Do left-liberals neglect the importance of families?
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  Do left-liberals neglect the importance of families?
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Author Topic: Do left-liberals neglect the importance of families?  (Read 1611 times)
All Along The Watchtower
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« on: May 30, 2017, 04:52:49 PM »

Yes. How else could the Republican Party have successfully monopolized (however wrong or misleading they may be) "family values?"

Family, community, history, tradition, and morality are important to (most) people, as it turns out.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 04:57:23 PM »

Nah. Liberals usually live like conservatives after they turn 30.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 05:00:04 PM »
« Edited: May 30, 2017, 05:01:43 PM by Technocratic Timmy »

Somewhat.

By most metrics, those pesky millennials who vote for Democrats actually show higher social metrics than did the Republican baby bloomer youth. And some of these metrics are exactly what conservatives like to see: reductions in teen pregnancy rates, crime rates, increased graduation rates, etc.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 05:00:36 PM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.
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shua
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 08:29:22 PM »
« Edited: May 30, 2017, 08:32:39 PM by shua »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 09:00:23 PM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.

Creating families is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family?
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shua
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 09:08:53 PM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.

Creating families is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family?

Monetizing parenthood into a commercial exchange can be an example of neglecting it's importance, yes, just as prostitution neglects the true importance of sexuality.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2017, 09:42:47 PM »

Maybe the left could do a better job at explaining how many Republican policies hurt families, such as how gutting the safety net makes it extremely difficult for poor parents to provide for their small children.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 10:57:51 PM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.

Creating families is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family?

Monetizing parenthood into a commercial exchange can be an example of neglecting it's importance, yes, just as prostitution neglects the true importance of sexuality.

This metaphor only makes sense if you consider biological parenthood a necessity to be a person in the family. This should obviously be the most critical item on the agenda.

Anyway, liberal policies far from ignore the importance of families and really look to entirely benefit them in a way no Republican can. Anything said to the contrary is racialized rhetoric. Even college loan policies play an obvious role in family values in that it is hard if not impossible to start a family with that cloud hanging over you! And that's before we even get into SNAP funding and all the other necessities that Republicans wish to do away with to literally starve underclass families out.
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 02:36:02 AM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.

I am sure that you will be shouted at for saying this, but I was taken aback by this example as well.

It is extremely disturbing to see this conversation, which is ostensibly about how liberals should think about "family values" as of 2017, turn to the suggestion that we use tax subsidies to coerce poor women into becoming rentable wombs.

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family. So yeah, while we should regulate this business to make sure there's no exploitation, we need to help gay couples if they want to establishb a family. Right now, it's a privilege for rich couples.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 06:46:48 AM »

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family.
I agree with the first, but how can the second ever be a "right"?
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mencken
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 07:36:35 AM »

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family.
I agree with the first, but how can the second ever be a "right"?

Leftist ideology is the negation of oppressive barriers such as reality.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 07:46:49 AM »

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family.
I agree with the first, but how can the second ever be a "right"?

Well, I should have worded it differently. But yeah, imo, society should strive to help those who want a biological family achieve it. Not everyone feels comfortable with soley adopting their children.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 10:11:35 AM »

A bit. Liberals need to fight harder for issues like subsidizing surrogate mothers for gay couples and allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

Government paying mothers to give their children to someone else is a perfect example of neglecting the importance of family.   Privileging funding for child care outside the home over supporting parents in caring for children at home is a less extreme example of this.

I am sure that you will be shouted at for saying this, but I was taken aback by this example as well.

It is extremely disturbing to see this conversation, which is ostensibly about how liberals should think about "family values" as of 2017, turn to the suggestion that we use tax subsidies to coerce poor women into becoming rentable wombs.

Exactly. Surrogacy is a fantastic example of limousine liberalism. No concern for the poor or working class at all.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 10:27:03 AM »

From my socially conservative standpoint, the left's problem isn't ignoring families, it's promoting a very narrow vision of what a family is. One gets the impression from many left-liberal activists that the ideal family has 1-2 kids, lives in a city, and has both parents working full time.

For example, almost all the family/childcare policy I've heard from the centre left lately is based around making paid childcare more affordable and increasing female labour force participation. The mother who wants to stay home or work part time or have four kids is ignored. Similar themes are found in urban planning. I agree car culture has run amok as the next liberal, but I can't quite shake the notion that for some leftish folks that we're all supposed to live in 1 bedroom condos in downtown highrises.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 10:28:26 AM »

Please Al, no one is forcing the surrogates to go through this to survive. This is an act of kindness much like donating blood. The fact that they are compensated at all to induce an act of goodness ought to be more than enough. In fact, perhaps it is even closer to an organ donation, which serves as a moral obligation so people are guaranteed their rights (to life). But seeing as how people do not care about moral obligations, a payment may just be needed to make that a reality, in this market particularly.

All I can say is thank the good Lord for my employer and my proximity to Delaware, the land of the (relatively) free rather than most anywhere else in this regressive nation, and most especially in totally backwards Europe.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 10:45:28 AM »

From my socially conservative standpoint, the left's problem isn't ignoring families, it's promoting a very narrow vision of what a family is. One gets the impression from many left-liberal activists that the ideal family has 1-2 kids, lives in a city, and has both parents working full time.

For example, almost all the family/childcare policy I've heard from the centre left lately is based around making paid childcare more affordable and increasing female labour force participation. The mother who wants to stay home or work part time or have four kids is ignored. Similar themes are found in urban planning. I agree car culture has run amok as the next liberal, but I can't quite shake the notion that for some leftish folks that we're all supposed to live in 1 bedroom condos in downtown highrises.

I find this very interesting, since I imagine most socially liberal people would say the same thing about social conservatives.
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 02:52:02 PM »

Not everyone feels comfortable with soley adopting their children.

The idea that biomedical policy should revolve around some people's "discomfort" with adoption is ludicrous, especially considering that that "discomfort" is in large part due to the sort of stigma that you'd expect liberals to be against.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 03:13:43 PM »

From my socially conservative standpoint, the left's problem isn't ignoring families, it's promoting a very narrow vision of what a family is. One gets the impression from many left-liberal activists that the ideal family has 1-2 kids, lives in a city, and has both parents working full time.

For example, almost all the family/childcare policy I've heard from the centre left lately is based around making paid childcare more affordable and increasing female labour force participation. The mother who wants to stay home or work part time or have four kids is ignored. Similar themes are found in urban planning. I agree car culture has run amok as much as the next liberal, but I can't quite shake the notion that for some leftish folks that we're all supposed to live in 1 bedroom condos in downtown highrises.

I find this very interesting, since I imagine most socially liberal people would say the same thing about social conservatives.

Sure, but then social conservatives are pretty open about their opinion that some lifestyles are better than others. I've seen parts of the far left, some feminists and a few libertines own that idea, but it doesn't appear to have seeped into the mainstream left.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2017, 04:44:18 PM »

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family. So yeah, while we should regulate this business to make sure there's no exploitation, we need to help gay couples if they want to establishb a family. Right now, it's a privilege for rich couples.

Rich couples, gay or straight, should not be allowed to buy children out of some unfortunate woman's womb either. You cannot regulate that which is inherently exploitive into not being so.

This is the first time that I've ever heard someone claim a "right to a biological family." The idea perplexes me.

What's with this idea that women could never be okay with having a baby for others who can't have one themselves?
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shua
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« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 05:34:49 PM »

I'm of the opinion that gay couples should be able to create their own families, and they should also have a right for a biological family. So yeah, while we should regulate this business to make sure there's no exploitation, we need to help gay couples if they want to establishb a family. Right now, it's a privilege for rich couples.

Rich couples, gay or straight, should not be allowed to buy children out of some unfortunate woman's womb either. You cannot regulate that which is inherently exploitive into not being so.

This is the first time that I've ever heard someone claim a "right to a biological family." The idea perplexes me.

What's with this idea that women could never be okay with having a baby for others who can't have one themselves?

Sure, they might.  But keep out the pressure placed on them to do so by contracts or getting paid to do it.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2017, 08:21:57 PM »

From my socially conservative standpoint, the left's problem isn't ignoring families, it's promoting a very narrow vision of what a family is. One gets the impression from many left-liberal activists that the ideal family has 1-2 kids, lives in a city, and has both parents working full time.

For example, almost all the family/childcare policy I've heard from the centre left lately is based around making paid childcare more affordable and increasing female labour force participation. The mother who wants to stay home or work part time or have four kids is ignored. Similar themes are found in urban planning. I agree car culture has run amok as the next liberal, but I can't quite shake the notion that for some leftish folks that we're all supposed to live in 1 bedroom condos in downtown highrises.

Conservative Republicans are the ones who are demanding that mothers work outside the home in order to receive social assistance.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 08:36:35 PM »

Republicans use "family values" to mean women staying in the house, abortion and contraception not existing, and gays not getting married. Families don't seem to be a political issue otherwise.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2017, 08:38:01 PM »

Both sides do it.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2017, 03:21:55 PM »

From my socially conservative standpoint, the left's problem isn't ignoring families, it's promoting a very narrow vision of what a family is. One gets the impression from many left-liberal activists that the ideal family has 1-2 kids, lives in a city, and has both parents working full time.

For example, almost all the family/childcare policy I've heard from the centre left lately is based around making paid childcare more affordable and increasing female labour force participation. The mother who wants to stay home or work part time or have four kids is ignored. Similar themes are found in urban planning. I agree car culture has run amok as the next liberal, but I can't quite shake the notion that for some leftish folks that we're all supposed to live in 1 bedroom condos in downtown highrises.

Conservative Republicans are the ones who are demanding that mothers work outside the home in order to receive social assistance.

Paul Ryan is not the be all and end all of social conservatism. You're starting to sound like Link.
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