How Democrats Can heal the Schism in Their Party
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Author Topic: How Democrats Can heal the Schism in Their Party  (Read 3095 times)
TDAS04
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2017, 03:36:38 PM »

It's not "identity politics". It's civil rights. If anyone is playing identity politics, it's the GOP.

Except when the GOP does it, they win. When the Dems play it, they come across as SJWs and "out-of-touch big city elitists that we don't take too kindly to around here" Just saying...

Sad, but true.  I think Democrats need to figure out how to more effectively expose the terrible identity politics of the GOP.  On the other hand, I would think that Trump's and the GOP's identity politics are blatant enough that voters should be able to figure it out by themselves, but unfortunately, the GOP still keeps winning.  Hopefully Democrats can learn how to message.

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

Hopefully there's truth in that.  It would be great if Democrats could use populism get the not-so-rich to just vote their economic interests, while maintaining a solidly social liberal agenda to ensure that most non-bigoted voters will continue to reject the venom of Trump Republicans.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2017, 04:15:59 PM »

The rancor of the split within the Democratic party at the moment is baffling, considering the policy splits are basically nonexistent.
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uti2
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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2017, 06:13:47 PM »

The idea Hillary Clinton ran a campaign on a strong civil rights agenda is blatant revisionism.

Agreed. Anybody who thought Clinton even had a coherent narrative to voters beyond being third term Obama is lying to themselves. I still can't figure out what her core message was. I know what Trump's was: trade and immigration. Hillary? Could've been anything.

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

I think that a lot of it can be attributed to Trump though. I don't think Rubio or Kasich would've lost the PV against Clinton.

Imagine the former post in the context of your latter post. She was going to run an Obama 2012 style economic populist campaign and run as a successor to Obama similar to Bush Sr., Truman or LBJ. All the plans were made, she only widely diverged from her original strategy specifically due to Trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

https://newrepublic.com/minutes/137093/clinton-campaign-decision-made-may-doom-down-ballot-democrats

By the way, the 1920s GOP ran on platforms of isolationism and protectionism. None of the GOP candidates were offering anything remotely close to that besides Trump. Both of the two you mentioned backed the TPP, as did almost all of the GOP candidates.

Would it be that difficult to run a populist campaign against a guy who wanted to cut Mitt Romney's net income tax liability to zero (by abolishing capital gains/dividends taxes)?
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2017, 07:08:30 PM »

The idea Hillary Clinton ran a campaign on a strong civil rights agenda is blatant revisionism.

Agreed. Anybody who thought Clinton even had a coherent narrative to voters beyond being third term Obama is lying to themselves. I still can't figure out what her core message was. I know what Trump's was: trade and immigration. Hillary? Could've been anything.

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

I think that a lot of it can be attributed to Trump though. I don't think Rubio or Kasich would've lost the PV against Clinton.

Imagine the former post in the context of your latter post. She was going to run an Obama 2012 style economic populist campaign and run as a successor to Obama similar to Bush Sr., Truman or LBJ. All the plans were made, she only widely diverged from her original strategy specifically due to Trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

https://newrepublic.com/minutes/137093/clinton-campaign-decision-made-may-doom-down-ballot-democrats

By the way, the 1920s GOP ran on platforms of isolationism and protectionism. None of the GOP candidates were offering anything remotely close to that besides Trump. Both of the two you mentioned backed the TPP, as did almost all of the GOP candidates.

Would it be that difficult to run a populist campaign against a guy who wanted to cut Mitt Romney's net income tax liability to zero (by abolishing capital gains/dividends taxes)?

If you're Hillary Rodham Clinton trying to run as the 2016 Democratic candidate, yes, it's very difficult to run as a populist even if your opponent or Rubio or Kasich. She's seen by too many people as being emblematic of the Washington system and too "neoliberal" for the progressive base.

Plus Kasich and Rubio would've shored up much more support from Romney-Clinton voters and minorities.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2017, 07:22:46 PM »

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

I think that a lot of it can be attributed to Trump though. I don't think Rubio or Kasich would've lost the PV against Clinton.

They would've, and easily. Trump really WAS the only one who could expose all these flaws. Because with all his, he could foul the whole process up and show the divides as they really are while the media kept trying to artificially even things out for horse-races' sake.

Hillary would've run a 2012-esque campaign and probably won easily given how utterly lacking in charisma everyone else in the clown car was in every sense. Little different from Nixon vs the 1972 field of Democrats in that sense.

Also, Bush '88 pulled it off despite most of the same accusations on him, while Dukakis was an outsider. I have little doubt Rubio would've been Dukakis'd in such a situation.

Trump turned it into 1976 though.

The former case was that of the in-party slowly coming apart and barely holding on, but ripe pickens for booted hard next election with the next big flop and with a moderate caretaker policy in-between

The latter (and the result) is a case of the in-party getting barely taken out by a desperate wilderness party ramming the biggest non-establishment through the convention and hoping it works and thus foisting the struggles onto the new in-party.

Either way, the schism is there.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2017, 07:36:00 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2017, 07:37:45 PM by Technocracy Timmy »

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

I think that a lot of it can be attributed to Trump though. I don't think Rubio or Kasich would've lost the PV against Clinton.

They would've, and easily. Trump really WAS the only one who could expose all these flaws. Because with all his, he could foul the whole process up and show the divides as they really are while the media kept trying to artificially even things out for horse-races' sake.

Hillary would've run a 2012-esque campaign and probably won easily given how utterly lacking in charisma everyone else in the clown car was in every sense. Little different from Nixon vs the 1972 field of Democrats in that sense.

Also, Bush '88 pulled it off despite most of the same accusations on him, while Dukakis was an outsider. I have little doubt Rubio would've been Dukakis'd in such a situation.

Trump turned it into 1976 though.

The former case was that of the in-party slowly coming apart and barely holding on, but ripe pickens for booted hard next election with the next big flop and with a moderate caretaker policy in-between

The latter (and the result) is a case of the in-party getting barely taken out by a desperate wilderness party ramming the biggest non-establishment through the convention and hoping it works and thus foisting the struggles onto the new in-party.

Either way, the schism is there.

Not a chance. Hillary Clinton had a 56% unfavorability rating and was the most disliked Presidential candidate in moderate American history (minus Trump at 65%). 2/3's of Americans thought she was untrustworthy. She barely beat the most disliked candidate in American history by 2 percentage points.

Rubio and Kasich wouldn't have had such god awful unfavorables (certainly nowhere near Trump's 65%). I don't believe for one minute that Hillary Clinton could've defeated either of these men in the PV or EC given the plethora of problems she had against such a weak candidate in Trump. Her campaign was always gonna be a mess between the old guard battling it out with the rising figures from the Obama camp. To this day I haven't been able to figure out what her campaign narrative was.
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uti2
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« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2017, 08:03:23 PM »

Tom Perrielo basically hits on the themes of the upcoming realignment, which is the shift from neoliberalism to populism. He understands that if the Democratic Party emphasizes economic growth and equality but maintains the socially liberal ideology they had they can win a realigning election. There's a reason Hillary won the popular vote with Bernie's platform and it wasn't all Trump's fat mouth.

I think that a lot of it can be attributed to Trump though. I don't think Rubio or Kasich would've lost the PV against Clinton.

They would've, and easily. Trump really WAS the only one who could expose all these flaws. Because with all his, he could foul the whole process up and show the divides as they really are while the media kept trying to artificially even things out for horse-races' sake.

Hillary would've run a 2012-esque campaign and probably won easily given how utterly lacking in charisma everyone else in the clown car was in every sense. Little different from Nixon vs the 1972 field of Democrats in that sense.

Also, Bush '88 pulled it off despite most of the same accusations on him, while Dukakis was an outsider. I have little doubt Rubio would've been Dukakis'd in such a situation.

Trump turned it into 1976 though.

The former case was that of the in-party slowly coming apart and barely holding on, but ripe pickens for booted hard next election with the next big flop and with a moderate caretaker policy in-between

The latter (and the result) is a case of the in-party getting barely taken out by a desperate wilderness party ramming the biggest non-establishment through the convention and hoping it works and thus foisting the struggles onto the new in-party.

Either way, the schism is there.

Not a chance. Hillary Clinton had a 56% unfavorability rating and was the most disliked Presidential candidate in moderate American history (minus Trump at 65%). 2/3's of Americans thought she was untrustworthy. She barely beat the most disliked candidate in American history by 2 percentage points.

Rubio and Kasich wouldn't have had such god awful unfavorables (certainly nowhere near Trump's 65%). I don't believe for one minute that Hillary Clinton could've defeated either of these men in the PV or EC given the plethora of problems she had against such a weak candidate in Trump. Her campaign was always gonna be a mess between the old guard battling it out with the rising figures from the Obama camp. To this day I haven't been able to figure out what her campaign narrative was.

It was originally the same as Obama's. Run as a populist, anti-TPP, attacking the wealthy, opposing free trade deals, etc. It was a continuation of Obama's 2012 plan. She changed her strategy dramatically against Trump if you read the links.

Her unfavorables were literally the same as Jeb and Cruz, and Cruz's unfavs only skyrocked in the last couple months of the campaign as a result of Trump's attacks (which included the same kind of National Enquirer hysteria/conspiracy theories that Hillary had been subjected to). You also saw rubio's numbers following the same trend, but he dropped out sooner. Check the trendlines on the data.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2017, 08:07:25 PM »

The problem with Hillary co-opting that strategy is that the progressive base associates her with her husband and not Obama (2008 primaries featured Obama hammering her on trade and Iraq). Plus she's been in Washington DC since 1993. She could've ran that strategy, but it would've been just as much of a flop as Trump running as a compassionate conservative in 2020. She's one of the worst messengers for such a narrative out of everybody in the Party. She's even on video tape record saying the TPP is the gold standard.

Rubio and Kasich's favorables would've declined as a result of polarization. But there's no way in Hell they could've gotten anywhere close to Trump's 65%. They would've hovered below Clinton's. Maybe 50% or so.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2017, 08:13:18 PM »

Clinton would have lost due to the email scandal tanking her credibility, no matter who her GOP opponent was.
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uti2
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2017, 08:16:59 PM »

Clinton would have lost due to the email scandal tanking her credibility, no matter who her GOP opponent was.

That's what was said about Iran-Contra and Bush.
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uti2
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2017, 08:18:13 PM »

The problem with Hillary co-opting that strategy is that the progressive base associates her with her husband and not Obama (2008 primaries featured Obama hammering her on trade and Iraq). Plus she's been in Washington DC since 1993. She could've ran that strategy, but it would've been just as much of a flop as Trump running as a compassionate conservative in 2020. She's one of the worst messengers for such a narrative out of everybody in the Party. She's even on video tape record saying the TPP is the gold standard.

Rubio and Kasich's favorables would've declined as a result of polarization. But there's no way in Hell they could've gotten anywhere close to Trump's 65%. They would've hovered below Clinton's. Maybe 50% or so.

How did Gore win the popular vote despite progressive hatred?

Gore actually ran a campaign very similar to James Cox. On the other hand, Hillary ran almost entirely as a successor to Obama. Don't forget that the conservative base also hated Bush Sr. in 1980.

In 1988, Bush Sr. had a contrast in the form of Dukakis, Hillary's conventional opponent would've been a total contrast. Unlike in 2000, where Bush tried to blur the lines by opposing interventionism and supporting medicare expansion, Hillary was to the left of a conventional opponent on pretty much every single issue. As far as Hillary's interventionist streak goes, in a contrast, her interventionist policies would clearly be less hawkish than a conventional republican's. It would be definitively clear who the more left wing candidate would be.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2017, 08:20:25 PM »

Clinton would have lost due to the email scandal tanking her credibility, no matter who her GOP opponent was.

That's what was said about Iran-Contra and Bush.
Great, who cares. We're talking about the 2016 election, not 1988.
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uti2
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« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2017, 08:24:56 PM »

Clinton would have lost due to the email scandal tanking her credibility, no matter who her GOP opponent was.

That's what was said about Iran-Contra and Bush.
Great, who cares. We're talking about the 2016 election, not 1988.

The point is that scandals don't make the candidate. Bill Clinton had many scandals and he was still reelected and his successor also won the popular vote.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2017, 08:27:05 PM »

The progressive base in 2016 grew significantly over the course of those 16 years leading up to it. Gore and 2000 isn't comparable in any way, shape, or form in that regard. Bush was also on track to win the PV until the DUI scandal hit a week before the election. Gore tied Bush with 18-24 year old voters and Gore won the elderly demographic. That's so patently different from how 2016 broke down that I think it's silly to compare the two.

You do realize that progressives, young people, minorities, etc. despise Trump just as much as any other Republican right? It's not as though a Kasich or Rubio candidacy was gonna gin up any more support for Secretary Clinton from those groups than Trump did. She was a horrible fit for a lot of progressives and younger voters. They don't like her, they don't like the Clintons, they don't want the 90's style of Democratic politics coming back, etc.

So long as Kasich and Rubio didn't brag about grabbing p*ssy they would've won the PV.
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uti2
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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2017, 08:34:05 PM »

The progressive base in 2016 grew significantly over the course of those 16 years leading up to it. Gore and 2000 isn't comparable in any way, shape, or form in that regard. Bush was also on track to win the PV until the DUI scandal hit a week before the election. Gore tied Bush with 18-24 year old voters and Gore won the elderly demographic. That's so patently different from how 2016 broke down that I think it's silly to compare the two.

You do realize that progressives, young people, minorities, etc. despise Trump just as much as any other Republican right? It's not as though a Kasich or Rubio candidacy was gonna gin up any more support for Secretary Clinton from those groups than Trump did. She was a horrible fit for a lot of progressives and younger voters. They don't like her, they don't like the Clintons, they don't want the 90's style of Democratic politics coming back, etc.

So long as Kasich and Rubio didn't brag about grabbing p*ssy they would've won the PV.

If you want to talk about the DUI story, then Hillary was also on her way to winning the election until the comey announcement, which was precipitated by Comey acting on a forged russian intelligence document designed to assist Trump.

Conservatives hated Bush Sr. as I pointed out, they supported him anyway.

By the way, it's interesting to note how Harding totally ignored Cox (despite Cox trying to distance himself from Wilson) and focused on running against Wilson, that's very similar to Bush ignoring Gore and focusing on Clinton(Lewinsky). Bush wanted to restore 'morality' to the White House that had been gone for the past 8 years.

'76 was also all about Nixon. In contrast, as you point out, this election was very much about Hillary, similar to how '88 and '48 were about Bush and Truman.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2017, 08:39:44 PM »

The progressive base in 2016 grew significantly over the course of those 16 years leading up to it. Gore and 2000 isn't comparable in any way, shape, or form in that regard. Bush was also on track to win the PV until the DUI scandal hit a week before the election. Gore tied Bush with 18-24 year old voters and Gore won the elderly demographic. That's so patently different from how 2016 broke down that I think it's silly to compare the two.

You do realize that progressives, young people, minorities, etc. despise Trump just as much as any other Republican right? It's not as though a Kasich or Rubio candidacy was gonna gin up any more support for Secretary Clinton from those groups than Trump did. She was a horrible fit for a lot of progressives and younger voters. They don't like her, they don't like the Clintons, they don't want the 90's style of Democratic politics coming back, etc.

So long as Kasich and Rubio didn't brag about grabbing p*ssy they would've won the PV.

If you want to talk about the DUI story, then Hillary was also on her way to winning the election until the comey announcement, which was precipitated by Comey acting on a forged russian intelligence document designed to assist Trump.

Agreed.

Conservatives hated Bush Sr. as I pointed out, they supported him anyway.

Reagan had won by 18 points in 1984 (a 9 point improvement from his 1980 performance) whereas Obama had won by only 4 points (which was a 3 point decline from his 2012 performance). The GOP had a much better base of support going into the 1988 presidential election than the Democrats did in 2016.

By the way, it's interesting to note how Harding totally ignored Cox (despite Cox trying to distance himself from Wilson) and focused on running against Wilson, that's very similar to Bush ignoring Gore and focusing on Clinton(Lewinsky). Bush wanted to restore 'morality' to the White House that had been gone for the past 8 years.

'76 was also all about Nixon. In contrast, as you point out, this election was very much about Hillary, similar to how '88 and '48 were about Bush and Truman.
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uti2
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« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2017, 08:44:50 PM »

The progressive base in 2016 grew significantly over the course of those 16 years leading up to it. Gore and 2000 isn't comparable in any way, shape, or form in that regard. Bush was also on track to win the PV until the DUI scandal hit a week before the election. Gore tied Bush with 18-24 year old voters and Gore won the elderly demographic. That's so patently different from how 2016 broke down that I think it's silly to compare the two.

You do realize that progressives, young people, minorities, etc. despise Trump just as much as any other Republican right? It's not as though a Kasich or Rubio candidacy was gonna gin up any more support for Secretary Clinton from those groups than Trump did. She was a horrible fit for a lot of progressives and younger voters. They don't like her, they don't like the Clintons, they don't want the 90's style of Democratic politics coming back, etc.

So long as Kasich and Rubio didn't brag about grabbing p*ssy they would've won the PV.

If you want to talk about the DUI story, then Hillary was also on her way to winning the election until the comey announcement, which was precipitated by Comey acting on a forged russian intelligence document designed to assist Trump.

Agreed.

Conservatives hated Bush Sr. as I pointed out, they supported him anyway.

Reagan had won by 18 points in 1984 (a 9 point improvement from his 1980 performance) whereas Obama had won by only 4 points (which was a 3 point decline from his 2012 performance). The GOP had a much better base of support going into the 1988 presidential election than the Democrats did in 2016.

By the way, it's interesting to note how Harding totally ignored Cox (despite Cox trying to distance himself from Wilson) and focused on running against Wilson, that's very similar to Bush ignoring Gore and focusing on Clinton(Lewinsky). Bush wanted to restore 'morality' to the White House that had been gone for the past 8 years.

'76 was also all about Nixon. In contrast, as you point out, this election was very much about Hillary, similar to how '88 and '48 were about Bush and Truman.

Obama was also the most recent president in history to be re-elected with a lower re-election margin besides guess who? FDR.

Bill won by 10 points in '96, while LBJ and Nixon '72 both won by 20+, they didn't help their parties in the following cycles.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2017, 08:52:00 PM »

Bill Clinton didn't win a popular vote majority either time and LBJ basically unleashed hell to a big chunk of the Democratic base (southern whites with the VRA and CRA). You have a good point about Nixon though. 1976 was a very weird aberration.

FDR did better in 1936 than 1932 by all metrics. It's pretty difficult to one up your 1936 victory when you're going for an unprecedented third term and your last victory featured a PV win by a gargantuan 25 points.
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« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2017, 09:00:08 PM »

This is overblown the Republican had so many schism's over the past years. I remember several articles of the coming 'GOP civil war' that never came the party was unified against Obama and that was that mattered. The Dem party under Bush had the same divisions progs vs. blue dogs, SoCons vs. Libs that was kept together by their hatred of Bush.
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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2017, 09:00:55 PM »

The problem isn't "identity politics" as such. The problem is that the identity Democrats appeal to is a terrible one.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2017, 09:05:43 PM »

This is overblown the Republican had so many schism's over the past years. I remember several articles of the coming 'GOP civil war' that never came the party was unified against Obama and that was that mattered. The Dem party under Bush had the same divisions progs vs. blue dogs, SoCons vs. Libs that was kept together by their hatred of Bush.

Both Parties curently have schisms, but the GOP isn't one that gonna be easily reconciled the way the schism in the Democratic Party can. Democrats can solve their schism by moving to the left. The GOP have a much bigger problem trying to reconcile right wing nationalist populism with Reaganite conservatism. These two visions are usually in direct conflict with one another.
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uti2
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« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2017, 09:18:21 PM »

This is overblown the Republican had so many schism's over the past years. I remember several articles of the coming 'GOP civil war' that never came the party was unified against Obama and that was that mattered. The Dem party under Bush had the same divisions progs vs. blue dogs, SoCons vs. Libs that was kept together by their hatred of Bush.

Both Parties curently have schisms, but the GOP isn't one that gonna be easily reconciled the way the schism in the Democratic Party can. Democrats can solve their schism by moving to the left. The GOP have a much bigger problem trying to reconcile right wing nationalist populism with Reaganite conservatism. These two visions are usually in direct conflict with one another.

And again, this dynamic wouldn't have presented itself without Trump, who was a pseudo-third party candidate. So, if Trump had lost the primary while smearing his opponent nominee with conspiracy theories and calling the whole system 'rigged', how would the GOP have reconciled that?
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2017, 09:23:42 PM »

This is overblown the Republican had so many schism's over the past years. I remember several articles of the coming 'GOP civil war' that never came the party was unified against Obama and that was that mattered. The Dem party under Bush had the same divisions progs vs. blue dogs, SoCons vs. Libs that was kept together by their hatred of Bush.

Both Parties curently have schisms, but the GOP isn't one that gonna be easily reconciled the way the schism in the Democratic Party can. Democrats can solve their schism by moving to the left. The GOP have a much bigger problem trying to reconcile right wing nationalist populism with Reaganite conservatism. These two visions are usually in direct conflict with one another.

And again, this dynamic wouldn't have presented itself without Trump, who was a pseudo-third party candidate. So, if Trump had lost the primary while smearing his opponent nominee with conspiracy theories and calling the whole system 'rigged', how would the GOP have reconciled that?

Their base would've been #anybodybutHillary.

I can't think of a Third Party run that hurt a political Party which had already been on the political outs of the WH for 8 years.
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« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2017, 09:30:27 PM »

This is overblown the Republican had so many schism's over the past years. I remember several articles of the coming 'GOP civil war' that never came the party was unified against Obama and that was that mattered. The Dem party under Bush had the same divisions progs vs. blue dogs, SoCons vs. Libs that was kept together by their hatred of Bush.

Both Parties curently have schisms, but the GOP isn't one that gonna be easily reconciled the way the schism in the Democratic Party can. Democrats can solve their schism by moving to the left. The GOP have a much bigger problem trying to reconcile right wing nationalist populism with Reaganite conservatism. These two visions are usually in direct conflict with one another.

And again, this dynamic wouldn't have presented itself without Trump, who was a pseudo-third party candidate. So, if Trump had lost the primary while smearing his opponent nominee with conspiracy theories and calling the whole system 'rigged', how would the GOP have reconciled that?

Their base would've been #anybodybutHillary.

I can't think of a Third Party run that hurt a political Party which had already been on the political outs of the WH for 8 years.

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« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2017, 09:31:48 PM »

Big tent parties will always have schisms within them, it's more a question of whether or not those schisms are things the partisans are willing to overlook for the sake of their mutual shared interest or whether they see the internal civil war as a more pressing concern. It turns out most activists prefer a party based on some philosophical views rather than an irrational preference for the letters D or R. So that tension will almost always be there somewhere.
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