The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

[vanguard96]

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His writings on slavery don't seem any more racist than Abraham Lincoln's, and his racial problems were societal problems.
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Lincoln's views on slavery and blacks were abhorrent - bar set very low there.

"I as much as any man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race" 1858

He's no Lysander Spooner.

[vanguard96]

I just listened to a podcast from Tom Woods from a few days ago on James Madison and the protest against his name on a high school as a part of overall iconoclasm that was associated with figures from the 18th and 19th centuries.

Near the end of the podcast they mentioned about white Southerners one or two generations ago having pictures of Robert E. Lee hanging on their walls next to Jesus.

My grandparents who lived in Nashville were Methodist educators and did not make overt mention of the war of Northern Aggression or say 'the South will rise again" or hang Confederate flags or pictures of Confederate figures or those times in their house. They lived in the same neighborhood as Lamar Alexander - literally two houses down the street from him. So my experience there and with my cousins was not one like that but then that was the 80's and in a fair-sized city. And in college also in Nashville at Vandy I did not see that. The first time I really saw the old stereotype full on was when I lived in Morristown in eastern TN - not as much in Morristown itself but in the surrounding rural counties. I suspect there could be a few old guys there who still felt that way.

What about in Arkansas from your experience?

[vanguard96]

Naturally, Lincoln must be judged by such types as a racial extremist while still being a racist garbagebag.

There are many arguments against Lincoln beyond being racist segregationist who did not believe in the equality of blacks and whites (which many people were in those days) like suspending habeas corpus, violently quelling dissent, instituting an income tax, forcing people to accept money not backed by gold or silver, denying medical relief to the enemies, and letting his generals conduct total war against civilians.

Just because Jefferson Davis and the Confederates were OK with many of these same things plus chattel slavery does not make it acceptable that Lincoln did them - even in war.  Just because Forrest and other Confederate generals butchered surrendering Negro troops did not give the OK for similar atrocities committed under Sherman and Sheridan.

Famously Lincoln & General Grant greenlighted Sherman's destructive tactics focused on civilian infrastructure that have both earned praise from military strategists as well as sanction from many Southerners. While directives expressly forbade attacking civilians rape and murders did occur.

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/rape-and-justice-in-the-civil-war/

This is a chapter in the Civil War that has a lot of controversy of course but at the same time the lack of multi-dimensional studies on both Union & Confederate aggression against civilians is something that should be addressed in the historical record aside.

[vanguard96]

Exactly. This is one of the few points on which I actually agree with Marx : in order to achieve a perfect society, one must first create a less bad society. It's not a matter of 'excusing' the moral failings of past generations, but rather of acknowledging that the process has to start somewhere, and attempts to achieve instantaneous revolution usually end in disaster.

I am not sure if a perfect society is even a good goal to have. Humans are imperfect. What is perfect for the overwhelming majority may be absolute tyranny for others.

The other part about starting from somewhere I believe is apt.