Otto Warmbier, US student sent home from North Korea, dies

[ProudModerate2]

North Korea is a terrible place, and the horrible direction it has gone since the Korean War should be a lesson for all nations. But it is hard for me to see criticism like the above coming from my fellow Americans and take it as credible when we live in the same nation that actually bombs people on a daily basis, and where Sheriff Clarke is considered for high government positions instead of incarcerated in his own jail awaiting trial.

Perhaps we should pay less attention to the daily hate for people on the far side of the world, and take off the comfortable blinders we wear at home.

I have never defended, nor will I ever defend, Sheriff Clarke.
He is just as much a clown as the orange one.
There are many in the trump administration who don't deserve, or have the qualifications, to be in high government positions.
I don't see why you would think I support any of this, because I have done nothing but scream hell for the past year about the narcissistic fool. There are no "comfortable blinders" here.

As far as bombing people on a daily basis, well that is a complicated matter. What I do feel somewhat certain about, is that our (USA) defense officials try to control any collateral damage to a bare minimum. We don't intentionally target innocent civilians (unlike Syria with their barrel bombs). But we need to remember that it is war, and there will be some unnecessary deaths ... there always is.
Decisions about war and bombing are difficult. If you don't bomb then some innocent lives are spared (if they were near the kill zone), but if you do bomb, then future lives are saved due to the elimination of the targeted enemy.
War is complicated and ugly ... no other way around it. (Remember also, that ISIS is not a formal country/government. There is ZERO chance of trying to reason with, or to find peace with, these monsters.)

[ProudModerate2]

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to trump.

[This is Eharding, guys]

What's weird is that I actually know that guy, in an internet sense. We posted on the same comic book message board for years.

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain. It's just a stew of paranoia, hatred, and barely contained violence.

Can you tell us more? What do you think caused this?

[SoLongAtlas]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

While I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out. At least I know China tried!
2:38 PM · Jun 20, 2017

That and we just flew more B1 practice runs but those were scheduled before. Donald is like screw this can kicking at this point and frankly, I agree with him.

[ProudModerate2]

Any decisions about war with North Korea must be coordinated with the South Koreans.
We basically need their "OK" to do anything.
The South Koreans have the most to lose if war breaks out.
If the North were to nuke the South, there could be hundreds-of-thousands of innocent people killed (instantaneously). We cannot have that on our shoulders.

I don't want war.
But we need to figure out a (peaceful) way to control or eliminate the North's ability to modernize their nuclear capability, and their launch vehicles (long range missiles).

[SoLongAtlas]

We need to really put the screws to China on this and say enough is enough. What Xi did re recent actions against NK were half measures at best. NK needs to be sanctioned to the point of breaking, all exports to NK stopped, and Chinese missile tech going to Pyongyang seized (Chinese guidance, etc has gone over many times and that is searchable online unclassified).

Yes, the response would be massive if we had to do something but people forget that we and SK are still at war, no treaty was signed, and act accordingly. The NKs do on a daily basis and we dither around for decades while they bide their time.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to trump.

Oh, it's essentially accurate for him as well.

[Helsinkian]

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I didn't know Koreans were brown.

[Mr. Reactionary]

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I didn't know Koreans were brown.

Basically anyone who doesnt fall into the current outgroup is said to be "of colours", which is often substituted with "brown people" within the context of strawmaning the intentions of the scapegoat of fictional rich, right handed white patriarchs who cause all societal problems while sipping champagne. Saying brown allows the racialists to pretend that samoan fishermen, arab housewives, bolivian coca farmers, and Kim jong un are part of some sort of common identity group.

[Kingpoleon]

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to trump.

No you didn't. Not if you read the first paragraph.

[ProudModerate2]

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to trump.

No you didn't. Not if you read the first paragraph.

Of course I didn't .... it was a joke.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

North Korea is a terrible place, and the horrible direction it has gone since the Korean War should be a lesson for all nations. But it is hard for me to see criticism like the above coming from my fellow Americans and take it as credible when we live in the same nation that actually bombs people on a daily basis, and where Sheriff Clarke is considered for high government positions instead of incarcerated in his own jail awaiting trial.

Perhaps we should pay less attention to the daily hate for people on the far side of the world, and take off the comfortable blinders we wear at home.

I have never defended, nor will I ever defend, Sheriff Clarke.
He is just as much a clown as the orange one.
There are many in the trump administration who don't deserve, or have the qualifications, to be in high government positions.
I don't see why you would think I support any of this, because I have done nothing but scream hell for the past year about the narcissistic fool. There are no "comfortable blinders" here.

As far as bombing people on a daily basis, well that is a complicated matter. What I do feel somewhat certain about, is that our (USA) defense officials try to control any collateral damage to a bare minimum. We don't intentionally target innocent civilians (unlike Syria with their barrel bombs). But we need to remember that it is war, and there will be some unnecessary deaths ... there always is.
Decisions about war and bombing are difficult. If you don't bomb then some innocent lives are spared (if they were near the kill zone), but if you do bomb, then future lives are saved due to the elimination of the targeted enemy.
War is complicated and ugly ... no other way around it. (Remember also, that ISIS is not a formal country/government. There is ZERO chance of trying to reason with, or to find peace with, these monsters.)

It's not that I think you support Trump and his like. I wasn't particularly trying to single out your post. It's just that there's this general feel going around the zeitgeist (not even you personally) of "ooh, look how bad North Korea is" and "we should really Do Something about NK/Kim Jong Un".

Take a step back and look at the US from the viewpoint of some neutral middle power. Do we look any better than North Korea? Evil spoiled clown for a President? Check. Threaten other nations? Check. Violate international law? Check.  Have a basically decent neighboring country we simultaneously trade with while our leader denounces them? Check.

No, I wouldn't want to visit North Korea. It's a scary, scary place. But if I was from some neutral middle power, I'm not sure that I would find the US with it's Orwellian borders, rampant violence, broken legal system and horrible prisons any more appealing.

War is a horrible, horrible thing and we Americans are far to casual about it, and about what is being done in our name.  You mention Assad's barrel bombs. Let us not forget,

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/world/middleeast/syria-airstrikes-civilians.html

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(I also keep hearing reports that we're targeting Syrian infrastructure, but nothing I can verify.)
And yeah, we're "attacking" ISIS. Illegally. With deplorable allies. And sometimes we bomb the people fighting ISIS. All as part of geopolitical maneuvering to stick it to Russia and Iran.  As a follow up to a civil war that was largely driven by the prior war we started in Iraq.  This isn't WWII. If we were doing this because ISIS is evil (and they are), we could make it a national effort, throw a million men and $5 trillion at ISIS in cooperating with Russia, China, and everyone else from Andorra to Zimbabwe and turn Syria into Germany post-WWII in six months. But that's not going to happen, because this is the Great Game redux.

I'm seeing way to much thinking along the lines of "Hey, let's turn North Korea into the next Syria because Kim Jong Un is a Bad Guy" without any understanding of how terrible that idea is. They people of North Korea deserve the Kim family less than the US deserves the Trump family. But neither the citizens of the US nor the people of North Korea deserve to have their lives destroyed just because their leaders are evil. War isn't going to fix North Korea, it will just be a disaster. It's important to remember that.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Terrible tragedy

Also: I've seen some "woke" keyboard warriors on Twitter screaming about how mourning Otto is only because of his "white privilege," many of the same who gleefully mocked him last year when he was captured because in Asia, "white privilege" doesn't protect you, or something.

I wanted to get off my chest here what an execrable position this is to take after a man was murdered by a criminal regime, and that this flies awfully close to the line of logic that blacks "had it coming" when they are gunned down by the police.

/endrant

Very sad.
Why the hell anyone would want to go to North Korea is beyond me.

Curiosity about a notorious society.

Most American visitors are safe so long as they visit at a time of relative calm and take no action that could be mistaken as a stand against the regime. Many visitors simply can't bring themselves to act apolitically once there.

Relative calm ?
When is there ever "relative clam" in North Korea. It seems that everyday their official government-controlled news talks about nuking the USA, with an accompanying video showing a mushroom explosion over The White House or The Capitol.
Their leader killed his own uncle, for Pete's sake !
How can anyone see this country as calm and safe to visit (vacation) ?
No amount of "curiosity" would take me there.

North Korea is a terrible place, and the horrible direction it has gone since the Korean War should be a lesson for all nations. But it is hard for me to see criticism like the above coming from my fellow Americans and take it as credible when we live in the same nation that actually bombs people on a daily basis, and where Sheriff Clarke is considered for high government positions instead of incarcerated in his own jail awaiting trial.

Perhaps we should pay less attention to the daily hate for people on the far side of the world, and take off the comfortable blinders we wear at home.

David Clarke is sheriff of a single county in the US and thus no American anywhere is ever allowed to criticize any other country. Brilliant logic.

[KingSweden]

A good start would be kicking banks that do business with the Norks out of the SWIFT system. The Kim family has financial resources the rest of the DPRK lacks

[Kingpoleon]

I think he's genuinely insane. Not his opinions. There's something very wrong with his brain.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to trump.

No you didn't. Not if you read the first paragraph.

Of course I didn't .... it was a joke.

You're a clever one, aren't you?