UK General Election, 2017 - Election Day and Results Thread
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Author Topic: UK General Election, 2017 - Election Day and Results Thread  (Read 144845 times)
Leftbehind
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« Reply #1700 on: June 16, 2017, 12:21:33 PM »

You third-wayites are amazing. Corbyn just achieved the highest gains for Labour since Clement F**king Attlee and turned around a 17-point deficit (which, let's face it, was at least partly caused by the infighting that YOU triggered because you couldn't accept him as a legitimate leader) into a near-tie, electing more MPs in the process than the party has had since the Blair years, and somehow you still manage to find things to complain about him and insist that he's unelectable even as Labour has taken a lead in the polls.

Look, I get that you don't like Corbyn very much and strongly disagree with his views, and I respect that. I myself am not a fan of his foreign policies (though his domestic policies are excellent). But stop pretending that your issue with him has anything to do with his objective quality as a leader, because that's blatant bullsh*t.

Thankfully most of the Blairite MPs seem to be on board - and they're not to be confused with the far more numerous, and agreeable, soft-left who were also part of the post-referendum revolt (the EU is something the hard-left and soft-left have profound disagreements over and the mistrust surfaced). The tiny minority who aren't are risking alienating themselves into irrelevance.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1701 on: June 16, 2017, 12:30:48 PM »

Is Corbyn the most leftist of Labour leader since WW2? or more?

Yes, probably. However him personally is not the same as his platform, which is only really to the left of the New Labour manifestos (it is certainly nowhere near as left as 1983, which is what Corbyn would prefer to enact).

Michael Foot will probably be more left wing than Corbyn. Many of the pre-Margaret Thatcher leaders were broadly similar to Corbyn. Corbyn's manifesto apart from nationalization is a pretty tame left wing version & doesn't really represent his left wing economic policies adequately !

I don't think Foot was to the left of Corbyn. Corbyn is a staunch Bennite, and Foot while more favourable to that direction, was seen as a unifying figure between the two wings (although undoubtedly on the left).

But we're in agreement that Corbynism is significantly watered-down of his actual views, and really just a social democratic stepping-stone for wider support.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1702 on: June 16, 2017, 12:32:42 PM »


Nice! Smiley Thank you.
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Shadows
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« Reply #1703 on: June 16, 2017, 12:34:29 PM »

Is Corbyn the most leftist of Labour leader since WW2? or more?

Yes, probably. However him personally is not the same as his platform, which is only really to the left of the New Labour manifestos (it is certainly nowhere near as left as 1983, which is what Corbyn would prefer to enact).

Michael Foot will probably be more left wing than Corbyn. Many of the pre-Margaret Thatcher leaders were broadly similar to Corbyn. Corbyn's manifesto apart from nationalization is a pretty tame left wing version & doesn't really represent his left wing economic policies adequately !

I don't think Foot was to the left of Corbyn. Corbyn is a staunch Bennite, and Foot while more favourable to that direction, was seen as a unifying figure between the two wings (although undoubtedly on the left).

But we're in agreement that Corbynism is significantly watered-down of his actual views, and really just a social democratic stepping-stone for wider support.

Harold Wilson maybe, but Foot? He was from the hardcore left wing faction of Labour & he was so left that the party split & Social Democrats sort of gained traction out of it ! Foot was very divisive in the party & was totally disliked by the moderate section, perhaps even more than Corbyn !
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1704 on: June 16, 2017, 12:54:18 PM »

Is Corbyn the most leftist of Labour leader since WW2? or more?

Yes, probably. However him personally is not the same as his platform, which is only really to the left of the New Labour manifestos (it is certainly nowhere near as left as 1983, which is what Corbyn would prefer to enact).

Michael Foot will probably be more left wing than Corbyn. Many of the pre-Margaret Thatcher leaders were broadly similar to Corbyn. Corbyn's manifesto apart from nationalization is a pretty tame left wing version & doesn't really represent his left wing economic policies adequately !

I don't think Foot was to the left of Corbyn. Corbyn is a staunch Bennite, and Foot while more favourable to that direction, was seen as a unifying figure between the two wings (although undoubtedly on the left).

But we're in agreement that Corbynism is significantly watered-down of his actual views, and really just a social democratic stepping-stone for wider support.

Harold Wilson maybe, but Foot? He was from the hardcore left wing faction of Labour & he was so left that the party split & Social Democrats sort of gained traction out of it ! Foot was very divisive in the party & was totally disliked by the moderate section, perhaps even more than Corbyn !

The party split because the wider party adopted Bennite policies wholesale as the agreed manifesto anyway, hence why the SDP wasn't formed upon Foot's election but after the policy platform was decided.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1705 on: June 16, 2017, 12:59:22 PM »

I also don't think a 3rd way person will support such an extreme right wing Tory government.

Depends entirely which Blairite you ask: I believe John Rentoul for instance has said exactly that.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1706 on: June 16, 2017, 02:42:22 PM »

Is Corbyn the most leftist of Labour leader since WW2? or more?

In terms of his personal views then he is the most left-wing Labour leader since George Lansbury (1932-35). But the platform Labour ran on was only mildly to the left of that which Labour ran on in 1992 and 1997 and to the right of those of 1987, 1983 and 1974. It was o/c a collective Party platform designed for a collective Party campaign; internet coverage seen from abroad is maybe misleading as to what the Labour campaign felt like.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1707 on: June 16, 2017, 02:43:05 PM »

And, yes, before anyone asks: George was Angela's uncle.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #1708 on: June 16, 2017, 02:49:57 PM »

And, yes, before anyone asks: George was Angela's uncle.

Grandfather, no?
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #1709 on: June 16, 2017, 04:27:05 PM »

Also Foot was certainly on the left of the party - but the main problem as Al has said wasn't so much with that but with the fact that the left decided to run on a much more radical platform than Labour now are: plus also the perceived power that Militant had in the party (probably overblown but in some parts of the country the left were very dominant) - in some places you had MPs being de-selected for being from the right of the party, for example.  There's a reason why the current leadership haven't gone down that route (although they've spoken of doing that) and why the manifesto was reasonably moderate: they don't really want there to be a split in the Labour party since that didn't work very well for them in the 80s, and basically put the left of the party out of any influential positions for a long time - and these faction debates are mostly about power, after all.

Also the "left" of the Labour party meant something a little different in the 80s; you had your Bennite-type people sure (which make up the new hard left) but then also your Militant types who were Trots and removed from the party during the 80s (when Militant was chucked out they formed the Socialist Party of England and Wales which now form part of TUSC and aren't particularly relevant - not to be confused with the Socialist Party of Great Britain who're a very odd lot - and my favourite section of the far left just because of the impractically of their policies) - Corbyn and co are the former.  Not that in terms of policies much changes at the moment:
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adma
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« Reply #1710 on: June 16, 2017, 06:17:15 PM »

But we're in agreement that Corbynism is significantly watered-down of his actual views, and really just a social democratic stepping-stone for wider support.

The inverse, I guess, of Harperism in Canada (at least until the run-up to the 2015 election)
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parochial boy
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« Reply #1711 on: June 17, 2017, 06:13:59 AM »

If I have got my numbers right, out of 230 constituencies that voted to remain in the EU referendum, the results in 2017 were as follows:

Labour - 104 (+24)
Conservative - 77 (-3)
SNP - 35 (-20)
Lib Dems - 9 (+3)
Plaid Cymru - 3 (+1)
Greens - 1
Other (Speaker) - 1

Excluding Scotland; Labour gained 13, Plaid gained one and the Tories lost 14. The Lib Dems didn't make any net gains.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1712 on: June 17, 2017, 09:11:43 AM »

South East added:

https://imgur.com/a/ZoPHE
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Maxwell
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« Reply #1713 on: June 17, 2017, 02:45:43 PM »

If I have got my numbers right, out of 230 constituencies that voted to remain in the EU referendum, the results in 2017 were as follows:

Labour - 104 (+24)
Conservative - 77 (-3)
SNP - 35 (-20)
Lib Dems - 9 (+3)
Plaid Cymru - 3 (+1)
Greens - 1
Other (Speaker) - 1

Excluding Scotland; Labour gained 13, Plaid gained one and the Tories lost 14. The Lib Dems didn't make any net gains.


That's a faildozer right there.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #1714 on: June 17, 2017, 02:49:06 PM »

What Leave constituency/ies did the Lib Dems pick up?
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #1715 on: June 17, 2017, 02:53:52 PM »

What Leave constituency/ies did the Lib Dems pick up?
None, they picked up remain seats in Scotland due to the SNP  drop.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #1716 on: June 17, 2017, 02:56:50 PM »

What Leave constituency/ies did the Lib Dems pick up?
None, they picked up remain seats in Scotland due to the SNP  drop.

Their UK-wide net gain was +4 and parochial boy has their net gain of Remain seats both in Scotland and UK-wide as +3. That implies at least one pickup of a Leave seat in England, doesn't it?
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bore
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« Reply #1717 on: June 17, 2017, 02:57:15 PM »

What Leave constituency/ies did the Lib Dems pick up?

Eastbourne, with Carshalton and Norfolk North being Leave holds.
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Boston Bread
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« Reply #1718 on: June 17, 2017, 03:00:01 PM »

What Leave constituency/ies did the Lib Dems pick up?

Eastbourne, with Carshalton and Norfolk North being Leave holds.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Sorry.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1719 on: June 17, 2017, 03:36:34 PM »

South West added:

https://imgur.com/a/0WQx9
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1720 on: June 17, 2017, 05:37:57 PM »



The picture will be larger if you right click on it. And you can see the full size image - which is Too Big For Atlas - here.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1721 on: June 17, 2017, 07:36:44 PM »

All of England done:









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Leftbehind
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« Reply #1722 on: June 17, 2017, 07:42:37 PM »
« Edited: June 18, 2017, 09:55:51 AM by ⚑ Comrade Corbyn for PM ⚑ »



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Boston Bread
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« Reply #1723 on: June 17, 2017, 10:55:50 PM »

Huh, I would have thought the North had a swing to labour. Wasn't the only region to swing Conservative the North East?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1724 on: June 17, 2017, 11:25:57 PM »



The picture will be larger if you right click on it. And you can see the full size image - which is Too Big For Atlas - here.

Beautiful! Cheesy

Of course it could be more beautiful with a lot more red, but I hope we'll get that eventually. Wink
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