POTUS to Abbas: YOU TRICKED ME! THE ISRAELIS HAVE SHOWN ME HOW YOU ROLL!

[Shadows]

Lol ! Israelis showed him? Apart from Saudi & other radical theocratic Islamic nations, Israel under Netanyahu is one of the worst states in the world when it comes to human rights & Israel today is opposed by almost every single country in the world for it's illegal occupation & settlements.

You can't take about Saudi only when mentioning the human rights abuses, there have been killings of innocents & 50 year occupation & internationally illegal settlement done by the Israelis. Trump will obviously be fed the right wing Israeli propaganda machine! He has no sympathy for the 100's of 1000's of Palestine people who are homeless/refugees/driven out & the millions living under occupation (with fear of being killed) under a rule where they have no control!

[The Mikado]

That's pretty fast. Obama didn't find out at all. Well, either that, or he just didn't mind them killing Jews.

More like U.S. politics has this unhealthy belief that our presidents can magickally bring peace to any area of the world if they just try hard enough.  Neither side has much interest in peace right now, largely because neither side believes the other has much interest in peace.  So yeah, if Trump/Tillerson end up not wasting time trying to accomplish something that they can't do, they'll be one up on Obama/Kerry.  Clinton never seemed to pay more than the minimum lip service to finding Mideast peace, but Kerry acted as if he really believed he could do something.

Yeah, neither party has any particular interest in peace at the moment, and Israel especially sees more of an upside to letting the conflict continue in terms of how much land they can grab in settlements.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

isn't Abbas like three-hundred years old at this stage?

[Santander]

isn't Abbas like three-hundred years old at this stage?

You know what they say about Palestinian refugees... they never die.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

i am pretty sure abbas is a huckster but i am as usual irritated, how easy it is to influence trump.

Any nation that isn't making an effort to influence the easily led Trump is failing their due diligence as a government.

[Angel of Death]

isn't Abbas like three-hundred years old at this stage?

You know what they say about Palestinian refugees... they never die.

Still younger than Jews that "returned" home after two millennia.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

[Classic Conservative]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

And hopefully it will remain so for the rest of time.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

And hopefully it will remain so for the rest of time.

So #edgy.

[SATW]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

Literally the dumbest argument ever. "I have a black friend, therefore I'm not racist!" FTR, you are far from an antisemite, so anyone accusing you of this is being melodramatic.

Also, your complete lack of knowledge on Jewish DNA is hilarious. Almost every Jew has some sort of DNA connection to the Middle East. Including Ashkenazi Jews.

I think Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews have the least strong connection to the Middle East, but it is still there.

I'm a Mizrahi/Sephardic Jew (aka unquestionable connections to the region), so get out of here with your "no ties to the middle east" nonsense.

Also, as both of us know, there has been a history of trying to partition the land for two peoples, two states. The Arabs, however, screwed you guys over by illegally invading Israel in 1948-1949.

They further screwed you over by refusing to grant you your own state in Gaza and the West Bank anywhere during 1949-1967. But, please, tell me more how Israel is to blame for all of your problems

[SATW]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

And hopefully it will remain so for the rest of time.

You are not helping.

1. Israel isn't a colonial state.
2. Israel isn't a European state.


I appreciate your strong support for Israel but please don't fall into the Anti-Israel clown car's traps. I can provide you with some good comebacks against their B.S. if you would like

[SATW]

FTR - as always, I am open to discussing the peace process and my views on it. I like to think that on this topic that I have opened myself up to debate more than any other topic.

My main principles and views:

- I am a Zionist, in the mold of Ze'ev Jabotinsky and Menachem Begin
- I am a moderate on social/religious issues in Israel. (I support LGBT rights, I support a balance between secular and Orthodox Jewish interests. I support very limited concessions to theologically liberal Jewish denominations.)
- I am a far-right winger on Israeli economic issues. (Free Market economics is very foreign in Israel, as its history is tied to social democratic policies and, formerly, socialist politics. )
- I am a Likud-style hawk on National Security and Middle East Peace
- I am, generally, center to center-right on the Settlements (meaning, I support the Settlements, generally, but from a secular/strategic viewpoint and not a religious one, which means I'm more willing to give up land for peace than some other right-wingers.)
- I am very much in favor of keeping Jerusalem as Israel's united and undivided capital. I take this view from a religious and strategic viewpoint. Israel cannot be representative of Judaism and Jewishness without the Old City. Israel is also the best party to safeguard religious rights for ALL religions in East Jerusalem + the Old City.
 

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Well, this thread went to **** on page two as soon as the denialists and libelers stepped in.

We know you want us spread out in the diaspora so we can't put up a fight. That's why it's never happening again.

you mean like what your people did to mine and stole our land? where my family home is now an Israeli family lives while I still own the key to that property my grandfather was kicked out of? You have no blood ties to that land you just use a religious fantasy to claim to it, I have actual DNA ties to the land. I highly doubt someone of European descent does.

And before the trolls and butthurt Pro-Israeli's come and accuse me of hating Jews, no I don't my former fiance was Jewish.

Israel is the final product of European occupation and colonization of my people and the rest of the Arab world that still remains.

Literally the dumbest argument ever. "I have a black friend, therefore I'm not racist!" FTR, you are far from an antisemite, so anyone accusing you of this is being melodramatic.

Also, your complete lack of knowledge on Jewish DNA is hilarious. Almost every Jew has some sort of DNA connection to the Middle East. Including Ashkenazi Jews.

I think Ethiopian Jews and Indian Jews have the least strong connection to the Middle East, but it is still there.

I'm a Mizrahi/Sephardic Jew (aka unquestionable connections to the region), so get out of here with your "no ties to the middle east" nonsense.

Also, as both of us know, there has been a history of trying to partition the land for two peoples, two states. The Arabs, however, screwed you guys over by illegally invading Israel in 1948-1949.

They further screwed you over by refusing to grant you your own state in Gaza and the West Bank anywhere during 1949-1967. But, please, tell me more how Israel is to blame for all of your problems

I'm sure you love repeating the tired sorry excuse for an argument by the Zionists. You guys were welcomed on our land as guests, we don't need "our own state" we need the state we already have that you guys stole from us with your stupid religious superiority claims.

You claim as a Mizrahi (which don't get me started on how vile your group is with your nonsensical Anti-Arab mentality) to have ties to MY land, do you have any pre-1948 ties to it? Any land, family anything? Cause I can, hundreds of years actually. Yes, I am fully aware of how the other Arab nations used us for political goals and I still have resentment to them over it, but Israel has a responsibility as well and as long as they continue to blame US for it all, nothing will get solved.

You right-wingers haven't helped much in recent years to even come to the table to talk about a possible solution, instead the hack Netanyahu claims every single one of us, including those of us in exile are threats, the hatred continues today because your side continues to corner us into pockets in the Gaza Strip and West Bank while continuing to take our land to add to your JEWISH ONLY Settlements. I have family that your supposed country forced into Gaza during the 67 war who are not allowed to leave or reunite with our family in the West Bank, same as millions of others. the life in Gaza is atrocious and Israel allows it because you're afraid the supplies will go to Hamas, the people only picked Hamas because of Israel. Zionism is a joke and a fraud that needs to be exposed for what it is. the Jewish people are not an ethnicity but a religious group and it's high damn time the world finally realizes it. I have once tried to visit my families land, I am not even allowed entry to my ancestral land because your supposed country views me, as a Palestinian American as a threat.

Don't be all white knighty and claim it's all on US, your side has been on record MANY TIMES over the years about exterminating my people to make way for your chosen kind. Until you accept my peoples right of return like most other nations, I will continue to have nothing but contempt for Israel and its people.

For the most part, Pre-Israel, and I won't deny anything, it was mostly ok between Jews and Arabs in the land, there should NEVER have been a partition in the first place, it should have been ONE state for BOTH people, not a Jewish state or Arab state, especially when WE were the native ones.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

And sunrise, don't tell me Israel isn't a colonist state, that is a lie, it was. It was designed to bring Jews in in droves and eventually turn the land into a Jewish state, your own founders even admitted that.

[SATW]

1. Literally no Jewish Zionist on this website, or any that I associate with in real life, has ever called for the extermination of the Palestinians. So end your delusional ranting right there. You are speaking to mainstream Zionists, not Kahanists or JDL-supporters.

2. Of course you wanted a binational state, because Jews did sooo well culturally with dhimmi status in other Muslim-ruled countries These very same host countries will continue to claim that Jews had it just great and dandy under their rule but always leave out that there were certain caveats and restrictions on the Jews (and Christians) in those countries. A Binational state would have never have worked, and you know it. Perfect example of Dhimmi status hurting Jews: Morocco's monarchy has good relations w/ Jews, but the average Moroccan hates most Jews.

3. I don't have to prove that my family owned land anywhere. You brought up DNA/blood ties and you brought up ties to the land. You didn't specify what you meant by this and you will look foolish if you want to move the goal posts on defining that term. My family might not have had land in Pre-Modern state Israel, but countless of other families did (During Ottoman rule and Pre-Ottoman rule). This includes mizrahi and ashkenazi families.

Areas like Tel Aviv (est. 1909) were pretty much spaces of nothing before Jewish settlement. And again, a lot of these places were legitimate due to those pieces of land were either owned by the Ottomans (later sold by Jews) or were populated under British rule after the fall of the Ottoman empire.

There was never a country called Palestine, it was a geographic area and a British mandate. Palestinians are virtually distinguishable from other Arab populations in the region. It is not its own separate ethnicity. However, it is pretty much recognized that a national identity had formed AFTER 1949 (particularly in the 1960s).

There were Jews and Zionists who identified under the "Palestinian" moniker during and immediately after WW2, due to it being the name of the British mandate/Geographic area.

So, I find it funny that Palestinians are falsely accusing Jews of not being a nation. We are an ethnic religion. It is well documented fact. And unlike the Palestinians, we have thousands of years of evidence to prove our religion and our ethnicity. You, yourself, admitted it by differentiating Ashkenazi and Mizrahi. If Jews weren't an ethnicity, it would be ridiculous to differentiate the two as they aren't denominations of Judaism. An Orthodox Ashkenazi Jew can pray at an Orthodox Mizrahi/Sephardic Synagogue and vice versa.

4. Colonization, often times, is used as a term to attack people who took over an area to which they had virtually no ties too. As I already mentioned, this doesn't apply to Zionists or Jews as we all have a historical, religious, cultural and DNA-based tie to the Middle East, Jerusalem, Hebron and other areas.

We had every right to try and bring in Jews during a time of cultural and political persecution of Jews (which, of course, Arabs contributed too, via dhimmi laws and also through Muftis aligned with Hitler). but even (ESPECIALLY) without the holocaust we had a right to do so as there was no country on this land. It was a territory that has been passed around from empire to empire.

5. Your irrational hatred of Israel is a perfect example of why the Palestinians don't have a state. We had lost our country and homeland for thousands of years and were not bitter. We were vanquished into obscurity for centuries and were discriminated against for almost as much time. We did not let our bad past stop us from having a prosperous future. The Palestinians are doing the exact opposite. You have had MANY opportunities to have your own state and your corrupt, terroristic leadership has burdened you by rejecting each offer for peace and statehood.

6. LOL at accusing Israeli settlements of being purist. MANY Palestinian leaders have claimed that they want a Jew-less Palestinian state. This is very well documented. Nothing is stopping Israeli-Arabs from moving to Israeli settlements. Literally nothing. But, non-citizen Arabs, of course, have no right to move into settlements.

Citation: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-settlements-idUSKBN0JL0D620141207 (this actually claims that non-citizen Arabs are moving in as well, interestingly enough.)

Citation: http://www.weeklystandard.com/what-the-plo-ambassador-said-about-removing-jews-from-a-palestinian-state/article/594117 This is in comparison to Israel, who in almost every proposal, has never claimed to want to cleanse its borders of Arabs. Maybe one politician or party may have said it here and there, but no major politician has proposed to throw out every Arab from Israel after a finalized peace process. Only the Palestinians have said that...about Jews.

7. On people losing their land during the War of Independence: It is a sad reality of almost every conflict in literally almost every war. Like I said, Arab nations screwed over the Palestinians by invading Israel. Some willingly left their lands hoping the Jews would lose, others ran away once Israel beat our Arab armies in their cities, others were forced out as a consequence of war.

8. Hamas is only responsible for the suffering of Gazan Palestinians. Israel withdrew in 2005. Hamas, after being elected, decided to further engage in terrorism. Hamas decided to invest in terrorism instead of economics, culture and living standards/environmental sustainability. Denying this is tantamount to defending the actions of a terrorist organization. Israel didn't force Hamas to launch rockets into Israel. Hamas did that on its own.

9. Palestinians are not barred from entering Israel. This is a blatant lie. Many Palestinians work in Israel at Israeli businesses, and like ALL Israelis (including Jews), go through legitimate security checkpoints.

10. Finally, your ridiculous claim that you welcomed us as "guests." If a conservative opposed to legal or illegal immigration said this he or she would be called a bigot. And, also, as discussed, you didn't get to decide who was or who wasn't a guest or permanent resident. There was no country called Palestine.

[DavidB.]

I sincerely hope your family in Gaza can leave that place soon, LibertarianRepublican.

Otherwise I don't really have time for this, I guess. Sunrise has made the point way better than I could. Will think of haters like you when again assisting in making the settlements grow and flourish, though!

[SATW]

When the Palestinian government sanctions and supports the blowing up of random Sbarros and businesses, I can't say its hard to understand why Israelis have been becoming less optimistic about the future of the peace process.

Last I checked, Israel doesn't pay the family of Baruch Goldstein (a terrorist) while Abbas approves payments to the families of terrorists who attack Jews and other Israelis.

That being said, of course, some of these views are not good things, but it was only ~20 years when a vast majority of Israelis were marching for peace in Tel Aviv and other cities.

All the while Arafat was playing them all for fools.

Yes, many Israeli Jews don't want to live near Arabs because at the same time many Israeli Arabs want to see the destruction of Israel and also self-segregate themselves into cities with little to no Jewish populations.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/middle-east/137783-170216-poll-reveals-majority-of-israelis-palestinians-in-favor-of-two-state-solution

A majority of Israelis still support a two-state solution, and a large amount of Palestinians do as well. So, your claim that there will never be peace is not based on anything.

[DavidB.]

All Israeli high school kids have gotten from Arabs is war and terrorism. A 15-year old child from Sderot knows no better than having to go to the shelter all the time. If I lived there I could imagine myself starting to hate those responsible for it too. And don't tell me it's only Hamas. Attacks on Jews are widely supported in Palestinian society.

Israelis have always tried to make conditions for Arabs better, and it has always been rewarded with more terror and more war. Blaming Israelis for wanting to stay alive is not really going to fly with me. Perhaps you'll have more luck with other Europeans though!

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

All Israeli high school kids have gotten from Arabs is war and terrorism. A 15-year old child from Sderot knows no better than having to go to the shelter all the time. If I lived there I could imagine myself starting to hate those responsible for it too. And don't tell me it's only Hamas. Attacks on Jews are widely supported in Palestinian society.

Israelis have always tried to make conditions for Arabs better, and it has always been rewarded with more terror and more war. Blaming Israelis for wanting to stay alive is not really going to fly with me. Perhaps you'll have more luck with other Europeans though!

A.) I'm fully aware of that Palestinian society's views even Palestinian Christians hold those views and I never agreed with that, my grandfather does, but I certainty don't.  And forcing us to live in just the Gaza Strip and shrinking territory in the West Bank and then telling us to call Jordan as Palestine and all move there doesn't fly with me because some Jews have religious priority over my ancestors land means nothing to me. It's why I am starting to have a harder and harder time trusting Israelis and Jews.

Forcing us to live in tiny amounts of land while your side gobbles up more and more...yeah sure that is helping, thanks for the kind help! Tell Bibi we sent our regards!

[DavidB.]

I'm not even accusing you of anything, just laying out the facts from an Israeli perspective. Though if you have a hard time trusting Jews you may have some issues... I'm not a Netanyahu supporter, so you may wish to find someone else to send him your regards.

[SATW]

I'm not even accusing you of anything, just laying out the facts from an Israeli perspective. Though if you have a hard time trusting Jews you may have some issues... I'm not a Netanyahu supporter, so you may wish to find someone else to send him your regards.

I like how #TSA ignores that barely any new settlements have actually been built. It's just been continued construction in settlements have already been in existence.

But, #TSA is not interested in a solution, regardless of the settlement situation. I've debated many people, in person and online, on this topic and he's in the majority of those I've debated that jumping all over the place logically.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I'm not even accusing you of anything, just laying out the facts from an Israeli perspective. Though if you have a hard time trusting Jews you may have some issues... I'm not a Netanyahu supporter, so you may wish to find someone else to send him your regards.

I don't have any issues thanks for that though when you are told by Israeli after Israeli after Jew after Jew that your side of the argument means nothing, yeah, you start to trust less and less. I know my side has issues, a large amount of us want to end this conflict as much as you do, maybe if Israel would also look at things from our point of view and we get rid of Hamas, maybe there would be a chance of dialogue, but it's not going to happen with Netanyahu and Abbas.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I'm not even accusing you of anything, just laying out the facts from an Israeli perspective. Though if you have a hard time trusting Jews you may have some issues... I'm not a Netanyahu supporter, so you may wish to find someone else to send him your regards.

I like how #TSA ignores that barely any new settlements have actually been built. It's just been continued construction in settlements have already been in existence.

But, #TSA is not interested in a solution, regardless of the settlement situation. I've debated many people, in person and online, on this topic and he's in the majority of those I've debated that jumping all over the place logically.

When did I state I wasn't interested in a solution? Never once have I said that. The settlement contruction needs to stop, it shouldn't have been started in the first place, that is a big contentious point between us and the Israeli's is the continued growth in the settlement communities.

[DavidB.]

I think you're a good guy who means well and I don't think it's particularly fruitful to have this little discussion go on for longer. Ramadan mubarak and goodnight.