Hillary's Moment - did we get it all wrong?

[twenty42]

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Let me get this hypothetical timeline straight.

Hillary wins in 2008, she wins reelection in 2012, then Obama wins in 2016, and now he'd be sailing towards reelection in 2020.

You're sure giving Hillary a lot of gravitas for somebody who was 0-2 in real life elections.

[60+ GOP Seats After 2018 GUARANTEED]

For me, it's her desperation to become a feminist icon when she is anything but.

Just the plain facts of her accomplishments makes her an icon of feminism and women's rights, regardless of whether she won feminists over.

Maybe in 1996, but the second she stood by her cheating husband who was accused of sexual assault (and settled for it) and even attacked his accusers, she lost that chance. Not to mention she relied on her husband to get to where she was.

She tried DESPERATELY to be a feminist icon in this run, and it backfired tremendously because no one actually thinks of her as one. She wanted to be the 21st century Susan B. Anthony or the Barack Obama for the feminist movement but she's the complete opposite. During her concession speech she told women that "nothing has made more proud than to be your champion" LOL! So pretentious.

That's why I personally do not like her.

[60+ GOP Seats After 2018 GUARANTEED]

Clinton/Bayh 372 53%
McCain/Palin 166  46%

I don't think McCain would have chosen Palin if Clinton won the nomination. I actually think he'd choose Michael Steele instead.

[Mr. Smith]

Hillary was a much better candidate in 2008 (and would've been in 2004) than she was in 2016. If she has won, though, would she survived 2008?

She wins in 2008, and Romney defeats her in 2012.

Unlikely, Romney wasn't exactly Mr. Charisma or Mr. Out-of-Left-Field!

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Unlikely, if anything Obama probably would've lived long enough (in Congress) to become what Cory Booker is.

And given how he handled a Democratic majority for two years, and then how he dealt with Congress afterwards, he probably would've been even more vulnerable than Hillary in 2020.

[Rookie Yinzer]

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Let me get this hypothetical timeline straight.

Hillary wins in 2008, she wins reelection in 2012, then Obama wins in 2016, and now he'd be sailing towards reelection in 2020.

You're sure giving Hillary a lot of gravitas for somebody who was 0-2 in real life elections.

No. Romney would have won in 2012. Hillary would have never won re-election whether she won in 08 or 16. Too polarizing to the right and doesn't enthuse the left.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Let me get this hypothetical timeline straight.

Hillary wins in 2008, she wins reelection in 2012, then Obama wins in 2016, and now he'd be sailing towards reelection in 2020.

You're sure giving Hillary a lot of gravitas for somebody who was 0-2 in real life elections.

No. Romney would have won in 2012. Hillary would have never won re-election whether she won in 08 or 16. Too polarizing to the right and doesn't enthuse the left.

I think she would have narrowly defeated Romney in the EC and PV in 2012. Like, say, 274-264 or 277-261, and 50.4%-49.6% or something similar.
Romney still makes his 47% gaffe imo, and that hurts him regardless of who the Dem nominee is.

[Technocracy Timmy]

The GOP wouldn't have ran the Romney-bot to counter the Hillary-bot. Too similar for the base of the Party to accept.


Chris Christie would've been the nominee. Loud, brash, and tells it like it is! Hillary would've been overwhelmed by the NJ Governor. Worst case scenario he would just eat her like he ate Jimmy Hoffa in 75'.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hillary vs Romney 2012 map

Romney/Ryan 279 49.8%
Clinton/Bayh  259 48.5%

While Hillary does very well in the Upper South and Appalachia in 2008, she is not able to hold on to those states in 2012 thus she loses.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hillary was a much better candidate in 2008 (and would've been in 2004) than she was in 2016. If she has won, though, would she survived 2008?

She wins in 2008, and Romney defeats her in 2012.

Unlikely, Romney wasn't exactly Mr. Charisma or Mr. Out-of-Left-Field!

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Unlikely, if anything Obama probably would've lived long enough (in Congress) to become what Cory Booker is.

And given how he handled a Democratic majority for two years, and then how he dealt with Congress afterwards, he probably would've been even more vulnerable than Hillary in 2020.

Nah Hillary would have lost by 10-12 points in 2020, while Obama would have only lost by 6-7 .

Reasons why is:

1. The GOP base hates Hillary more then Obama
2. Obama is a much better campaigner then Hillary
3. He wouldnt start out his administration in such a week position as Hillary would have

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

She also supposedly changed her electoral strategy going into 2016 as a result of Trump. She was gonna run a more populist left campaign but with Trump she turned her narrative into Trump being fundamentally unfit for the office of the Presidency.

I'm trying to imagine a populist Hillary Clinton campaign, it's hard.

[Mr. Smith]

She also supposedly changed her electoral strategy going into 2016 as a result of Trump. She was gonna run a more populist left campaign but with Trump she turned her narrative into Trump being fundamentally unfit for the office of the Presidency.

I'm trying to imagine a populist Hillary Clinton campaign, it's hard.

2008 Primary says hi.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Hillary was certainly the strongest campaigner she's ever been between the couple days before New Hampshire 2008 and her concession speech that June. By far.

I also think it's rather compelling to suggest that she would have made better use of the congressional majorities than Obama did in the first two years of that term. On the flipside, many Obama primary voters probably would have acted just as rotten as Sanders voters did had she actually won the nomination, so that would have been quite challenging.

But yes, I'll say it over and over: Hillary's time was 2009-2017. Obama would have fared well as a successor in this environment, and in fact would have been a better president with more years under his belt.

This her best time was 2008.

Imagine a grizzled and seasoned two term VP Obama running in 2016 to continue Hillary's legacy? Obama would have been very tough to beat in those circumstances.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Hillary was certainly the strongest campaigner she's ever been between the couple days before New Hampshire 2008 and her concession speech that June. By far.

I also think it's rather compelling to suggest that she would have made better use of the congressional majorities than Obama did in the first two years of that term. On the flipside, many Obama primary voters probably would have acted just as rotten as Sanders voters did had she actually won the nomination, so that would have been quite challenging.

But yes, I'll say it over and over: Hillary's time was 2009-2017. Obama would have fared well as a successor in this environment, and in fact would have been a better president with more years under his belt.

This her best time was 2008.

Imagine a grizzled and seasoned two term VP Obama running in 2016 to continue Hillary's legacy? Obama would have been very tough to beat in those circumstances.

Obama would have lost his popularity among the liberal base if he was her vp .

[dw93]

If Clinton were to win in 2008, she'd be more vulnerable than he was in 2012 (I do however think she would've at least been equally as accomplished as Obama in OTL), because she's less inspiring and is more controversial than he is. With that said, unless Romney against Hillary is more inspiring than the Romney that ran against Obama, she beats him by a narrower margin than Obama did. A more experienced Senator Obama runs in 2016 and defeats VP Warner or Bayh in the primary and wins the General Election.

[super6646]

She had a much better chance in 2008. Bush's approval in 2004 was around 50%, so I think he would be able to pull it out. But against Mccain, it would be brutal. She would be competitive in the south, but I think her wins are limited to Arkansas, Missouri, West Virginia, and Virginia. Minority turnout would be too low for her to get North Carolina or Indiana, and Tennessee and Kentucky moved to the right a bit too much for her to get them, but they are still battlegrounds. Montana is won by the slimmest of margins for Mccain, while Louisiana would also be a slim Mccain win. Here is my battleground map:

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Hillary was certainly the strongest campaigner she's ever been between the couple days before New Hampshire 2008 and her concession speech that June. By far.

I also think it's rather compelling to suggest that she would have made better use of the congressional majorities than Obama did in the first two years of that term. On the flipside, many Obama primary voters probably would have acted just as rotten as Sanders voters did had she actually won the nomination, so that would have been quite challenging.

But yes, I'll say it over and over: Hillary's time was 2009-2017. Obama would have fared well as a successor in this environment, and in fact would have been a better president with more years under his belt.

This her best time was 2008.

Imagine a grizzled and seasoned two term VP Obama running in 2016 to continue Hillary's legacy? Obama would have been very tough to beat in those circumstances.

Obama would have lost his popularity among the liberal base if he was her vp .

Biden hasn't lost popularity among the D base for being Obama's VP. Obama would be untainted and charismatic enough to move left in 2016 and appear genuine. After all, what hurt Hillary with the base wasn't what she did in the Obama administration so much, but her record in the neoliberal 90s.

Whether Clinton would have won re-election in 2012 is the more interesting question, as Obama that year ran the best campaign in Presidential history. But on the other hand, perhaps Clinton wouldn't have suffered quite as big a landslide against her in the 2010 midterms. Who knows.

[JoshPA]

I've wondered this for a while--did Hillary get it wrong--was her moment really in 2004? Was that her time to emerge?

2008 was her moment 2016 was also going to be a republican year.