House Dems work to declare Trump incapacitated under the 25th amendment

[Middle-aged Europe]

The bill which is currently supported by 25 House Dems - including John Conyers as Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee - proposes the creation of an "Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity" which would hold the same kind of authority as the U.S. Cabinet to declare that the president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.

This proposal is based on the following line from Section 4 of the 25th amendment:

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-create-panel-remove-trump-office-quietly-picks-democratic-support-124521145.html

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Good. We could use a stronger Congress, and more than that, Trump really is unable to act a President. This morning's tweet is one of many things that makes that very obvious.

[emailking]

This would need 2/3 support in both houses as Trump presumably would veto the bill. Granted, that's the same threshold anyway for upholding a challenge to being disposed by the cabinet.

[kyc0705]

This would need 2/3 support in both houses as Trump presumably would veto the bill. Granted, that's the same threshold anyway for upholding a challenge to being disposed by the cabinet.

Would a measure declaring the president incapacitated have to be approved by the president? It seems to me that the resolution would be delivered to the President Pro Tem of the Senate.

[Coraxion]

I've never really been a fan of impeachment or this, because I think Pence would be worse and more effective in implementing a conservative agenda.

^{Not that Ryan and McConnell would let their God-Emperor be removed from office...}

[emailking]

This would need 2/3 support in both houses as Trump presumably would veto the bill. Granted, that's the same threshold anyway for upholding a challenge to being disposed by the cabinet.

Would a measure declaring the president incapacitated have to be approved by the president? It seems to me that the resolution would be delivered to the President Pro Tem of the Senate.

The move is to pass a bill to give Congress the power to do this. (They don't currently have the power to say he's incapacitated, just to specify who can say he is.) So it has to pass the same as any other bill. Either he signs/ignores it, or it passes over his veto.

[Vosem]

Good! I unfortunately had to miss the Impeachment March in the city of Cleveland this morning, but I had been quite excited to get together with the #Resistance and march for the Pence Presidency.

[The_Doctor]

He definitely doesn't care about being President. He wants the media attention rather than leaving a sizable legacy. It's taken me a while to grasp this but he doesn't care about the job, he cares about the media attention and sees himself as a showman selling the WWF of the Presidency.

The legacy doesn't matter to him. The showman aspect does and presenting a media spectacle.

[Suburbia]

Ha. Trump's base won't put up with this. Yes, Trump is crazy, but he has core supporters. They'll think that the Deep State is all in on this.

Trump needs to stop the wild tweets and move on to job creation or some other topic.

[The Mikado]

Also, even with such a body, A. they'd need Pence to sign on, and B. Trump can still do the thing where he sends a letter saying "I'm OK, guys" and Congress has three weeks to have both houses vote with 2/3rds majorities to remove him permanently.

[HAnnA MArin County]

This country is screwed either way for the next 3.5/4 years, even if Democrats take back control of Congress because that'll just give Donald the Menace more ammunition to spout off his juvenile tweets blaming Democrats for being obstructionists to "making America great again." Pence would be scarier as President and would do all he could to impose a Christian theocracy on us.

[The Dowager Mod]

Meaningless posturing.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Meaningless posturing.

[krazen1211]

If you can't win elections, steal power from the winner! Smart folks.

A big flaw in the plan is that Pence is not going to steal the Presidency.

[TheSaint250]

What's a majority in this case? 3/4, 2/3, or 1/2 + 1

[SteveRogers]

Yeah... even if a democratic congress could get such a bill passed, the 25th Amendment isn't really an effective vehicle for forcibly removing an incompetent president.

First, the committee AND the Vice President would have to transmit a letter to the Speaker and President pro tem declaring Trump to be incapacitated under the 25th Amendment. So Pence becomes Acting President. Okay, then what? Well, Trump would transmit a letter to congress declaring that no such inability exists. Then Trump regains the presidency unless the Vice President (and either a majority of the cabinet or this new committee) transmits a letter to congress stating that Trump is still incapacitated.

Okay, let's say Pence goes along with all this and agrees to continue to declare the President disabled. Then you need 2/3 of both houses of congress to vote within 21 days to declare the president incapacitated in order to keep Trump out of office.

Moreover, by my reading of the 25th Amendment, you would potentially need congress to hold that 2/3 vote every 21 days since Trump could continually send a new letter to congress declaring himself no longer incapacitated.

[Santander]

Politics of division.

[pbrower2a]

I've never really been a fan of impeachment or this, because I think Pence would be worse and more effective in implementing a conservative agenda.

^{Not that Ryan and McConnell would let their God-Emperor be removed from office...}

Much as I despise Pence, I can think of worse.

World War III.

[Sumner 1868]

I've never really been a fan of impeachment or this, because I think Pence would be worse and more effective in implementing a conservative agenda.

^{Not that Ryan and McConnell would let their God-Emperor be removed from office...}

Much as I despise Pence, I can think of worse.

World War III.

Pence will probably invade Syria, so...

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I've never really been a fan of impeachment or this, because I think Pence would be worse and more effective in implementing a conservative agenda.

^{Not that Ryan and McConnell would let their God-Emperor be removed from office...}

Much as I despise Pence, I can think of worse.

World War III.

For a while, I was thinking that ANYONE would be better than Trump, but I'm slowly losing that conviction. Don't get me wrong - he deserves to be impeached or otherwise legally forced from office. Politics aside, he is grossly unfit to do the job on any level. But I'm increasingly skeptical that an ambitious talk-radio host who puts his born-again "Christian" faith over everything else (including common sense and functioning in society) is going to be any better, just differently worse.

Of course, Pence probably ought to be impeached / legally booted as well, given how he lied to cover for Flynn. (Doubtless he has some convoluted rationale to explain why bearing false witness was okay in this case.) Which would give us President Ryan - an intermittently devout conservative Catholic and Randian from the same school of Republican "thought" than gave us Sam Brownback's Kansas.

Trump is a symptom. The damage he is doing needs to be stopped and healed. But getting him out of office isn't going to do a darned thing to *fix* the problems that lead to him. America has a host of very real problems that need to be addressed. And as a separate issue, the anti-intellectual, anti-freedom, anti-citizen, un-American GOP needs to be utterly discredited, disgraced, and dis-empowered. (Not that the Dems aren't dysfunctional on their own.)

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Oh come on!

This isn't going to get anyone healthcare, or define the Democrats positively. It's certainly not going to get Trump out of office.

Who the heck do they think they're talking to here?! The base? I'm the base and this is just pathetic.