Can Muslims be white?

[Republican_Carpetbagger]

The college left is currently trying to redefine "White" to mean basically "not oppressed". It's already seeped into the popular imagination a little bit with things like the trope about "Italians and Jews weren't considered White!" Which is absolutely 100% BS. Italians and Jews weren't liked, they were discriminated against, but no one thought they weren't White. Jews and Italians were allowed to marry WASPS when interracial marriage was illegal. Jews and Italians went to White schools when there was segregation. They have always been considered White. It's a really strange idea and it hasn't yet achieved full ideology hegemony over all of academia. Going off the past re-definitions of "gender" and "racism" though, I imagine they will ultimately be successful.

Exactly. Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Italians, etc. - regardless of religion - were all legally allowed to immigrate to the U.S. and become citizens under the pre-1965 naturalization acts which limited becoming citizens to "free white persons."

[Person Man]

The college left is currently trying to redefine "White" to mean basically "not oppressed". It's already seeped into the popular imagination a little bit with things like the trope about "Italians and Jews weren't considered White!" Which is absolutely 100% BS. Italians and Jews weren't liked, they were discriminated against, but no one thought they weren't White. Jews and Italians were allowed to marry WASPS when interracial marriage was illegal. Jews and Italians went to White schools when there was segregation. They have always been considered White. It's a really strange idea and it hasn't yet achieved full ideology hegemony over all of academia. Going off the past re-definitions of "gender" and "racism" though, I imagine they will ultimately be successful.

Exactly. Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Italians, etc. - regardless of religion - were all legally allowed to immigrate to the U.S. and become citizens under the pre-1965 naturalization acts which limited becoming citizens to "free white persons."

That’s not totally true for Jews. And in isolated incidents for Italians. That’s why there are Jewish neighborhoods on Miami Beach. Jews had to live the colored part of town.

[Figueira]

It's hard to imagine a reasonable definition of "white people" that doesn't include a single Muslim.

[Former President tack50]

Yes of course. Even if you don't take into account converts or the fact that race is pretty much a spectrum and not really clear, there can obviously be white muslims, just look at Bosnia or Albania.

Just like there are Asian muslims (Indonesia) or Black muslims (many parts of subsaharan Africa)

[alancia]

Yes of course. Even if you don't take into account converts or the fact that race is pretty much a spectrum and not really clear, there can obviously be white muslims, just look at Bosnia or Albania.

Just like there are Asian muslims (Indonesia) or Black muslims (many parts of subsaharan Africa)

[Beet]

The college left is currently trying to redefine "White" to mean basically "not oppressed". It's already seeped into the popular imagination a little bit with things like the trope about "Italians and Jews weren't considered White!" Which is absolutely 100% BS. Italians and Jews weren't liked, they were discriminated against, but no one thought they weren't White. Jews and Italians were allowed to marry WASPS when interracial marriage was illegal. Jews and Italians went to White schools when there was segregation. They have always been considered White. It's a really strange idea and it hasn't yet achieved full ideology hegemony over all of academia. Going off the past re-definitions of "gender" and "racism" though, I imagine they will ultimately be successful.

Exactly. Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Italians, etc. - regardless of religion - were all legally allowed to immigrate to the U.S. and become citizens under the pre-1965 naturalization acts which limited becoming citizens to "free white persons."

That’s not totally true for Jews. And in isolated incidents for Italians. That’s why there are Jewish neighborhoods on Miami Beach. Jews had to live the colored part of town.

In any case, arguing historical facts as to who is considered what race just furthers the notion that race is social construct. Mortimer arguing that Italians and Jews were not oppressed (which is not true) via interracial marriage and segregation does not oppose the idea that race is determined by oppression, only that Italians and Jews faced lesser oppression than African Americans. It should be remembered, however, that even African Americans never faced the gas chambers.

[parochial boy]

Would also like to point out that both Bashar Al Assad and Omar Al Bashir are "Arab", and well, look at both of them. It's much more of a cultural identity than a phenotypical appearance - which is actually far more logical than the way we categorise "race" in the west.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Of course! There are plenty of Muslims in the Balkans, many of whom don't look any different from any other typical European. Really, Muslims come from all different ethnic backgrounds, and I don't think enough people realize that. That's why Islamophobia can resemble racism, because often it is based on one's appearance. Also, as noted, people can convert.

[Lu Xun]

What's funny is that being Muslim makes groups considered less white while being Christian makes groups considered more white.  Most Americans would consider Armenians white, even though many of them are quite dark.  Christian Arabs are likewise considered white (Ralph Nader, etc.).  And while there are Muslim peoples that are generally considered white (like Bosnians, Albanians, and Chechens), Turks are generally considered non-white despite not being significantly darker than Greeks or the aforementioned Armenians. 

Generally, though, anti-Muslim sentiment is tied pretty closely to racism because most Americans associate Islam with brown and black people (mostly Arabs, Persians, and to a lesser extent South Asians and Somalis).  Hence the attacks on Sikhs and Hindus mistaken for Muslims.  It's rare to see individual non-brown Muslims being the target of Islamophobic attacks.  Granted there aren't a large amount of white or East Asian looking Muslims among America's already very small Muslim population to start out with.

[pbrower2a]

Weren't many of the Islamic rulers in Spain light-skinned?

Yes. Many such rulers married Basques and Spaniards of Visigoth origin, and their children often became rulers.   

[Badger]

Of course yes. What a silly question.

[Sestak]

The college left is currently trying to redefine "White" to mean basically "not oppressed". It's already seeped into the popular imagination a little bit with things like the trope about "Italians and Jews weren't considered White!" Which is absolutely 100% BS. Italians and Jews weren't liked, they were discriminated against, but no one thought they weren't White. Jews and Italians were allowed to marry WASPS when interracial marriage was illegal. Jews and Italians went to White schools when there was segregation. They have always been considered White. It's a really strange idea and it hasn't yet achieved full ideology hegemony over all of academia. Going off the past re-definitions of "gender" and "racism" though, I imagine they will ultimately be successful.

Exactly. Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Italians, etc. - regardless of religion - were all legally allowed to immigrate to the U.S. and become citizens under the pre-1965 naturalization acts which limited becoming citizens to "free white persons."

Uh, the Coolidge-era immigration laws placed strict quotas on a lot of these countries completely stifling immigration from them.

[Sir Mohamed]

Arabs are already considered "white" by the Census Bureau, so...

That's correct. I'll claim "white" as race in the upcoming 2020 census (my first one).

[Republican_Carpetbagger]

The college left is currently trying to redefine "White" to mean basically "not oppressed". It's already seeped into the popular imagination a little bit with things like the trope about "Italians and Jews weren't considered White!" Which is absolutely 100% BS. Italians and Jews weren't liked, they were discriminated against, but no one thought they weren't White. Jews and Italians were allowed to marry WASPS when interracial marriage was illegal. Jews and Italians went to White schools when there was segregation. They have always been considered White. It's a really strange idea and it hasn't yet achieved full ideology hegemony over all of academia. Going off the past re-definitions of "gender" and "racism" though, I imagine they will ultimately be successful.

Exactly. Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Italians, etc. - regardless of religion - were all legally allowed to immigrate to the U.S. and become citizens under the pre-1965 naturalization acts which limited becoming citizens to "free white persons."

Uh, the Coolidge-era immigration laws placed strict quotas on a lot of these countries completely stifling immigration from them.

The Johnson-Reed Act of 1924 didn't outright ban the entry of non-WASP Caucasians into the country, it merely limited their permitted immigration to at or below their proportion of the citizen population in 1890.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

No, because nobody is white.

This is correct, and nobody is black either.

Everyone is something in between that.

No human is as dark as this text is; the only such thing as black is things the exact same color as this text

No human is as bright as this text is; the only such thing as white is things the exact same color as this text

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

me

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Of course yes. What a silly question.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

No, because nobody is white.

This is correct, and nobody is black either.

Everyone is something in between that.

No human is as dark as this text is; the only such thing as black is things the exact same color as this text

No human is as bright as this text is; the only such thing as white is things the exact same color as this text

There are some very dark-skinned humans and some very pale-skinned humans:




That said, we're all the same on the inside and our modern concept of "race" is largely a sham.

[afleitch]

Yes. Prior to post war migration in Europe they almost exclusively were.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course yes. What a silly question.

I only asked it because of the stupidity of people who sort of try to draw a "white/Muslim" dichotomy, talking about how "a white guy did this terrorist act, not a Muslim, etc."

Funnily I heard this sort of thing hunting for the Boston Marathon bombers...and it turned out they were both white and Muslim!

[All Along The Watchtower]

If a Muslim is white, but no one is around to tell him/her that they are white, are they in fact white?

What is white?

[T'Chenka]

If a Muslim is white, but no one is around to tell him/her that they are white, are they in fact white?

What is white?

Irish, Slavic was "not white" in America 200 years ago. It's an ever-evolving, out-dated term that is sadly still relevant to us.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

If a Muslim is white, but no one is around to tell him/her that they are white, are they in fact white?

What is white?

Irish, Slavic was "not white" in America 200 years ago. It's an ever-evolving, out-dated term that is sadly still relevant to us.

That's not really true. Those ethnic groups might've been seen as distrusted and discriminated, but they were still considered white. They had high voter turnout when all non-whites were basically banned from voting. They could marry WASPs even with laws against interracial marriage on the books. They weren't banned from "Whites only" spaces under segregation. Etc.