Hillary's Moment - did we get it all wrong?

[Mr. Smith]

We did. Although methinks 2008 was the time. 2004 was like when Bob Dole tried running in 1980, 2008 was like Dole's 88.

In short 2004 was too early, but there was still some charisma to work with.

2008 was the sweet spot, but she underestimated Obama badly...but paradoxically did a much better job at things than she did at ANY point of 2016.

[Mr. Smith]

She didn't expect somebody to run from her left and win in 2008 (ironically enough a man who had a slightly more conservative record than her). Obama really dragged her on the Iraq war and to a lesser extent with trade deals like NAFTA. I don't think she expected another even more leftist insurgency last year to be so damaging as well. 2008 still makes 2016 look tame though. People forget just how nasty Obama and Clinton were with one another compared to Sanders.

She also supposedly changed her electoral strategy going into 2016 as a result of Trump. She was gonna run a more populist left campaign but with Trump she turned her narrative into Trump being fundamentally unfit for the office of the Presidency.

Fundamentally unfit because he said a bunch of nasty stuff, instead of idk Trump University or job stiffing at that.

[Mr. Smith]

Hillary was a much better candidate in 2008 (and would've been in 2004) than she was in 2016. If she has won, though, would she survived 2008?

She wins in 2008, and Romney defeats her in 2012.

Unlikely, Romney wasn't exactly Mr. Charisma or Mr. Out-of-Left-Field!

I wish she had won the primaries because Obama would be president now and we'd still have 7.5 years to look towards.

Unlikely, if anything Obama probably would've lived long enough (in Congress) to become what Cory Booker is.

And given how he handled a Democratic majority for two years, and then how he dealt with Congress afterwards, he probably would've been even more vulnerable than Hillary in 2020.

[Mr. Smith]

She also supposedly changed her electoral strategy going into 2016 as a result of Trump. She was gonna run a more populist left campaign but with Trump she turned her narrative into Trump being fundamentally unfit for the office of the Presidency.

I'm trying to imagine a populist Hillary Clinton campaign, it's hard.

2008 Primary says hi.