that this new (April complaint was about). The General Assembly passed a new bill, which Governor Cooper vetoed, and the legislature overrode.

This makes the timing interesting. Did the plaintiffs have an opportunity to instruct their legislators with respect to SB 68 (2017).

[jimrtex]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:

6/9/2017

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

The August 15, 2016 order has been vacated by the SCOTUS. North Carolina sought a stay of that order, which the SCOTUS granted. It appears that the federal court is disregarding what the SCOTUS said in their opinion.

When the legislature resolved that Cooper's order was unconstitutional, they noted that the remand from the SCOTUS has not been formalized, a point which the federal district court has confirmed. And by the way, the August 15 order said that the General Assembly should pass new districts during a regular session.

Which they failed to do so by the required date...

What was the required date under the order that was stayed by the SCOTUS, and has subsequently been vacated by the SCOTUS?

[Nyvin]

Sounds like the district court has just about had it with all of the NCGOP's games:

6/9/2017

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/Covington-Notice.pdf

The August 15, 2016 order has been vacated by the SCOTUS. North Carolina sought a stay of that order, which the SCOTUS granted. It appears that the federal court is disregarding what the SCOTUS said in their opinion.

When the legislature resolved that Cooper's order was unconstitutional, they noted that the remand from the SCOTUS has not been formalized, a point which the federal district court has confirmed. And by the way, the August 15 order said that the General Assembly should pass new districts during a regular session.

Which they failed to do so by the required date...

What was the required date blahblahblahblahblahblah?

March 15th 2017

[SoLongAtlas]

Have the courts draw the lines and if they are rebuffed or refused, send in the Guard to uphold them during a GE. The NC state house and Senate have gone rogue/full Confederate at this point.

[Virginiá]

The key parts of the legislation passed in the extra session was to require boards of election to have an even number of members, split between two parties. A tyrant of course would have preferred the old way where the majority was controlled by a single party. The other change was to prevent the Board of Elections from enacting a redistricting plan. North Carolina legislators were likely aware of McAuliffe's shenanigans in Virginia.

A tyrant? Really? Say what you will about that particular power structure but it is hardly deserving of that name. I'm not sure on the extent of the election board's powers with redistricting but part of my main reason for caring about that particular bill was the GOP's incessant need to control every aspect of elections in a state whose electorate isn't even that Republican-leaning, but rather just heavily polarized. Republicans also passed that bill in part to make sure Cooper couldn't have any final say over early voting plans, something they were fine with so long as it was a Republican in the Govs mansion. They would rather put the election boards into gridlock and default to 1 site per county than put an early voting sites at universities.

However if you want to talk about tyranny, perhaps you should also consider the way the Republican majority, artificially inflated by unconstitutional maps, has been acting. Shifting power around every time they lose a little, no matter how much it pushes the boundaries of what is allowed, sounds more like "tyranny" to me. NC Republicans are acting as if Democrats do not even have the right to hold power in that state, and that any power they do hold is simply because Republicans haven't found a way to legally invalidate it yet. All of this in what is essentially a closely-divided state.