Culture Gap Could Keep Democrats From Gaining Seats in 2006
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  Culture Gap Could Keep Democrats From Gaining Seats in 2006
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Author Topic: Culture Gap Could Keep Democrats From Gaining Seats in 2006  (Read 24227 times)
Virginian87
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« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2005, 03:37:50 PM »

We can support abortions with assault weapons. Are any Southerners on board?

LOL.  AK-47s for everybody!
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jfern
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« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2005, 03:38:01 PM »

And you accuse the left of being out of touch.

Sense of humour failure?

As a serious point, there isn't *much* of a working class in California, sure there's poor people but that's not the same at all...

Not the same at all? WTF do you mean by that? The cost of living is much higher here, BTW. How nice of you to ignore the California poor. There are a ton of homeless here.

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Interesting logic there
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What makes you say that Jones is more conservative than Bush?

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I think that it's perfectly fair to call someone who thinks that abortions are great an extremist
[/quote]

I never said they were great, I just said that I'm for a woman's right to choose? Understand the difference?

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Yeah, but what do *you* think an extremist is?[/quote]

Well, they seem to exist a lot more on other sides of the political compass. If I have to talk about Democratic extremists, I'd have to say Larouche supporters, but I'm not sure if there's even a place on the political compass for them.
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2005, 03:43:07 PM »

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Well, they seem to exist a lot more on other sides of the political compass. If I have to talk about Democratic extremists, I'd have to say Larouche supporters, but I'm not sure if there's even a place on the political compass for them.

If you're far right, you're an extremist.  If you're far left, you're not.  Does anyone see a double standard here?
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Virginian87
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« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2005, 03:47:54 PM »

I've never been to these places in California, but aren't places like Oakland and South Central LA filled to the gills with homeless people?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2005, 03:50:10 PM »

I've never been to these places in California, but aren't places like Oakland and South Central LA filled to the gills with homeless people?

Yes. And it's a big problem. I don't think they can be classed as working class though.
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jfern
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« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2005, 03:50:24 PM »

I've never been to these places in California, but aren't places like Oakland and South Central LA filled to the gills with homeless people?

Yes
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Storebought
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« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2005, 03:50:32 PM »

Apparently, some Democrats have decided to junk jfern's approach and adopt Al's:

Democrats Woo Values Voters

This is just a stunt until some upper-level Democrat apparatchik actually believes that this move is necessary for Democrat electoral survival. Until then, it is yet another frivolous p.r. makeover of the type Al Gore is famous for.
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jfern
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« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2005, 03:51:13 PM »

I've never been to these places in California, but aren't places like Oakland and South Central LA filled to the gills with homeless people?

Yes. And it's a big problem. I don't think they can be classed as working class though.

Some of them work. It's just that CA rents and housing values are insane. The federal government fails to take cost of living into consideration.
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Virginian87
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« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2005, 03:51:51 PM »

Long Beach and Compton are pretty working class. 
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jfern
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« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2005, 03:52:33 PM »

Apparently, some Democrats have decided to junk jfern's approach and adopt Al's:

Democrats Woo Values Voters

This is just a stunt until some upper-level Democrat apparatchik actually believes that this move is necessary for Democrat electoral survival. Until then, it is yet another frivolous p.r. makeover of the type Al Gore is famous for.

Wait, how does this contradict what I was arguing?

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Storebought
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« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2005, 03:55:25 PM »

I've never been to these places in California, but aren't places like Oakland and South Central LA filled to the gills with homeless people?

Yes. And it's a big problem. I don't think they can be classed as working class though.

Some of them work. It's just that CA rents and housing values are insane. The federal government fails to take cost of living into consideration.

Frankly, why sign up for government assistance to pay the $2750 per month rent of San Francisco when a much more rational option would be to simply move to a cheaper part of the country?

PBS ran a story of a woman in Chicago who did just that: rather than pay outrageous rents for a rat trap on the South Side, she packed her bags and moved to Wisconsin.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2005, 03:55:57 PM »

Not the same at all? WTF do you mean by that?

Should be obvious... unless you're a Maxist or summet...

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Doesn't have much to do with whether someone is working class or not

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Ignoring? No. Avoiding misleading labels? Yes.

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I didn't say he was. He's much more of a nutter though.

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Explain that

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In theory. No difference in practice. But then you support abortion as a form of social darwinism so...

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See Blue Rectangle's post

---
Al
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2005, 03:57:28 PM »

Kerry won CA by only 10 points, and it used to be fairly Republican, most recently going Republican in 1988.

And?

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I've given a fair few reasons why she's an extremist. You got a memory like a Goldfish or summet?

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Without putting too fine a point on it, if I wanted to steal an election I wouldn't have let it go within MoE like FL was...

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Really? I Had No Idea At All Because I Am An Uninformed Idiot

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Am I? I rather like most of the rustbelt Senators

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No; it's a classic example of legislating from the bench, has caused untold political divisions, has at it's heart a disgusting principle and the public is largely ignorant about it.
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A18
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« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2005, 03:59:47 PM »


Waiting for that to go in someone's sig...
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TheresNoMoney
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« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2005, 04:01:14 PM »

Apparently, some Democrats have decided to junk jfern's approach and adopt Al's:

Democrats Woo Values Voters

People are beginning to realize that destroying the middle class/working class and pissing on their economic futures is hardly a family value.
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jfern
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« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2005, 04:01:20 PM »

Not the same at all? WTF do you mean by that?

Should be obvious... unless you're a Maxist or summet...
Explain why you don't seem to care so much about the CA working class.

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Doesn't have much to do with whether someone is working class or not
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It does have quite a bit to do with how comfortably they can live on $6.50 an hour.

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Ignoring? No. Avoiding misleading labels? Yes.
[/quote]
What?

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I didn't say he was. He's much more of a nutter though.
[/quote]
What do you mean by that? He only appears to be out of the mainstream because CA is such a liberal state.

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Explain that
[/quote]
What more is there to say? I thought that explained it all. John Kerry said that he was personally opposed to abortion, but was for a woman's right to choose.

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In theory. No difference in practice. But then you support abortion as a form of social darwinism so...
[/quote]
What? I'm more left wing than you economically.

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See Blue Rectangle's post

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Al
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Whatever, can you explain what an extremist is? I've asked you several times, and you have been unable to explain. You are a really sh**tty arguer. At least J.J. is more convincing, even when he's 100% wrong.
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phk
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« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2005, 04:04:12 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.
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jfern
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« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2005, 04:05:24 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.

Shhh. People don't really work in California. Wink
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Virginian87
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« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2005, 04:06:27 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.

That's right!  The fruit-growers and such.  Not everyone there is a multi-millionaire with a vineyard.
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jfern
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« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2005, 04:06:36 PM »

Kerry won CA by only 10 points, and it used to be fairly Republican, most recently going Republican in 1988.

And?
Boxer won it by 20 points. Do I have to say anything more?

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I've given a fair few reasons why she's an extremist. You got a memory like a Goldfish or summet?
[/quote]
You reasons for her being an extremist were that she's loony left. Scrap the circular reasoning.
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Without putting too fine a point on it, if I wanted to steal an election I wouldn't have let it go within MoE like FL was...
[/quote]
That's a silly reason for claiming they didn't steal it.


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Am I? I rather like most of the rustbelt Senators
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Not as liberal as Boxer, although Feingold is pretty close, and Durbin is also pretty liberal.

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No; it's a classic example of legislating from the bench, has caused untold political divisions, has at it's heart a disgusting principle and the public is largely ignorant about it.
[/quote]

Well, I'm in the 65% that supports it, and you're in the 29% that opposes it. Since the Republican party already opposes it, don't you think it'd make sense for the Democratic party to support it, given those numbers?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2005, 04:11:46 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.

Most is IIRC. Not checked the stats for that area as much as I'd have liked to really...
I don't supose I need to point out that Boxer did much worse in the Central Valley than along the coast do I?

Shhh. People don't really work in California. Wink

Did I say that? No...

Not everyone there is a multi-millionaire with a vineyard.

And I never said that that was the case
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Virginian87
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« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2005, 04:14:36 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.

Most is IIRC. Not checked the stats for that area as much as I'd have liked to really...
I don't supose I need to point out that Boxer did much worse in the Central Valley than along the coast do I?

Shhh. People don't really work in California. Wink

Did I say that? No...

Not everyone there is a multi-millionaire with a vineyard.

And I never said that that was the case

Al, I wasn't accusing you of anything.  I realized a fact of California life.  I know you didn't say that. 
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A18
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« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2005, 04:15:51 PM »

More of Al's "arguments." This guy can not follow points at all.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2005, 04:21:31 PM »

Al, I wasn't accusing you of anything.  I realized a fact of California life.  I know you didn't say that. 

Ah, sorry... I'm tired and irritable at the moment...
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jfern
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« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2005, 04:22:52 PM »

The entire Central Valley is working-class.

Most is IIRC. Not checked the stats for that area as much as I'd have liked to really...
I don't supose I need to point out that Boxer did much worse in the Central Valley than along the coast do I?


She ran much better there than Kerry, and won 2 Bush counties there (she also won 3 Bush counties in SoCal).  True, Jones still did well in the area because of people voting against their own economic self interests.

Region
LA County Boxer 68-30 Kerry 63-35
SoCal (no LA) Boxer 52-46 Bush 46-53
Bay Area Boxer 74-24 Kerry 70-27
Coastal Cali Boxer 63-36 Kerry 59-37
Central Valley Jones 43-54 Kerry 37-61

The margin was
10 points better in LA County
13 points better in SoCal
6 points better in Bay Area
5 points better in Costal Cali
13 points better in Central Valley

She won the salad bowl of America, Montery County, 62.4-33.0.

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