Breaking News: Iraqi Kurds to hold Independence Refurendum on September 25
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  Breaking News: Iraqi Kurds to hold Independence Refurendum on September 25
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Author Topic: Breaking News: Iraqi Kurds to hold Independence Refurendum on September 25  (Read 2559 times)
Gass3268
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« on: June 07, 2017, 11:29:59 AM »

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dead0man
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2017, 11:36:35 AM »

good luck
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The Mikado
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2017, 12:20:11 PM »

Have they clearly defined what territory they consider/do not consider "Iraqi Kurdistan" for the purposes of this referendum? That's a pretty controversial point all on its own.
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hurricanehink
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2017, 12:26:17 PM »

Have they clearly defined what territory they consider/do not consider "Iraqi Kurdistan" for the purposes of this referendum? That's a pretty controversial point all on its own.
http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/e69078ea-75ac-45f5-ad69-2a47321190c5 - including disputed territories.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2017, 12:31:18 PM »

So all of this?



Lots of Arabs are going to end up in that country. I mean, it looks like it takes in even the suburbs of Mosul.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2017, 01:52:00 PM »

So all of this?



Lots of Arabs are going to end up in that country. I mean, it looks like it takes in even the suburbs of Mosul.

I think that map is misusing the word "claimed" as "under the control of." Kurdistan claims more areas than what is officially theirs, but much of the dark brown on that map is just areas recently liberated from ISIL by Kurdish forces.

Here's Wikipedia's map of official vs. claimed control, and you can see the differences:

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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 01:58:19 PM »

Erdogan will go banana.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 01:58:59 PM »

Good for them. Hopefully this goes through.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 02:36:32 PM »

Iran would also be opposed to this, I assume?
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DavidB.
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 02:46:28 PM »

and also
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2017, 03:21:57 PM »

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Blue3
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2017, 03:43:58 PM »

It's basically guaranteed to pass in a referendum, from what I know of the situation. I'm not expert, but if they think they're ready to have a referendum, it's because they think they're ready (and better off) to become independent. This isn't like the UK walking into Brexit like a deer staring into the headlights.
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 03:45:28 PM »


Perhaps much less than you might think. Erdogan much prefers his puppet the KRG than the YPG.

Personally as a supporter of democratic confederalism and a sceptic of separatism in general I lean against this move, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 04:25:37 PM »

I thought the Iraqi Kurds were sufficiently content with the large degree of autonomy they are already enjoying, instead of rocking the boat too much by going all out for independence. This change in sentiment must have been the result of the pathetic initial showing the Iraqi army made in the face of ISIS.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 04:59:20 PM »

I thought the Iraqi Kurds were sufficiently content with the large degree of autonomy they are already enjoying, instead of rocking the boat too much by going all out for independence. This change in sentiment must have been the result of the pathetic initial showing the Iraqi army made in the face of ISIS.

This may have affected their decision a month ago too:
Trump Approves Plan to Arm Syrian Kurds
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officials-trump-approves-plan-arm-syrian-kurds-n756886


(Although any government counting on Trump to come through for them is doomed.)


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Neo-JacobitefromNewYork
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2017, 06:57:34 PM »


His ally the Nationalist Movement Party will be furious, but AKP and Erdogan are in bed wit KRG President Masoud Barzani's KDP, the dominating party in KRG. KDP is very much opposed to Apoist movements like PKK, HDP, and Syrian Kurds'  dominant movement Democratic Union Party PYD ,which are opposed most of Turkey's political spectrum. . PUK and Gorran are the two serious KRG opposition parties, both are much more friendly to Apoist movement especially PYD led SDF military alliance in Rojava. PUK is more gun ho about independence than Gorran which wants KRG Parliment reopened from KDP shutdown. PUK and Gorran are also much more willing to have friendly relations with Iraqi Government and Iran.

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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2017, 03:07:23 PM »

Would Iraq be OK with this?
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Badger
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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2017, 12:18:12 AM »


His ally the Nationalist Movement Party will be furious, but AKP and Erdogan are in bed wit KRG President Masoud Barzani's KDP, the dominating party in KRG. KDP is very much opposed to Apoist movements like PKK, HDP, and Syrian Kurds'  dominant movement Democratic Union Party PYD ,which are opposed most of Turkey's political spectrum. . PUK and Gorran are the two serious KRG opposition parties, both are much more friendly to Apoist movement especially PYD led SDF military alliance in Rojava. PUK is more gun ho about independence than Gorran which wants KRG Parliment reopened from KDP shutdown. PUK and Gorran are also much more willing to have friendly relations with Iraqi Government and Iran.



Jesus. I'm duly impressed with your in depth knowledge, but I need a chart to follow all that. Tongue
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 04:28:26 AM »

Baghdad rejects Kurds' move to press for independence unilaterally

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-kurds-idUSKBN190156
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 09:53:18 PM »


Like the Iraqi government bombing Kurdistan to smithereens to "put down this rebellion", with the assistance of Iran and Turkey (and by extension Russia).
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2017, 03:42:14 PM »

The Iraqi Kurdish government is pro-Turkey. They would not have done this unless Turkey approved it.

Turkey must have come to the conclusion that a Kurdish state is inevitable, so they are going to create their own pro-Turkey Kurdish state which they can use to wage a proxy war against the anti-Turkey Kurdish state (Rojava).
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2017, 07:06:21 PM »

So apologies if this question has been addressed elsewhere, and honestly squinting at the maps included, I can't tell if this includes the Iraqi Kurdish oil fields outside of Kirkuk....

One of the main challenges in creating a Kurdish state is not only the delineating of boundaries included in the Treaty of Sevres, for where a referendum on Kurdish Independence would take place following the end of WWI, massive persecution of Kurdish political rights and freedoms within the various "Nation States" (Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran) over subsequent decades, but also what would an economic foundation look like within a Free and Independent Kurdistan....

If the oil fields of Kirkuk are included within the boundary, and if it wins overwhelmingly in Iraqi Kurdistan, and additionally the Iraqi government agrees to terms regarding the oil fields of Kirkuk, then it is not hard to envision a situation whereby an independent Kurdish state becomes economically viable, and eventually includes other Kurdish regions elsewhere, that never had a chance to vote on Independence as promised by the European Powers, when the Ottoman Empire finally collapsed.
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SATW
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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2017, 10:31:59 PM »

yaaass
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CrabCake
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2017, 10:10:58 AM »

I think it's very unlikely that an independent Kurdistan would who down an irredentist root. It would make things extraordinarily dispfficuly for themselves, and it's not like there's significant pressure from any influential group to do so.
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Santander
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2017, 10:03:13 AM »

Look at the kind of neighborhood this would create. A tiny, landlocked state sandwiched between hostile and/or dangerous neighbors Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Sorry, I don't think this is something we should be cheering.
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