The Majority Of Republicans Think Colleges Are Bad For The U.S., Poll Shows
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  The Majority Of Republicans Think Colleges Are Bad For The U.S., Poll Shows
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Poll
Question: Are colleges good for bad for the US?
#1
Good (D/lean D)
 
#2
Good (R/lean R)
 
#3
Bad (D/lean D)
 
#4
Bad (R/lean R)
 
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Total Voters: 108

Author Topic: The Majority Of Republicans Think Colleges Are Bad For The U.S., Poll Shows  (Read 8837 times)
Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2017, 06:07:28 PM »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

So you'd prefer people to be stupid. Got it.

So you assume that a collage degree automatically equals intelligence?

I wish I went to collage.
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JA
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« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2017, 06:09:12 PM »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

So you'd prefer people to be stupid. Got it.

So you assume that a collage degree automatically equals intelligence?

I wish I went to collage.

I think Goldwater needs to take a break today lmao
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2017, 06:12:32 PM »

     One could write a book to fully address this question. There are many ways in which they contribute positively and many ways in which they contribute negatively. I am not comfortable approaching it as a simple yes or no.

You're joking? You seriously think that the existence of American universities has an ambiguous effect on the US as a country?

That anyone would even consider that is one of the most moronic things I've heard. Jesus Christ.

     They have done a lot of good historically. They still do a lot of good today, but L.D. Smith is right; the system is deeply flawed. We shouldn't look at only the good and ignore the role they have played in the proliferation of debt among naive young adults or trends in admissions that have promoted social stratification, just to name a couple of problems associated with higher education today.
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Cashew
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« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2017, 06:22:34 PM »


There really is more to life than sex, sweets, material gain and indulgence, chemical highs, cheap thrills, pop culture,  and bureaucratic power; poorly-educated people generally do not know that.       

Can you point me to any studies proving the uneducated and poor are more prone to hedonism Huh

There is in fact a place that those people go to, usually on a sunday that teaches them about a higher meaning to life-you may not like it, and they are often hypocritical, but they are not lacking in immaterial values. I'm not trying to single you out specifically but this is the kind of condecensing bs that costs Democrats rural voters.
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Tekken_Guy
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« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2017, 06:23:34 PM »

Increased hostility towards the rival party is definitely a factor here. A lot of right-wingers have had negative sentiments grow towards the left's cultural and social institutions (media, Hollywood, academia) and vice versa with the left's feelings towards churches, talk radio, etc.
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Green Line
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« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2017, 06:26:58 PM »

They're pretfy bad, but its a necessary evil.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2017, 06:31:52 PM »

Disgusting culture of idiocracy; the ultimate dumbing down of our society signals an imminent collapse.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2017, 06:42:58 PM »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

So you'd prefer people to be stupid. Got it.

So you assume that a collage degree automatically equals intelligence?

I wish I went to collage.

I think Goldwater needs to take a break today lmao

Ugh, typos don't discredit my point. Tongue
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Goldwater
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« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2017, 06:43:50 PM »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

So you'd prefer people to be stupid. Got it.

So you assume that a collage degree automatically equals intelligence?

I would bet that the vast majority of the time, anyone who graduates from a college/university would be "more intelligent" than someone who never attended at all.

See, I don't think that education is really the same ting as education, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.


lol, you know what I meant to say.
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Goldwater
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« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2017, 06:54:53 PM »

Anyway, all I am really trying to say is don't let your college degree turn you into a judgmental asshole with a superiority complex.
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JA
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« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2017, 06:58:06 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2017, 07:02:07 PM by Jacobin American »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

So you'd prefer people to be stupid. Got it.

So you assume that a collage degree automatically equals intelligence?

I would bet that the vast majority of the time, anyone who graduates from a college/university would be "more intelligent" than someone who never attended at all.

See, I don't think that education is really the same ting as education, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.


lol, you know what I meant to say.

I did, I did! But you know I couldn't pass up that opportunity.

Seriously though, I agree with you. Having a college degree doesn't equal intelligence. I'm quite certain that on average college graduates have a higher IQ than non-college graduates, but that still means there are plenty of grads who're less intelligent than non-grads (not to mention IQ isn't the most reliable indicator of intellectual capacity, let alone human worth). People seem to forget that even today, college is still generally a privilege and there are countless talented students who're unable to obtain a degree due to numerous factors, just as there are spoiled rich kids who show up and maintain a C average then graduate. America isn't a pure meritocracy (nor can I say that would be ideal, either).
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Gustaf
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« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2017, 07:04:42 PM »

     One could write a book to fully address this question. There are many ways in which they contribute positively and many ways in which they contribute negatively. I am not comfortable approaching it as a simple yes or no.

You're joking? You seriously think that the existence of American universities has an ambiguous effect on the US as a country?

That anyone would even consider that is one of the most moronic things I've heard. Jesus Christ.

     They have done a lot of good historically. They still do a lot of good today, but L.D. Smith is right; the system is deeply flawed. We shouldn't look at only the good and ignore the role they have played in the proliferation of debt among naive young adults or trends in admissions that have promoted social stratification, just to name a couple of problems associated with higher education today.


Right...so let's weight it up.

Cons: some people get debt, some gender studies majors can be annoying, some people waste a few years on degrees

Pros: you have doctors, engineers, scentists. Medicine, bridges, computers. Trained professionals who can do advanced labour.

I feel uncomfortable answering yes or no here, it's a real toughie.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2017, 07:09:51 PM »

    One could write a book to fully address this question. There are many ways in which they contribute positively and many ways in which they contribute negatively. I am not comfortable approaching it as a simple yes or no.

You're joking? You seriously think that the existence of American universities has an ambiguous effect on the US as a country?

That anyone would even consider that is one of the most moronic things I've heard. Jesus Christ.

Would you say that still if colleges suddenly started acting like Bob Jones or other Creditless Christian Schools or if University of Phoenix types became even more prominent than they already are?

Not hard to deny the current system is deeply, deeply flawed.

Doesn't mean the positive don't outweigh the negatives of course.

If there were a few more crazy college courses I'd still think it's more important to have doctors in the country I live in, yes. And I'd find it totally moronic for anyone to disagree.
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« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2017, 07:20:00 PM »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example ).

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2017, 07:36:02 PM »

    One could write a book to fully address this question. There are many ways in which they contribute positively and many ways in which they contribute negatively. I am not comfortable approaching it as a simple yes or no.

You're joking? You seriously think that the existence of American universities has an ambiguous effect on the US as a country?

That anyone would even consider that is one of the most moronic things I've heard. Jesus Christ.

Would you say that still if colleges suddenly started acting like Bob Jones or other Creditless Christian Schools or if University of Phoenix types became even more prominent than they already are?

Actually, Bob Jones just last month completed the requirements to become fully accredited by SACS, which is the accrediting agency for colleges and universities in this area.
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« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2017, 07:51:40 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2017, 07:54:05 PM by Old School Republican »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example ).

Could more ironic words be said by a Business Major?


Accounting,Finance , Supply Chain Management are better for society than Actvist degrees.


Also I believe buisness is good for society, while having a socirty filled with SJW is  not

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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2017, 08:51:10 PM »

Hot take: colleges and churches are both lean good.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2017, 08:58:27 PM »


There really is more to life than sex, sweets, material gain and indulgence, chemical highs, cheap thrills, pop culture,  and bureaucratic power; poorly-educated people generally do not know that.       

Can you point me to any studies proving the uneducated and poor are more prone to hedonism Huh

Not the point. Considering the jobs that the poor and uneducated usually end up with, they need more mindless hedonism (whether theme park admissions, pop music, dumb TV, attendance at sporting events) as a reward for performing their crappy jobs.

Educated people as a rule become almost the entire group of leadership beyond the level of 'foreman'. As far as that goes, an educated person who becomes a shop steward in a factory isn't wasting his education. He may be better at it for understanding accounting, psychology, and the dirty tricks of language.

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I'm not going to knock religion unless it becomes pure superstition. The great body of learning within the churches, including the great writings of the Church Fathers, is not superstition. Paying attention to Scripture is not superstition. Rejection of evolution is superstition. Writing to some post-office box for a 'prayer cloth' that one is expected to mail back (with a 'love gift') so that the televangelist can pray over it is superstition.  Praying to saints that have been shown by historical fact to have never existed once such is shown is superstition.

Religion has always been a needed comfort to many people in distress. The paraphrase of Karl Marx that religion is the opiate of the masses must remind one that there are legitimate uses for opiates -- like masking enough pain so that people can live somewhat normally.  

I have tried religion in some times of distress, and I did not get good results.  I faced a tormentor on the web who accused me of homosexual child molestation in a tough time (my mother was dying and eventually died during the time). This tormentor claimed to be a Christian. I tried to get my father into religious participation so that he would get some comfort in his time of more intimate distress than mine.

The church service has a time in which the preacher asks people to offer concerns about which the preacher can pray. Usually those are about health, job security, finances, and relationships. The youth minister wasn't busy at the time so I went up to him and discussed my plight. I said that accusations of homosexuality were something to brush off because homosexuality, which is not a personal choice, is something for me to dispatch easily with "it's not true, but so what if it were?" Child molestation of any kind is a serious crime, and accusing someone of it when it can hurt one's intended professional life is a nasty libel.

I suggested that one of my heroes, Martin Luther King, had plenty of enemies who wanted him professionally destroyed or even killed. I figured what Dr. King did about them -- he prayed for those people, including segregationist pols and even racist terrorists. Do you think he took out voodoo dolls and stuck pins in them? So we would pray for my tormentor and announce what we did. So we prayed that he would be delivered from his unjust ways.

So we prayed, and soon after the church service I put on the web what we did. So what did this defamer say?

You? Prayed for me? You (it rhymes with maggot) can't possibly be a Christian. You still mess with boys.

...So much for the alleged power of prayer. He still got expelled from that forum. But that's what one expects of an internet troll -- evil.  All it is safer to pray for one's enemies than to try to ruin them.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2017, 09:22:09 PM »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example).


What matters is that someone 22 years old comes out of college better than he was at age 18 -- with a broader view of reality, more intellectual openness, better at communications, being able to address ethical issues, and having better ways to find happiness. Truth be told, brilliant 18-22-year-olds are bulls in the china shop in business and industry; 18-22-year-old dullards are useful even if not very productive. The University has been the playground for bright young men so that they don't shake up the wrong things when they are most tempted to do so since the Middle Ages. Getting a little older and more intellectually-refined, no matter what the field, they are less likely to shake things up, whether in theology or in politics.

Republicans are now heavily the party of the white dullard, someone with a cr@ppy job and whose behavior off the job doesn't matter so long as he doesn't shake things up  (as with crime or drugs). So what if he vegetates on  an easy chair in front the Idiot Screen watching vapid sitcoms, reality programming, witless movies, or televised sports while getting fat on snacks and either sugary or alcoholic drinks? Maybe he will die of a fatal heart attack at age 46 -- after his children are in the workforce -- so that his Social Security contributions are forfeit. Such implies more funds for the educated elite, even if being elite means that one is 'merely' a schoolteacher or clergy.   

Sure, educated people would consider such a way of life little more attractive than a prison term -- but educated people are the ones making the good money. They will retire with a pension, some savings, and Social Security payments... and go traveling to Berlin, Bora-Bora, Buenos Aires, and Beijing as they always dreamed of doing because they are healthy in their seventies instead of having dropped dead while bigger than the average bear.       
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« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2017, 09:55:07 PM »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example).


What matters is that someone 22 years old comes out of college better than he was at age 18 -- with a broader view of reality, more intellectual openness, better at communications, being able to address ethical issues, and having better ways to find happiness. Truth be told, brilliant 18-22-year-olds are bulls in the china shop in business and industry; 18-22-year-old dullards are useful even if not very productive. The University has been the playground for bright young men so that they don't shake up the wrong things when they are most tempted to do so since the Middle Ages. Getting a little older and more intellectually-refined, no matter what the field, they are less likely to shake things up, whether in theology or in politics.

Republicans are now heavily the party of the white dullard, someone with a cr@ppy job and whose behavior off the job doesn't matter so long as he doesn't shake things up  (as with crime or drugs). So what if he vegetates on  an easy chair in front the Idiot Screen watching vapid sitcoms, reality programming, witless movies, or televised sports while getting fat on snacks and either sugary or alcoholic drinks? Maybe he will die of a fatal heart attack at age 46 -- after his children are in the workforce -- so that his Social Security contributions are forfeit. Such implies more funds for the educated elite, even if being elite means that one is 'merely' a schoolteacher or clergy.   

Sure, educated people would consider such a way of life little more attractive than a prison term -- but educated people are the ones making the good money. They will retire with a pension, some savings, and Social Security payments... and go traveling to Berlin, Bora-Bora, Buenos Aires, and Beijing as they always dreamed of doing because they are healthy in their seventies instead of having dropped dead while bigger than the average bear.       

Ask republicans about different programs and see their response

If you asked what's your opinion of computer science,engineering,medical ,Accounting/Finance , management programs I bet the answer is overwhelmingly positive.


But if you asked about liberal arts , activist , law  programs the answer will be overwhelmingly negative.


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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2017, 10:39:22 PM »

     One could write a book to fully address this question. There are many ways in which they contribute positively and many ways in which they contribute negatively. I am not comfortable approaching it as a simple yes or no.

You're joking? You seriously think that the existence of American universities has an ambiguous effect on the US as a country?

That anyone would even consider that is one of the most moronic things I've heard. Jesus Christ.

     They have done a lot of good historically. They still do a lot of good today, but L.D. Smith is right; the system is deeply flawed. We shouldn't look at only the good and ignore the role they have played in the proliferation of debt among naive young adults or trends in admissions that have promoted social stratification, just to name a couple of problems associated with higher education today.


Right...so let's weight it up.

Cons: some people get debt, some gender studies majors can be annoying, some people waste a few years on degrees

Pros: you have doctors, engineers, scentists. Medicine, bridges, computers. Trained professionals who can do advanced labour.

I feel uncomfortable answering yes or no here, it's a real toughie.

     Colleges are useful for teaching certain advanced skillsets that lead to certain professions. I do know that there is a significant gap between Europe and the United States here (I recall hearing that 12% of college students study engineering over there compared to 4% here), so I can give you some benefit of the doubt on your mischaracterization of the situation.

     Many degree programs in the liberal arts suffer from low demand for the specific knowledge and do a poor job of imparting critical thinking skills (especially compared to yesteryear). Graduating college requires little effort outside of STEM fields and the quality of many graduates, even from prestigious universities, is frankly embarrassingly poor. Liberal arts programs are structured to funnel students into grad schools, where they are used as cheap labor for departments and offered little opportunity for advancement unless they are fortunate enough to enter top programs (even in the sciences, which carries its own baggage). For many jobs, universities are treated as a form of filtering wherein unnecessary degrees are valued for HR reasons and folks are corralled into seeking degrees they don't actually need. At top universities, social filtering both in admissions and in student life ensure that the best opportunities are reserved for upper-class youths, as middle-class strivers are led into a rat race that is stacked heavily against them.

     The spread of these problems that I just described affect far, far more students than do the opportunities offered by engineering and medicine. As I said, there is much good that colleges do. There are also many problems, and I could easily go on. Your dismissive tone only proves that you do not know what you are talking about here.
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« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2017, 10:42:27 PM »

I can't wait to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that my kid can go to a diploma mill and learn to hate me for being part of the white-male power structure.

Hundreds of thousands? You should be able to attend an in-state public school for the high 4-digits/low 5-digits annually, and you don't even have to be that smart to get at least a partial scholarship to those.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2017, 11:05:52 PM »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example).


What matters is that someone 22 years old comes out of college better than he was at age 18 -- with a broader view of reality, more intellectual openness, better at communications, being able to address ethical issues, and having better ways to find happiness. Truth be told, brilliant 18-22-year-olds are bulls in the china shop in business and industry; 18-22-year-old dullards are useful even if not very productive. The University has been the playground for bright young men so that they don't shake up the wrong things when they are most tempted to do so since the Middle Ages. Getting a little older and more intellectually-refined, no matter what the field, they are less likely to shake things up, whether in theology or in politics.

Republicans are now heavily the party of the white dullard, someone with a cr@ppy job and whose behavior off the job doesn't matter so long as he doesn't shake things up  (as with crime or drugs). So what if he vegetates on  an easy chair in front the Idiot Screen watching vapid sitcoms, reality programming, witless movies, or televised sports while getting fat on snacks and either sugary or alcoholic drinks? Maybe he will die of a fatal heart attack at age 46 -- after his children are in the workforce -- so that his Social Security contributions are forfeit. Such implies more funds for the educated elite, even if being elite means that one is 'merely' a schoolteacher or clergy.   

Sure, educated people would consider such a way of life little more attractive than a prison term -- but educated people are the ones making the good money. They will retire with a pension, some savings, and Social Security payments... and go traveling to Berlin, Bora-Bora, Buenos Aires, and Beijing as they always dreamed of doing because they are healthy in their seventies instead of having dropped dead while bigger than the average bear.       

Ask republicans about different programs and see their response

If you asked what's your opinion of computer science,engineering,medical ,Accounting/Finance , management programs I bet the answer is overwhelmingly positive.


But if you asked about liberal arts , activist , law  programs the answer will be overwhelmingly negative.

But the arts are liberal arts, and they are extremely useful in creating prosperity. Much of our prosperity is the creation of intellectual property -- cinema, television, literature, graphic art, and music. If you have adequate dishware, might you go to the theater instead of buying new dishware? $60 spent on tickets to live theater is just as much a contribution of $60 for some dry goods. Such is a personal choice, something easier for some than for others.   

Activism? Maybe if one is a brilliant kid from the Reservation one can do more good returning to the Reservation and changing the emphasis of local education to better fit the culture.  I am reminded of a story in which urban street gangs got a toehold on a depressed Reservation and introduced foreign ways. I do not mean Mozart and Monet.

It was discovered that the kids with the strongest ties to the traditional culture were least likely to join those Los Angeles-based street gangs. 

Law is important. Ask any political scientist how important 'rule of law' is. Where the rule of law prevails, people have a chance. Where the rule is not of law, all Hell is possible.

...We have probably come to the end of the era in which people can simply accumulate more stuff and get happier. Do we need to produce more stuff except as replacement or to meet population growth?

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« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2017, 11:10:06 PM »

I voted that colleges are good even though I think a lot of people who are currently going to college would probably be better off if they went to trade school and I also agree with some of the conservative critiques of the academy and the ideology behind some majors.

But I wonder, are conservatives making a mountain out of a molehill?  Most people are not majoring in gender studies and similar subjects. Majors like business, accounting and nursing are all significantly more popular. Even if students have to take "diversity" classes as requirements I assume most students just breeze through them and don't take them seriously.

You will always have campus radicals but I doubt they are even close to the majority on campus. Most students just want something to help them start a career after they graduate.
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« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2017, 11:45:43 PM »
« Edited: July 10, 2017, 11:54:13 PM by Old School Republican »

It totally depends on the program and degree  in my opinion

Many of the liberal arts degree for example I believe are bad for the country (gender,racial , religious studies for example).


What matters is that someone 22 years old comes out of college better than he was at age 18 -- with a broader view of reality, more intellectual openness, better at communications, being able to address ethical issues, and having better ways to find happiness. Truth be told, brilliant 18-22-year-olds are bulls in the china shop in business and industry; 18-22-year-old dullards are useful even if not very productive. The University has been the playground for bright young men so that they don't shake up the wrong things when they are most tempted to do so since the Middle Ages. Getting a little older and more intellectually-refined, no matter what the field, they are less likely to shake things up, whether in theology or in politics.

Republicans are now heavily the party of the white dullard, someone with a cr@ppy job and whose behavior off the job doesn't matter so long as he doesn't shake things up  (as with crime or drugs). So what if he vegetates on  an easy chair in front the Idiot Screen watching vapid sitcoms, reality programming, witless movies, or televised sports while getting fat on snacks and either sugary or alcoholic drinks? Maybe he will die of a fatal heart attack at age 46 -- after his children are in the workforce -- so that his Social Security contributions are forfeit. Such implies more funds for the educated elite, even if being elite means that one is 'merely' a schoolteacher or clergy.  

Sure, educated people would consider such a way of life little more attractive than a prison term -- but educated people are the ones making the good money. They will retire with a pension, some savings, and Social Security payments... and go traveling to Berlin, Bora-Bora, Buenos Aires, and Beijing as they always dreamed of doing because they are healthy in their seventies instead of having dropped dead while bigger than the average bear.      

Ask republicans about different programs and see their response

If you asked what's your opinion of computer science,engineering,medical ,Accounting/Finance , management programs I bet the answer is overwhelmingly positive.


But if you asked about liberal arts , activist , law  programs the answer will be overwhelmingly negative.

But the arts are liberal arts, and they are extremely useful in creating prosperity. Much of our prosperity is the creation of intellectual property -- cinema, television, literature, graphic art, and music. If you have adequate dishware, might you go to the theater instead of buying new dishware? $60 spent on tickets to live theater is just as much a contribution of $60 for some dry goods. Such is a personal choice, something easier for some than for others.  

Activism? Maybe if one is a brilliant kid from the Reservation one can do more good returning to the Reservation and changing the emphasis of local education to better fit the culture.  I am reminded of a story in which urban street gangs got a toehold on a depressed Reservation and introduced foreign ways. I do not mean Mozart and Monet.

It was discovered that the kids with the strongest ties to the traditional culture were least likely to join those Los Angeles-based street gangs.  

Law is important. Ask any political scientist how important 'rule of law' is. Where the rule of law prevails, people have a chance. Where the rule is not of law, all Hell is possible.

...We have probably come to the end of the era in which people can simply accumulate more stuff and get happier. Do we need to produce more stuff except as replacement or to meet population growth?



Yes that's true ,but how many people who go into acting actully become a Hollywood actor , and it's true for many of the liberal arts degrees(except English and history ).


And I just listed law not cause it isn't important but because conservatives tend to dislike lawyers
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