Are the Russians being scapegoated?

[WritOfCertiorari]

There are still plenty of people on YouTube, including Mark Dice, who think that the whole Russia thing is being stirred up. Honestly, the idea of the Russians influencing US elections is almost too perfect an excuse. We need to be really careful before believing everything the media tells us.

However, these Donald Jr. emails seem to contradict a lot of right wing arguments being made about a lack of proof. There was literally a reference to the Russians having a program to elect Trump.

As a reminder, the Germans had this same type of thing going on in the 1930s. They believed that the Bolsheviks were about to take over Europe. Ironically, it was the aggression of the Nazis in WW2 that provided an opening for Russia to sweep into half of Europe. I hope the media isn't making a similar mistake.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Your first sentence literally gave me cancer

[ajc0918]

To answer the thread title.... no. Everything else you wrote, also no.

[Devout Centrist]

Are you f**king kidding me? None of this animosity is being directed at individual Russians.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Yes and no. Media claims re:Russiagate are often hyped well beyond what the evidence they are reporting supports. At the same time, there is plenty of quality evidence going far back into last year for some degree of Russian involvement. Putin's government had means, motive, and opportunity. And the Trump campaign has made themselves look guiltier by the day.

We know Trump and his campaign wanted the Russians to provide dirt on Hillary.

We know dirt was obtained and released to Trump's benefit.

We know that a wide variety of cyber security experts think Russia is connected to the acquisition and release of said dirt.

 We know he and his companies and campaign staff have a long history of connections to Russia.

We know that Trump and his campaign established a clear pattern of lying about thier contacts with Russia.

While I'm not certain exactly what happened, I do think Trumpco looks very guilty, and that scapegoated is not the right word.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Yes and no. Media claims re:Russiagate are often hyped well beyond what the evidence they are reporting supports. At the same time, there is plenty of quality evidence going far back into last year for some degree of Russian involvement. Putin's government had means, motive, and opportunity. And the Trump campaign has made themselves look guiltier by the day.

We know Trump and his campaign wanted the Russians to provide dirt on Hillary.

We know dirt was obtained and released to Trump's benefit.

We know that a wide variety of cyber security experts think Russia is connected to the acquisition and release of said dirt.

 We know he and his companies and campaign staff have a long history of connections to Russia.

We know that Trump and his campaign established a clear pattern of lying about thier contacts with Russia.

While I'm not certain exactly what happened, I do think Trumpco looks very guilty, and that scapegoated is not the right word.

I agree with all of this, and would add that all the evidence is not public at this point.  Statements from people such as McCain, Schiff, and various IC sources indicate that there is more to come.

[Beet]

I would add that the Democratic Party has been the party that has traditionally sought better relations with Russia. During the Truman administration and all the way up to the end of the nuclear freeze movement, Republicans took a harder line. Obama himself campaigned on a reset to improve relations with Russia, and Hillary herself oversaw the negotiation of New START in 2010. When Mitt Romney said Russia was an adversary, Obama shot back, stating that the Cold War is over. Even now, even Trump himself, continues to accuse Obama of "doing nothing" over Russian hacking, while other Republicans try to claim the Russians were in cahoots with John Podesta. And while Russian media typically takes conservative stances on Western cultural debates now, as recently as 2014 you had outlets like RT reporting, for instance, that GamerGate was about sexism in video game culture. After all, Putin, an ex-KGB agent, is a center-leftist in the Russian political spectrum, whereas his main opponent, Navalny, is a center-rightist; and Ukrainian nationalists are rightists. Putin also continues to support leftists abroad such as Bashar Assad and Kim Jong Un. The Democratic Party will always continue to advocate better relations with Russia in the long run, especially if Putin remains in charge. If you had come to the DNC before all of this came out and said, let's pick a country to scapegoat, the first choice would probably have been Saudi Arabia, a country long hated by the Democrats for their conservatism and connection to oil interests.

So what changed? The far right has attached itself to Russia because they find ethnic comity in a country of mostly white ethnicity (even though Russians have some Asiatic DNA, that seems to be overlooked), and Putin realized he could exploit this. I don't think Putin really cares about internal western debates over left or right, he just wants to weaken the West as much as possible, as is natural for any leader in his position.

[pbrower2a]

The Russians (government or Mafia) are using this President and they will callously sacrifice him if he no longer serves their interests.

I think that the Trump mess is beginning to trouble Putin, not so much for immorality as for its consequences. It is only a matter of time before  the idea "at least we need an intelligent and principled counterpart like Obama" sinks in.  

[Mr. Reactionary]

At least compared to the Chinese in 1996. But then again 1996 wasn't as close an election, so its possible that if that election had been close, the GOP would have misused the word treason just as much as the Dems are now.