Is Shadows a Russian/east-Euro paid troll?

[Adam Griffin]

Think about it. He's been on my radar for awhile now.

He basically is constantly contorting himself into a position of criticizing "establishment Dems" while defending "progressives" (even when so-called progressives are guilty of the same things and/or the positions are inverted), posts in quasi-press release form on the forum constantly and just loves to go round-and-round with anybody and is a classic concern troll. He's also not a native English speaker and his way of speaking strikes me as quintessentially east-Euro.

Considering the very large and documented extent of paid trolls and the usage of bots all across the web during the election and afterward, is it such a stretch to think that there's at least one of them targeting our board? I mean, if they infest random local newspapers' comments sections and cretinous Facebook feeds, it seems like this would be a prime target by comparison.

Take a good read through his posting history if you're not familiar.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Lean no, but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be one.  #ModerateHero

[This account no longer in use.]

The time to post this was before the primaries ended, when Shadows was a legitimately bad poster.

[NOVA Green]

Think about it. He's been on my radar for awhile now.

He basically is constantly contorting himself into a position of criticizing "establishment Dems" while defending "progressives" (even when so-called progressives are guilty of the same things and/or the positions are inverted), posts in quasi-press release form on the forum constantly and just loves to go round-and-round with anybody and is a classic concern troll. He's also not a native English speaker and his way of speaking strikes me as quintessentially east-Euro.

Considering the very large and documented extent of paid trolls and the usage of bots all across the web during the election and afterward, is it such a stretch to think that there's at least one of them targeting our board? I mean, if they infest random local newspapers' comments sections and cretinous Facebook feeds, it seems like this would be a prime target by comparison.

Take a good read through his posting history if you're not familiar.

Former President Griffin---

This is a very serious allegation, that potentially international posters on Atlas might be foreign agents targeting a relatively small Forum (That has disproportionate impact because of how it is monitored and occasionally linked to much larger domestic political websites).

The ultimate difference between Democracies and Totalitarian Nations, is that it is our very openness that makes us most vulnerable, while at the same time being our Greatest strength.

Do we really want a society and Forum, where we purge and accuse fellow Forum Members of being Foreign Agents without proof, solely because of their country of origin and public statements?



Although it is true that Atlas doesn't have the capacity to defend itself against a Nation that has basically all but admitted to targeting the United States during the 2016 Presidential Election, we do have a capacity to defend ourselves against internal purges and Witch Hunts, that might well target a ton of innocents, solely because of an existential threat in the form of Russia, that is increasingly acting as a Hostile Foreign power....

I for one, do not believe in publicly "calling out names" in this manner....

Although the Mods have limited means at their disposal to deal with individual posters that haven't violated the ToS agreements, aren't running sock accounts, etc....  I do believe that it is extremely dangerous based upon interpretations of posting history, to make these kinds of accusations publically.

OT: I am a big fan of much of your detailed work and history on the Forum, but I'm a bit concerned about how and where you are going about your "suspicions"....

I think I'm being the voice of reason here, and going after Shadows in this manner appears to raise that basic question that goes back to early 1950s America with a certain Republican Senator from Wisconsin....

[Confused Democrat]

I like Shadows. Sorry not sorry.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obviously everyone who disapproves of Hillary is a Russian agent.

[Adam Griffin]

Obviously everyone who disapproves of Hillary is a Russian agent.

Nice strawman! I mean, I would never make such a claim: you, for instance, are just braindead.

And it has nothing to do with "MUH Hillary": it has to do with the fact that all of his posts are concern-trolling and/or the exact position somebody would take if they were trying to create in-fighting on a political forum.

Add to that his blatant hypocrisies like defending "Bernie politicians" and "Bernie's side" no matter what questionable behaviors and positions, and at minimum, he's just an awful hack with brand loyalty and visceral impulsiveness masquerading as ideological convictions (like you!).

The time to post this was before the primaries ended, when Shadows was a legitimately bad poster.

All of his quintessentially bad traits are still wholly intact, so I don't see why it isn't still legitimate.

snip

I think this is a bit much

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obviously everyone who disapproves of Hillary is a Russian agent.

Nice strawman! I mean, I would never make such a claim: you, for instance, are just braindead.

And it has nothing to do with "MUH Hillary": it has to do with the fact that all of his posts are concern-trolling and/or the exact position somebody would take if they were trying to create in-fighting on a political forum.

Add to that his blatant hypocrisies like defending "Bernie politicians" and "Bernie's side" no matter what questionable behaviors and positions, and at minimum, he's just an awful hack with brand loyalty and visceral impulsiveness masquerading as ideological convictions (like you!).

The time to post this was before the primaries ended, when Shadows was a legitimately bad poster.

All of his quintessentially bad traits are still wholly intact, so I don't see why it isn't still legitimate.

snip

I think this is a bit much

This whole thread's premise is that if you have grave concerns with the Democratic establishment you must be a Russian agent. Now, even without sh**t like this the Democratic establishment would be terrible, but this only makes it worse.

[Adam Griffin]

Obviously everyone who disapproves of Hillary is a Russian agent.

Nice strawman! I mean, I would never make such a claim: you, for instance, are just braindead.

And it has nothing to do with "MUH Hillary": it has to do with the fact that all of his posts are concern-trolling and/or the exact position somebody would take if they were trying to create in-fighting on a political forum.

Add to that his blatant hypocrisies like defending "Bernie politicians" and "Bernie's side" no matter what questionable behaviors and positions, and at minimum, he's just an awful hack with brand loyalty and visceral impulsiveness masquerading as ideological convictions (like you!).

The time to post this was before the primaries ended, when Shadows was a legitimately bad poster.

All of his quintessentially bad traits are still wholly intact, so I don't see why it isn't still legitimate.

snip

I think this is a bit much

This whole thread's premise is that if you have grave concerns with the Democratic establishment you must be a Russian agent. Now, even without sh**t like this the Democratic establishment would be terrible, but this only makes it worse.

No, that turd of an argument is what's rolling around in your head. I clearly listed why I brought this up in the OP.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obviously everyone who disapproves of Hillary is a Russian agent.

Nice strawman! I mean, I would never make such a claim: you, for instance, are just braindead.

And it has nothing to do with "MUH Hillary": it has to do with the fact that all of his posts are concern-trolling and/or the exact position somebody would take if they were trying to create in-fighting on a political forum.

Add to that his blatant hypocrisies like defending "Bernie politicians" and "Bernie's side" no matter what questionable behaviors and positions, and at minimum, he's just an awful hack with brand loyalty and visceral impulsiveness masquerading as ideological convictions (like you!).

The time to post this was before the primaries ended, when Shadows was a legitimately bad poster.

All of his quintessentially bad traits are still wholly intact, so I don't see why it isn't still legitimate.

snip

I think this is a bit much

This whole thread's premise is that if you have grave concerns with the Democratic establishment you must be a Russian agent. Now, even without sh**t like this the Democratic establishment would be terrible, but this only makes it worse.

No, that turd of an argument is what's rolling around in your head. I clearly listed why I brought this up in the OP.

You know, you could be a David Brock Shareblue Bot. We should look into that.

[Adam Griffin]

You know, you could be a David Brock Shareblue Bot. We should look into that.

I assure you that pretty much everybody here in a position to need-to-know already clearly knows who I am. I'm a hack in my own right without the need for compensation.

At any rate, do you have any more strawmen "muh Hillary/DNC" arguments to craft, or...?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

You know, you could be a David Brock Shareblue Bot. We should look into that.

I assure you that pretty much everybody here in a position to need-to-know already clearly knows who I am. I'm a hack in my own right without the need for compensation.

At any rate, do you have any more strawmen "muh Hillary/DNC" arguments to craft, or...?

I've seen plenty of David Brock Shareblue bots. I have yet to see these Russian Bernie Bros or whatever the mythical creature you're talking about is.

[Mr. Morden]

I just wish he'd stop plagiarizing news stories when he writes his posts.  How hard is it to indicate in a post when you're writing the words yourself and when you're copying and pasting from other sites?  It seems like he actually doesn't understand how the quote function works, so maybe it actually is hard for him, I don't know.

I think Carl Hayden had that same problem of not understanding how the quote function worked.

[Adam Griffin]

At any rate, do you have any more strawmen "muh Hillary/DNC" arguments to craft, or...?

I have yet to see these Russian Bernie Bros or whatever the mythical creature you're talking about is.

Apparently so!

[This account no longer in use.]

The Griffin-Jfern argument here is one of the situations where the moderate hero option is totally right.

[Kingpoleon]

Former President Griffin:

I ask that you accuse Shadows not of being a Russian agent. I contend that you are resorting to your usual tactics: mudslinging, rumor spreading, yellow "journalism". If you disagree with his ideas, do not make false accusations. Our forum is one of wisdom and words, not of men and mudslinging. Debate therefore his ideas openly, for not doing so can only indicate either disrespect for discussion or that you cannot debate his ideas. Your usual tactics do not work in the open, and for that reason you fear openness.

Your response to open discussion is to attack the character of all you disagree with. You imply and sometimes outright state that your opponents have a character almost as low as yours. I therefore contend that no one on Atlas has such a low character as yours. You will respond to this with confusing nonsense, intended to muddy waters, as clear waters do not suit you. I do not intend to further insult and demean you - and you have plenty more I could attack you for.

Please: cease and resists in your ill treatment of others and mudslingling accusations. They suit not even a person as low you.

- Kingpoleon

[Adam Griffin]

Former President Griffin:

I ask that you accuse Shadows not of being a Russian agent. I contend that you are resorting to your usual tactics: mudslinging, rumor spreading, yellow "journalism". If you disagree with his ideas, do not make false accusations. Our forum is one of wisdom and words, not of men and mudslinging. Debate therefore his ideas openly, for not doing so can only indicate either disrespect for discussion or that you cannot debate his ideas. Your usual tactics do not work in the open, and for that reason you fear openness.

Your response to open discussion is to attack the character of all you disagree with. You imply and sometimes outright state that your opponents have a character almost as low as yours. I therefore contend that no one on Atlas has such a low character as yours. You will respond to this with confusing nonsense, intended to muddy waters, as clear waters do not suit you. I do not intend to further insult and demean you - and you have plenty more I could attack you for.

Please: cease and resists in your ill treatment of others and mudslingling accusations. They suit not even a person as low you.

- Kingpoleon

Wait is this a serious post or

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The best part about the nonsense jfern is saying is Adam was a Sanders delegate to the national convention.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also worth noting Shadows supports Wikileaks.

[NOVA Green]

This is not a relitigation of the 2016 Democratic Primaries...

That debate has long existed on many other threads, in a variety of different manners both during the Democratic Primaries, after the convention, and certainly post General Election.

This is not the topic---]

Sure I as did many others that voted for Bernie in Primaries, including most of my immediate friends and family reluctantly support Clinton in the General Election.

That is not the point, and I don't give an eff about that debate at this point----

As a distinguished and well respected member of the Forum, whose insights, analysis, and opinions I value on a wide range of topics, Former President Griffen you were a bit OTT on this, certainly by posting it as an open thread....

My fundamental point, is that you accused a fellow Forum member of potentially being a Russian agent in public, without any proof to back up your position solely upon the member's post history.

I recall a roughly similar incident back in either '08 or '12, where I was involved and posted a few comments of a similar nature.

So now all Atlas posters with foreign IP addresses, and "Non-Native" English accents are suspect?

I find it interesting that you chose not to directly respond to my comments, but instead get into a debate about something else entirely, because you and another poster have some beef.

You are above this, and I have no investments nor ulterior motives in my statements....

The vast majority of Americans are well aware that Russia did a ton of dirty deeds in the '16 GE... even now many Republican Senators....

Take a chill pill, let time take it's course, but Democracy and Atlas is stronger than this...

[NOVA Green]

So if the "Central Committee" decides to purge Shadows of suspected Anti-American sympathies, based upon a small number of posters, without a single shred of evidence, I might need to flee the Reactionary forces of the Revolution and head to Krondstadt....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion

Ok--- I'm not quite that old, but still, let's attempt mass deportations circa New Deal America, where the Industrial Owners tried to deport a significant number of Americans, solely because they were Labor Union activists, based upon their paperwork status....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb7__SrobWM

Now, it appears that mass deportation of Atlas members is fashionable, based solely upon their country of origin and posting history?

Last time I checked, there is a statue standing in the Harbor of New York City, where both my Grandmother & Grandfather arrived as immigrants back in '20s America.... I simply don't believe in this concept that we can ban members from Atlas based solely upon their country of origin, "poor English", let alone someone people might disagree with on political issues of all types.

[This account no longer in use.]

Honestly, NOVA, I wouldn't bother. I'm fairly certain this is just the AAD cult starting another witch hunt.

[JerryArkansas]

Holy sh**t the fact that people above are acting like this is just like the red scare is saddening. 

[heatcharger]

Quite possible. His grammar is really weird and his use of punctuation isn't natural at all for someone whose first language is supposedly English. This hilariously contrived response he gave you didn't really convince me either:

English IS my first language, it is my mother's 1st language. Every book, every paper from school to university to masters, that I have had to read or every examination that I had to take part in, was in English. It is only language in which I can comfortably write. I find it highly insulting that you will resort to such slander & insults based on falsehoods. As someone, who was reading Charles Dickens/Mark Twain from the age of 7 and who has read entire plays of Shakespeare from the age of 12, I find it preposterous that someone like you will question my English language proficiency. I have a small library at my home, a large share of family have a Ph.d & I am a person who has been a part of various literary societies & has written/acted in plays in English. Your attack is deplorable & you should apologize.

It's possible he's some really old literary intellectual, but I doubt it.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Without going into details out of respect for his privacy, it is unlikely that Shadows is operating out of Eastern Europe.