Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[EnglishPete]

I just don't understand why people like EnglishPete are trying to "win" the discussion here. There is no winning to be had, and nothing you post here will have any impact on anything that happens. It'd be nice if we could have threads that don't get derailed from legitimate discussion about new developments in stories like these, but apparently we can't have that.

Discussing politics on discussion boards like this is a hobby of mine just like it is for you. I'm quite happy engaging in legitimate discussion here, it seems you would prefer if the discussion was one sided. If you think my posts are too partisan I'd point out that my posting is rather less heatedly partisan than posts by people like Proudmoderate2 etc in this thread.

There really isn't another side besides "bothsidez do it!!1" or muh "THIS IS A VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACY".

I understand that some people, like yourself would prefer not to discuss the issue but prefer to pretend that yours is the only real side to the argument.

[Crumpets]

lol:

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That last line is awfully ironic, given that, when Putin offered to renew the New START Treaty, Trump turned him down.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/09/trump-putin-call-nuclear-deal-new-start-treaty

[ProudModerate2]

EnglishPete is desperate.
When you have someone trying to defend trump jr because jr did not also "mention the furniture in the room or the haircuts of the participants," you know this person is wacked-out of their mind.
There is zero, none, nada of a comparison between the people in a crucial meeting like this and "furniture."

You have got to be insane to even think of this as a defense, yet alone write it down for others to read in black and white.

[ProudModerate2]

If you think my posts are too partisan I'd point out that my posting is rather less heatedly partisan than posts by people like Proudmoderate2 etc in this thread.

LOL.
The problem is that you think people view your posts as "too partisan."
You got it all wrong !
It's that your posts are insane, with wacky conspiracy theories. Look at what your posting, you even have images of small square pictures of people, with arrows pointing from one image to another image on how they are interconnected. You do it better (Not!) than Hollywood does, when we go to see a movie on Saturday night.
I'm still waiting for you to post another wacky story, on how little green people from Mars also conspired to trick trump jr to this meeting. Can we have that one also ?

[The Mikado]

[GeorgiaModerate]

#17 seems particularly on point here.

[The Mikado]

#17 seems particularly on point here.

My favorite is #21.

[afleitch]

#17 seems particularly on point here.

This is a thing of beauty.

'What about Chappaquiddick' as every fifth response or so is just genius.

[The Mikado]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

Go for it. History board is open for that sort of thing.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

Go for it. History board is open for that sort of thing.

Especially since it was a witch hunt since Nixon's main problem was Bobby's crash at Chappaquiddick denied him the chance to beat a Kennedy for a change.

[GeorgiaModerate]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

Go for it. History board is open for that sort of thing.

Especially since it was a witch hunt since Nixon's main problem was Bobby's crash at Chappaquiddick denied him the chance to beat a Kennedy for a change.

Teddy, not Bobby.  I actually have a newspaper that I saved from Apollo 11's landing on the moon (July 20, 1969) and it has a tiny article on the front page talking about Sen. Kennedy being involved in a car accident at Chappaquiddick.

[The Other Castro]

Also, I would advise checking this out, it's a great read. Here are the main points with more details found in the article.

Lawfare's Seven Theories of Trump/Russia Collusion

#1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events

#2: Trump Attracted Russophiles

#3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All

#4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know

#5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known

#6: Kompromat

#7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

https://www.lawfareblog.com/seven-theories-case-what-do-we-really-know-about-laffaire-russe-and-what-could-it-all-mean

[GeorgiaModerate]

Also, I would advise checking this out, it's a great read. Here are the main points with more details found in the article.

Lawfare's Seven Theories of Trump/Russia Collusion

#1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events

#2: Trump Attracted Russophiles

#3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All

#4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know

#5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known

#6: Kompromat

#7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

https://www.lawfareblog.com/seven-theories-case-what-do-we-really-know-about-laffaire-russe-and-what-could-it-all-mean

That's the best article I've seen yet on this affair.  Thanks for posting the link.  IMO #4 and #5 seem like the most plausible.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

February 07, 1974 09:08:03 am »   

Nixon has managed to end another Democrat war with honor and dignity. He completely crushed the acid, amnesty and abortion lunatic McGovern a few years ago as well. The heartland stands with Nixon against this nasty Liberal smear campaign. Time will prove Nixon was in the right. His honesty and integrity knows no bounds. The Democrats are too busy cozying up to Communists to support the commander in chief. It is very sad to see the Democrats and Liberals buying into these weird conspiracy theories. Harry Truman would be rolling in his grave folks.

[Santander]

Classy of you to put so much effort into mocking other posters.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

We need a Nixon Impeachment thread so I can go full EnglishPete. I keep wanting to argue that Nixon's impeachment was a real witch hunt by Tip O'Neill and his Democratic gang but keep feeling the thread isn't the right place for it. OTOH, it might not be the wisest thing to demonstrate my rabid Nixon bonafides.

Eh, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

As you were.

Go for it. History board is open for that sort of thing.

Especially since it was a witch hunt since Nixon's main problem was Bobby's crash at Chappaquiddick denied him the chance to beat a Kennedy for a change.

Teddy, not Bobby.  I actually have a newspaper that I saved from Apollo 11's landing on the moon (July 20, 1969) and it has a tiny article on the front page talking about Sen. Kennedy being involved in a car accident at Chappaquiddick.

Ah.  I forgot that it isn't common knowledge that Bobby and Teddy traded places and faces in an attempt to save him from the mafia that killed their brother.  Of course, when the mafia got him they decided it would be better to ruin Bobby's chances to succeed his brother.  Perhaps if Jack hadn't died when his PT boat was sunk by the Amagiri, the four Kennedy brothers, Joe Jr., Jack, Bobby, and Teddy, would have amounted to something more than a part term presidency for Joe Jr.

[Virginiá]

I mean that's all well and good, but what it tells me is maybe that we need to start booting more presidents out of office to establish an unambiguous message that corruption will not be tolerated. I'm willing to tolerate some shenanigans from both sides (not that I'd be happy with it or wouldn't want a censure perhaps in some cases), but I absolutely 100% draw the line when it comes to monkeying with our elections. If you feel you need to suppress voting by the opposition, break into your opponent's offices to steal documents and bug phones, do extensive GOTV in cemeteries and/or reach out to foreign adversaries for opposition research and smear campaigns, then you should never hold political office, nor should such crimes go unpunished.

[EnglishPete]

Also, I would advise checking this out, it's a great read. Here are the main points with more details found in the article.

Lawfare's Seven Theories of Trump/Russia Collusion

#1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events

#2: Trump Attracted Russophiles

#3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All

#4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know

#5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known

#6: Kompromat

#7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

https://www.lawfareblog.com/seven-theories-case-what-do-we-really-know-about-laffaire-russe-and-what-could-it-all-mean

Or how about #8 it never happened. Lets have a look at the article

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This claim is based on the Crowdstrike report. The FBI and the CIA have declared that they are happy to take Crowdstrike's word for it without checking the DNC servers themselves. However Crowdstrike have a history of making fictional claims of this kind and the DBC's refusal to allow the FBI or the NSA to check the servers to confirm for themselves renders their entire claim even more suspect.

Notice that for about a year now proponents of the Trump/Russian hacking conspiracy theory have avoided entirely arguing for this claim on the basis of the evidence. Instead they have made a shibboleth of the claim, loudly demanding that everyone affirm their faith in this claim and accusing them of being unpatriotic if they do.

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This isn't true either. Lets have a look at their examples.

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Talking with the Ambassador was part of his job at the time, although this was spun into a big scandal

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And? What has that got to do with Russia?

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So firstly yes, Page was "never part of the Trump inner circle". As for his connections being "serious enough for the FISA Court to issue a warrant" the Administration of the time was looking for any excuse to snoop on the Trump campaign any anyone who might be associated with it. They wouldn't need much of an excuse to request a warrant and the FISA court rarely refuses a request.

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Hooray, finally we get to a senior campaign figure with real substantial links to Russia. What did he do?

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Nope that's fake news from the Jeff Bezos Blog, there was no such 'stripping of language' from the platform.

And that's it. So the most likely explanation of this article's "constellation of facts" is  #8 that in reality they're not facts but bullsh**t. Certainly makes more sense than 1-7.

[AtorBoltox]

EnglishPete's posts are a really sad insight into mental illness

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Also, I would advise checking this out, it's a great read. Here are the main points with more details found in the article.

Lawfare's Seven Theories of Trump/Russia Collusion

#1: It’s All a Giant Set of Coincidences and Disconnected Events

#2: Trump Attracted Russophiles

#3: The Russian Operation Wasn’t Really About Trump at All

#4: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—But Trump Didn’t Know

#5: Russian Intelligence Actively Penetrated the Trump Campaign—And Trump Knew or Should Have Known

#6: Kompromat

#7: The President of the United States is a Russian Agent

https://www.lawfareblog.com/seven-theories-case-what-do-we-really-know-about-laffaire-russe-and-what-could-it-all-mean

That's the best article I've seen yet on this affair.  Thanks for posting the link.  IMO #4 and #5 seem like the most plausible.

Looks like it leaves out my most likely scenario: Trump has been dealing with shady Russian money for decades, and whatever (if anything) happened is tied to that. It may just be that he doesn't want all those dealing to come to light.

[ProudModerate2]

Even trump's own attorney is trying to lie their way-out of this mess.
But, they were caught red-handed with their bs ....  just like Little donny jr ....

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[ProudModerate2]

The orange-haired clown is at it again.
He just cant seem to control himself with his Tweets.
These are from Sunday :

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[Hindsight was 2020]

The orange-haired clown is at it again.
He just cant seem to control himself with his Tweets.
These are from Sunday :

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What a b*tch

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342225-trump-lawyer-secret-service-wouldnt-let-trump-jr-take-nefarious

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/16/politics/donald-trump-jr-jay-sekulow-secret-service/index.html

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So.... Trump's lawyer says the Secret Service screened the meeting. The Secret Service says they were only protecting Trump. There's one way both of those can be true.

[Hindsight was 2020]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/342225-trump-lawyer-secret-service-wouldnt-let-trump-jr-take-nefarious

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/16/politics/donald-trump-jr-jay-sekulow-secret-service/index.html

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So.... Trump's lawyer says the Secret Service screened the meeting. The Secret Service says they were only protecting Trump. There's one way both of those can be true.

I thing people are reading too much into that. I'm pretty sure Sekulow was just trying to act like SS are bodyguards who would be at the Trump Tower lobby room letting people in, in order to trick stupid people at home to raise doubts