Do you support Evergreen's permaban?
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  Do you support Evergreen's permaban?
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Author Topic: Do you support Evergreen's permaban?  (Read 7230 times)
Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2017, 01:34:52 PM »

What did she do, prudes?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2017, 01:38:14 PM »

Sinclair Lewis once said: "When fascism comes to Atlas it will be wrapped in a Polish avatar and carrying a master's degree."

Why are you trying to involve Nathan in this mess?
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ZuWo
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2017, 03:23:44 PM »

Yes. I don't know if it was mere edginess (which is annoying on its own and banworthy as well at a certain point) but quite a few of evergreen's posts strongly implied support for violence against political opponents.
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RFayette
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« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2017, 03:29:49 PM »

Yes. I don't know if it was mere edginess (which is annoying on its own and banworthy as well at a certain point) but quite a few of evergreen's posts strongly implied support for violence against political opponents.

I don't even think we have to say implied in this case - evergreen was pretty direct about it.
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ZuWo
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« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2017, 03:35:47 PM »

Yes. I don't know if it was mere edginess (which is annoying on its own and banworthy as well at a certain point) but quite a few of evergreen's posts strongly implied support for violence against political opponents.

I assume you also support banning Krazen, then?

If krazen expressed such views several times like evergreen did, then yes of course.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2017, 03:46:46 PM »

It's not that easy to get banned on Atlas, and the longer your tenure is, the more leniency is being applied. I should know, for I, objectively speaking, should've been banned during my earlier times. God, I was such a pest (some would say I still am, of course).

I mean, how many years it took to ban opebo? You have to go really hardcore, like Snowstalker's "last stand" of spam and scat porn, or like Evergreen inciting to violence to get ax'd quickly. Even if it's just a rant on an online forum, calling for violence is no-no.

Remember the forum itself is of secondary importance at best to Dave. If he notices disturbing patterns that could put his beloved Atlas in tough spot, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd just pull the plug on us. We were lucky in the aftermath of ModLeaks, but next time he might just cut his losses.


And once again, if you want Krazen to be dealt with, report his posts that you feel are against the ToS. Without going to any specific, he's among least-reported users Tongue
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2017, 04:06:04 PM »

It's not that easy to get banned on Atlas, and the longer your tenure is, the more leniency is being applied. I should know, for I, objectively speaking, should've been banned during my earlier times. God, I was such a pest (some would say I still am, of course).

I mean, how many years it took to ban opebo? You have to go really hardcore, like Snowstalker's "last stand" of spam and scat porn, or like Evergreen inciting to violence to get ax'd quickly. Even if it's just a rant on an online forum, calling for violence is no-no.

Wow, glad I missed that!
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2017, 04:57:32 PM »

It's not that easy to get banned on Atlas, and the longer your tenure is, the more leniency is being applied. I should know, for I, objectively speaking, should've been banned during my earlier times. God, I was such a pest (some would say I still am, of course).

I mean, how many years it took to ban opebo? You have to go really hardcore, like Snowstalker's "last stand" of spam and scat porn, or like Evergreen inciting to violence to get ax'd quickly. Even if it's just a rant on an online forum, calling for violence is no-no.

Wow, glad I missed that!
He also posted anti-semitic content in regards to Dave Leip.
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dead0man
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« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2017, 08:00:45 PM »

Yeah, the regular old anti-Semitism was cool for years from Snowbigot, but point it at Dave once and your gone!


edit-at least all the bigots can still hang out together at the toxic place.
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LLR
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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2017, 08:05:10 PM »

I'm mildly amused that the HP rating is 9% lower than the Support Ban rating with the same number of voters. I know it could just be the same set less five FF voters replaced by five haters, you wouldn't think all people who vote HP want somebody banned on the spot. This is much tougher bar to get past.

As a no/HP voter, I am equally amused.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2017, 08:06:36 PM »

Yes. I don't know if it was mere edginess (which is annoying on its own and banworthy as well at a certain point) but quite a few of evergreen's posts strongly implied support for violence against political opponents.

I assume you also support banning Krazen, then?

If krazen expressed such views several times like evergreen did, then yes of course.

Wasn't there a conservative poster who said something like "we should do this to liberals" on a story about someone or a group of people getting beat up? I vaguely recall that. I don't think they were banned either.
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LLR
LongLiveRock
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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2017, 08:19:45 PM »

Yes. I don't know if it was mere edginess (which is annoying on its own and banworthy as well at a certain point) but quite a few of evergreen's posts strongly implied support for violence against political opponents.

I assume you also support banning Krazen, then?

If krazen expressed such views several times like evergreen did, then yes of course.

Wasn't there a conservative poster who said something like "we should do this to liberals" on a story about someone or a group of people getting beat up? I vaguely recall that. I don't think they were banned either.

Ah yes, Classic Conservative. No idea how he's still around.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2017, 09:07:10 PM »

Lots of what Classic Conservative says is trolling.  We had a rather pleasant conversation in the IRC about this last week, actually.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2017, 01:48:12 AM »

In CC's defense, that was a sarcastic comment, as was his "abortion/beheading" kerfuffle. Evergreen's posts came from a genuine sense of malice.
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LLR
LongLiveRock
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2017, 09:00:18 AM »

In CC's defense, that was a sarcastic comment, as was his "abortion/beheading" kerfuffle. Evergreen's posts came from a genuine sense of malice.
'
Uh, no... Evergreen was just as sarcastic as CC is, probably moreso? At least she doesn't want to reclaim the holy land?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2017, 09:21:20 AM »

In CC's defense, that was a sarcastic comment, as was his "abortion/beheading" kerfuffle. Evergreen's posts came from a genuine sense of malice.
'
Uh, no... Evergreen was just as sarcastic as CC is, probably moreso? At least she doesn't want to reclaim the holy land?

Saying stuff like that, while incredibly moronic, is not against the ToS per se. If he were to say something like "let's kill more muslims", it'd be a diffrent story.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2017, 09:29:44 AM »
« Edited: June 18, 2017, 09:31:29 AM by او انگلیسی است »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team? Be on a constant lookout all over the forum in order to "get" people like CC, Krazen or Evergreen, or be chill, cautious and react when we're alarmed? You can't have both ways.

Every time I have a private conservation and this issue pops out, I suggest actually reporting posts by these fellows that in your view are against the ToS, but I constantly hear something like "I don't care that much", "I'm not going to read his posting history" etc.

Well, fine, but then don't complain "why is nothing being done with XXX". I hate to appear like someone saying "inform the authorities on thy fellow poster", but this function exists for a reason.

And no worries, after the last controversy the team decided no reports we'll consider as frivolous will be posted publicly.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2017, 01:41:28 PM »

No, I think it was very weak
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2017, 02:14:26 PM »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team? Be on a constant lookout all over the forum in order to "get" people like CC, Krazen or Evergreen, or be chill, cautious and react when we're alarmed? You can't have both ways.

Every time I have a private conservation and this issue pops out, I suggest actually reporting posts by these fellows that in your view are against the ToS, but I constantly hear something like "I don't care that much", "I'm not going to read his posting history" etc.

Well, fine, but then don't complain "why is nothing being done with XXX". I hate to appear like someone saying "inform the authorities on thy fellow poster", but this function exists for a reason.

And no worries, after the last controversy the team decided no reports we'll consider as frivolous will be posted publicly.

Speaking for myself at least, what I'm most interested in is consistency in ToS enforcement.  I don't care about the stuff krazen posts in and of itself because I deliberately read and listen to offensive stuff every day, all the time, that contradicts my beliefs.  But he's tolerated so much by the mod team that it has created the impression that he is bulletproof while others aren't so fortunate.  He found the sweet spot between what is deemed ban-able and what is just gruelingly offensive.  People don't like it.  He was banned for a week (or was it a month?) with the expectation that he would reform himself and he did not.

Though to be fair, maybe krazen wouldn't be so much of a problem if people simply didn't respond to his posts or attempt to sway his opinion all the time.  I've told at least a few people here (actually, maybe it was just Virginia since she asked me about him) that he's a confirmed troll, because Keystone Phil (R.I.P) indicated such.  Alas, internet rage is very contagious, I suppose, and that's what leads to threads getting derailed.  The ignore button is way underused here.

(Also, remember that evergreen wasn't banned simply for calling Sanchez "Gollum" or "mocking" America after the Scalise shooting; it was a history of repeat behavior that the mods deemed unacceptable.)
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2017, 02:26:52 PM »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team? Be on a constant lookout all over the forum in order to "get" people like CC, Krazen or Evergreen, or be chill, cautious and react when we're alarmed? You can't have both ways.

Every time I have a private conservation and this issue pops out, I suggest actually reporting posts by these fellows that in your view are against the ToS, but I constantly hear something like "I don't care that much", "I'm not going to read his posting history" etc.

Well, fine, but then don't complain "why is nothing being done with XXX". I hate to appear like someone saying "inform the authorities on thy fellow poster", but this function exists for a reason.

And no worries, after the last controversy the team decided no reports we'll consider as frivolous will be posted publicly.

Speaking for myself at least, what I'm most interested in is consistency in ToS enforcement.  I don't care about the stuff krazen posts in and of itself because I deliberately read and listen to offensive stuff every day, all the time, that contradicts my beliefs.  But he's tolerated so much by the mod team that it has created the impression that he is bulletproof while others aren't so fortunate.  He found the sweet spot between what is deemed ban-able and what is just gruelingly offensive.  People don't like it.  He was banned for a week (or was it a month?) with the expectation that he would reform himself and he did not.

Though to be fair, maybe krazen wouldn't be so much of a problem if people simply didn't respond to his posts or attempt to sway his opinion all the time.  I've told at least a few people here (actually, maybe it was just Virginia since she asked me about him) that he's a confirmed troll, because Keystone Phil (R.I.P) indicated such.  Alas, internet rage is very contagious, I suppose, and that's what leads to threads getting derailed.  The ignore button is way underused here.

(Also, remember that evergreen wasn't banned simply for calling Sanchez "Gollum" or "mocking" America after the Scalise shooting; it was a history of repeat behavior that the mods deemed unacceptable.)

Yes, there's a green area many of our "problematic" posters exploit. FamousMortimer was especially good at that: carefully dosing his hateful and truly offensive posts, so he wouldn't end up under the radar, and it took a poster taking a time to make a case against him that led to temporary ban.

As of krazen, there might be indeed reluctance to report him/state a case against him because the community feels it's a waste of time since "he's bulletproof". And even if he's under the radar now, there's a general agreement between the mods to proceed slowly, give formal warnings etc. Evergreen herself got like two warnings aside of temporary ban, so the first time she crossed the line again there was little choice but to pull the plug. Still, no one is really "bulletproof", we've said the same thing about opebo, haven't we?

As of ignore function, there's one fundamental flaw. You can still click a "show" link (and, let's be honest, many of us just can't stop themselves), in addition to seeing quoted posts. That is why I myself hardly ever used the iggy function. Honestly, if the forum settings are ever modified, we should have a real ignore function. Doesn't AAD have something like this?
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2017, 02:35:37 PM »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team? Be on a constant lookout all over the forum in order to "get" people like CC, Krazen or Evergreen, or be chill, cautious and react when we're alarmed? You can't have both ways.

Every time I have a private conservation and this issue pops out, I suggest actually reporting posts by these fellows that in your view are against the ToS, but I constantly hear something like "I don't care that much", "I'm not going to read his posting history" etc.

Well, fine, but then don't complain "why is nothing being done with XXX". I hate to appear like someone saying "inform the authorities on thy fellow poster", but this function exists for a reason.

And no worries, after the last controversy the team decided no reports we'll consider as frivolous will be posted publicly.

Speaking for myself at least, what I'm most interested in is consistency in ToS enforcement.  I don't care about the stuff krazen posts in and of itself because I deliberately read and listen to offensive stuff every day, all the time, that contradicts my beliefs.  But he's tolerated so much by the mod team that it has created the impression that he is bulletproof while others aren't so fortunate.  He found the sweet spot between what is deemed ban-able and what is just gruelingly offensive.  People don't like it.  He was banned for a week (or was it a month?) with the expectation that he would reform himself and he did not.

Though to be fair, maybe krazen wouldn't be so much of a problem if people simply didn't respond to his posts or attempt to sway his opinion all the time.  I've told at least a few people here (actually, maybe it was just Virginia since she asked me about him) that he's a confirmed troll, because Keystone Phil (R.I.P) indicated such.  Alas, internet rage is very contagious, I suppose, and that's what leads to threads getting derailed.  The ignore button is way underused here.

(Also, remember that evergreen wasn't banned simply for calling Sanchez "Gollum" or "mocking" America after the Scalise shooting; it was a history of repeat behavior that the mods deemed unacceptable.)

Yes, there's a green area many of our "problematic" posters exploit. FamousMortimer was especially good at that: carefully dosing his hateful and truly offensive posts, so he wouldn't end up under the radar, and it took a poster taking a time to make a case against him that led to temporary ban.

As of krazen, there might be indeed reluctance to report him/state a case against him because the community feels it's a waste of time since "he's bulletproof". And even if he's under the radar now, there's a general agreement between the mods to proceed slowly, give formal warnings etc. Evergreen herself got like two warnings aside of temporary ban, so the first time she crossed the line again there was little choice but to pull the plug. Still, no one is really "bulletproof", we've said the same thing about opebo, haven't we?

As of ignore function, there's one fundamental flaw. You can still click a "show" link (and, let's be honest, many of us just can't stop themselves), in addition to seeing quoted posts. That is why I myself hardly ever used the iggy function. Honestly, if the forum settings are ever modified, we should have a real ignore function. Doesn't AAD have something like this?

Eh.  The AAD function isn't that different from the one here (you can still click on an ignored person's post if you want to see it).  The difference is that you have to click on the person's profile and then block or unblock them.  (This I discovered last week when jmfcst made a thread blaming gay people for Scalise's shooting.  Glad I don't have to deal with his BS there anymore.)
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2017, 03:22:22 PM »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team?

not to ban good posters
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dead0man
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« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2017, 03:33:42 PM »

they haven't
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2017, 03:55:13 PM »
« Edited: June 18, 2017, 04:01:01 PM by او انگلیسی است »

To be really frank, what do you, as the community, really expect from the mod team?

not to ban good posters

Oh, so we're back on "yeah, opebo's pretty bad in general, but hey, he posts on Thai politics!"

What's really sad about Evergreen is that she was actually a very good poster before going off the cliff after the last election. Plenty of people were, and are, very upset, but managed not to go banana.

If she, as I hope, manages to get her emotions under control, I'd be more than happy to support her reinstatement if she applies for it in a year period. We've let permabanned posters back in before and with very few exceptions (Libertas) it worked out well.
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Badger
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« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2017, 04:17:32 PM »

Can someone please without violating the terms of service summarize what Evergreen did to be Perma banned? Also, what did she receive repeated warnings about?
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