The murder of Lee Harvey Oswald was even stranger than the murder of JFK...
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  The murder of Lee Harvey Oswald was even stranger than the murder of JFK...
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Author Topic: The murder of Lee Harvey Oswald was even stranger than the murder of JFK...  (Read 716 times)
136or142
Adam T
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« on: July 04, 2017, 02:21:49 AM »
« edited: July 04, 2017, 03:09:47 AM by Adam T »

...In terms of the ability of each murder to occur.

My information is from this program: The National Geographic Program The Lost JFK Tapes: The Assassination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34K0oYGUGFk
Despite what the time there says, it's half the length, as it plays twice.

This program is a compilation of news reports as they came into a local Dallas T.V station.

With JFK, once you accept the idea that the buildings and the areas around the route JFK's motorcade was travelling were not secured and that JFK's car did not have the bubble top on it, there was nothing unusual with the ability of a sniper to kill JFK from a building (or shooting from the grassy knoll if you prefer.)

The situation with Lee Oswald though is absolutely bizarre.  The program mentions that the Dallas City Hall building where Oswald was kept in jail as they prepared to move him to the Dallas County Jail was secured much more the JFK motorcade route.  They said that the only people allowed into the building as Oswald was being moved were police officers and journalists.

Given that the amount of police training in 1963 to secure buildings and routes was likely nowhere near what it is now, I can understand the explanation at the time that Jack Ruby was overlooked because the police said "we assumed he was with the FBI, as he was wearing their outfit."
 (they may have said that they assumed he was with the Secret Service, not the FBI, I'm not great remembering names.)  

However, obviously that assumes they had no idea who he was, which was contradicted later when at least several of the Dallas police officers said "we knew he was Jack Ruby because we were familiar with him through his strip club business."

So, one might think that since at least some of the police knew who he was, they figured "Well, he's just Jack Ruby, he's harmless."  However, that's contradicted by the order to allow only police officers and journalists to be in the city hall building during the removal of Lee Oswald.  It's hard to believe that not a single police officer there who knew who Jack Ruby was would have decided to not follow orders and have Ruby removed from the building.

Also, before the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald, the Chief of the Dallas Police is quoted as saying "we have an air tight case against Oswald" and something like "we have no indication that anybody else was involved in the killing of JFK"

However, after Ruby killed Oswald, the news reports state that the Dallas police believed that in no way did Jack Ruby act out of 'patriotic fervor' and that the killing of Oswald was to silence him from speaking publicly.  So, the Dallas Police Chief was presumably told by his officers that the case against Oswald was air tight and he acted alone, but then that Ruby killed Oswald to silence him even though Oswald acted alone.  

Unmentioned in that program is that the Dallas police knew at that time that Ruby was a member of the Mafia, although I suppose it's implied in saying that the Dallas police collectively believed that Ruby killed Oswald to silence him.

That the police knew at the time that Ruby was a member of the Mafia makes it even stranger that he wasn't removed from the building as there were rumors even then that the Mafia had a role in the killing of JFK.

Edit to add: In regards to the JFK assassination, once it was decided that JFK would be riding in a convertible (that decision was apparently solely based on the weather conditions) I don't know whose decisions it was to not put the bubble top on top of the convertible (I've read from some sources that JFK personally decided that) however, if you see this video, you'll realize that the idea of securing the motorcade route is ridiculous.  I don't know that every building along the route would have needed to be secured with officers posted in each building, but there were literally hundreds of buildings along the route.  The only way that could have been done is if the military (or maybe the National Guard) was ordered to do this job. If for no other reason, the optics of 'JFK militarizing Dallas' would have made doing this impossible.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 07:10:03 AM »

I was looking on Youtube for an explanation of all this bizarre situation when I came upon a video of Mark Lane being interviewed by William Buckley in 1966 and the pompous twit Buckley said exactly that about Ruby "he was regarded as harmless."

It's interesting how the direct orders from the Dallas Police Chief that only police officers (and maybe federal officers) and verified journalists were allowed to be in that floor of the city hall building at the time has been completely forgotten.  Even Mark Lane didn't mention that.

The interview on Firing Line was about 48 minutes long and listening to the dimwitted William Buckley trying to show his supposed intelligence by using all sorts of big words was hard to put up with.

I couldn't find any program on Youtube about the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald but I'll see tomorrow if I can find excerpts on it from Vincent Bugliosi's book. 
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jfern
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2017, 07:12:47 AM »

Under Secretary of Labor and future Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan told them that they needed much better security for Oswald.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 05:08:30 PM »
« Edited: July 08, 2017, 05:10:15 PM by PR »

Mentally unstable JFK supporter who neverless was a familiar face to local law enforcement (and thus, not someone whom they would have seen as a threat), in an act of impulsive rage, shoots the smug punk who murdered the man's beloved President.

Not sure what's so bizzare about this within the context of something as bizzare, traumatic, and surreal as the assassination of a US President - let alone, literally the only (succesful) instance within living memory.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 08:47:38 PM »

Mentally unstable JFK supporter who neverless was a familiar face to local law enforcement (and thus, not someone whom they would have seen as a threat), in an act of impulsive rage, shoots the smug punk who murdered the man's beloved President.

Not sure what's so bizzare about this within the context of something as bizzare, traumatic, and surreal as the assassination of a US President - let alone, literally the only (succesful) instance within living memory.

1.He was also a member of the Mafia who the Kennedy Administration were taking on.  I don't buy it that he was a JFK supporter.

2."Act of impulsive rage."  He had been in the city hall building all day waiting for Oswald to come along.

3.As I wrote above, the security protocol was that only police officers and verified journalists were allowed on that floor of the Dallas City Hall building.  I've been around bureaucratic operations long enough to know that people in these situations follow protocol and i doubt that was different 50 years ago.

4.From that video, the police say they assumed Ruby was a member of either the Secret Service or the FBI prior to him killing Oswald.  From those live reports, the police officers (some of them, anyway) only recognized him as Ruby after he shot Oswald. 

I can understand as, I wrote previously, that because officers were not trained in security the way they are now, that if they thought he was a federal officer that they would have left him alone even though they didn't know who he was, but that video contradicts the 'they knew he was Ruby and they thought he was harmless' argument.

I find it hard to believe that not a single police officer there prior to the shooting would not have recognized him as Ruby and would not have said to him "I'm sorry Jack, but we have to enforce the protocols we've been given and you'll have to leave."

When I wrote that this is strange I meant literally that.  I also highly doubt that the Dallas police was part of either the alleged conspiracy to kill Kennedy or its alleged cover up.  It's all just very strange.
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