DSA's impact in 2020

[NeederNodder]

How much of an impact will the DSA(Democratic Socialists of America) have in 2020? How should the democrats gain the support of the growing movement?

[TheSaint250]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

[NeederNodder]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

How? The chapters are growing across the country and they have larger meetings than democrats who have town halls.

[TheSaint250]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

How? The chapters are growing across the country and they have larger meetings than democrats who have town halls.

Many Americans still would vote against someone affiliated with a socialist movement like the DSA.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Minimal, we're focusing on local politics where we can make the most impact

[NeederNodder]

Minimal, we're focusing on local politics where we can make the most impact

I understand that, but at the rate we're seeing DSA grow, it'll be a national movement in 2020.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Minimal, we're focusing on local politics where we can make the most impact

Pretty much this, though I suppose that it is conceivable that DSA becomes a Momentum-tier organization if they play their cards perfectly.

Minimal, we're focusing on local politics where we can make the most impact

I understand that, but at the rate we're seeing DSA grow, it'll be a national movement in 2020.

Gorsh, these would be pretty great.

I'm a natural born pessimist, though.

Momentum is a weird example, since pressure groups within Labour seem to be A) intertwined a lot more philosophically with the party infrastructure than I think DSA is really comfortable with (even the most 'work within the Dems' types, of which I am one) B ) similarly, share top personnel and infrastructure. I would love if the Dems hopped on board, but I don't think it's terribly likely in the next four years.

[NeederNodder]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

How? The chapters are growing across the country and they have larger meetings than democrats who have town halls.

Many Americans still would vote against someone affiliated with a socialist movement like the DSA.

A socialist movement like PSL, of course. A Democratic Socialist movement like DSA, is debatable.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

How? The chapters are growing across the country and they have larger meetings than democrats who have town halls.

Many Americans still would vote against someone affiliated with a socialist movement like the DSA.

A socialist movement like PSL, of course. A Democratic Socialist movement like DSA, is debatable.

A lot of people don't care about the word 'socialist' anymore, and DSA wouldn't be knocking doors in areas where people did.

[MAINEiac4434]

Minimal, we're focusing on local politics where we can make the most impact

This is perfect. Get Socialists elected locally. Eventually they'll become national.

I agree that it won't be a national movement in 2020. By 2028, though, definitely.

[Famous Mortimer]

It all depends on the how the National Convention goes.

It's looking very likely the DSA will break with the Democratic Party entirely, in which case they will become yet another irrelevant socialist third party like PSL, SPUSA, etc.

If the Jacobin/Chapo/people who actually want to influence policy-wing somehow end up winning out, well, they will still be mostly irrelevant but not as much.

[TheSaint250]

Unfortunately nothing. I wish though. It would taint the Democrat

How? The chapters are growing across the country and they have larger meetings than democrats who have town halls.

Many Americans still would vote against someone affiliated with a socialist movement like the DSA.

A socialist movement like PSL, of course. A Democratic Socialist movement like DSA, is debatable.

Maybe. It all depends on campaigning I guess

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

It all depends on the how the National Convention goes.

It's looking very likely the DSA will break with the Democratic Party entirely, in which case they will become yet another irrelevant socialist third party like PSL, SPUSA, etc.

If the Jacobin/Chapo/people who actually want to influence policy-wing somehow end up winning out, well, they will still be mostly irrelevant but not as much.

What are you talking about? I admittedly haven't been following the pre-convention squabbles too as well as I should have, but I'm pretty sure that both the Momentum & Praxis slates (the only two slates with a realistic chance of winning next month) fall into the second category.

That was my impression as well. A lot of the 'disengagement with electoral politics' stuff falls right before pretty detailed electoral plans on the platforms.

Also yeah, those are by far the two frontrunners from my very cursory read on Chicago DSA.

[Famous Mortimer]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

[GoTfan]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Again, what I've heard is flexibility. I don't think anyone is imagining a 2020 DSA candidate. However, if in an alliance through local groups you can nix your local Democratic alderman, that's another story.

The mantra is flexible and tactical engagement.

[Famous Mortimer]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

Tell me, have you ever been to a meeting?

[Famous Mortimer]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

Tell me, have you ever been to a meeting?

Yes. More than you most likely. I actually went to events in 2016. I was going to Jacobin and Verso events even before then.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

Tell me, have you ever been to a meeting?

Yes. More than you most likely. I actually went to events in 2016. I was going to Jacobin and Verso events even before then.

Well, Chicago is a lot more practical than whatever chapter you're dealing with is all I have to say.

[Famous Mortimer]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

Tell me, have you ever been to a meeting?

Yes. More than you most likely. I actually went to events in 2016. I was going to Jacobin and Verso events even before then.

Well, Chicago is a lot more practical than whatever chapter you're dealing with is all I have to say.

That gives me hope. The current not-really-elected leadership of the party are pretty smart and politically oriented. I fear they will be overwhelmed by the new members though, most of whom are 19 year olds who just read the wikipedia article on Communism for the first time.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Wanting to form a third party independent of the Democrats might as well be campaigning against electoral politics in general.

Bernie came far closer to being president than any third party socialist candidate ever.

Third parties are a dead end, adding ANOTHER third party to the mix is not going to change that.

Which is why the US needs to implement ranked choice voting to give thrid parties a chance.

I agree completely however no one in the DSA ever ever talks about IRV or PR. At least half of them talk about communist revolution and abolishing privately owned companies though. This tells you how serious they are.

Tell me, have you ever been to a meeting?

Yes. More than you most likely. I actually went to events in 2016. I was going to Jacobin and Verso events even before then.

Well, Chicago is a lot more practical than whatever chapter you're dealing with is all I have to say.

That gives me hope. The current not-really-elected leadership of the party are pretty smart and politically oriented. I fear they will be overwhelmed by the new members though, most of whom are 19 year olds who just read the wikipedia article on Communism for the first time.

Huh, that's actually the complete opposite of my experience. Most of the leadership/people who actually do things here are involved with labor in some capacity or another, and the people who aren't generally have a head on their shoulders. My girlfriend and I are probably the youngest people in the chapter, and we're basically at the end of college age.

As for new members being new... well, hopefully the leadership can guide them. It will be interesting to see the outcome of the national convention (I'm actually going to be out of town so it'll be vicarious) and whether we actually get a dues regime implemented. I think that and not completely disengaging with electoral politics are the two tests that DSA needs to pass.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the two slates running for NPC will be able to do what's necessary.

[Crumpets]

The DSA supporters are either 1) People who would never vote Democrat to begin with or 2) People who might vote third party locally but will always vote Democratic at the national level to fend off Republicans. Is there really any sizeable group of people who were formerly happy Democrats but will now vote for the Whosthat/Somedude ticket the DSA may or may not nominate for president in 2020?

[Famous Mortimer]

The DSA supporters are either 1) People who would never vote Democrat to begin with or 2) People who might vote third party locally but will always vote Democratic at the national level to fend off Republicans. Is there really any sizeable group of people who were formerly happy Democrats but will now vote for the Whosthat/Somedude ticket the DSA may or may not nominate for president in 2020?

Historically the DSA was Democratic Party activists who wanted to move the party to the left. The people in this faction are all dead or dying though.

Last year a new vanguard of people took over based around Jacobin Magazine and Verso Books. They all hate the Democrats for not being left enough but still end up voting for them as the lesser of two evils. They make up the Praxis slate, I'm guessing. They advocate an "inside/outside" strategy. Which means organizing both inside and outside the Democratic Party. Really, they just want to work inside the Democratic Party but they can't say that because it would open them up to attacks of being too moderate. So "inside/outside" is their compromise position.

A lot of new members have joined the party since then though, mostly, like I said, kids who just googled "socialism" and the DSA came up on the first page. These are all idiot college kids who LARP as Bolsheviks. They refuse to work within the Democratic Party. They want the DSA to become its own party. They make up the Momentum slate. If I had to guess, they will probably win.

It should be noted though, all the various factions, whenever they discuss issues, do it in Marxist  /Soviet/academia speak so it's actually hard to tell what they stand for. You could read the Momentum platform and make the case that they are okay with working with the Democrats and you could read the Praxis platform (if it's come out yet) and make the case that they are for running third party. Everyone is intentionally vague and you have to read between the lines.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

The DSA supporters are either 1) People who would never vote Democrat to begin with or 2) People who might vote third party locally but will always vote Democratic at the national level to fend off Republicans. Is there really any sizeable group of people who were formerly happy Democrats but will now vote for the Whosthat/Somedude ticket the DSA may or may not nominate for president in 2020?

Historically the DSA was Democratic Party activists who wanted to move the party to the left. The people in this faction are all dead or dying though.

Last year a new vanguard of people took over based around Jacobin Magazine and Verso Books. They all hate the Democrats for not being left enough but still end up voting for them as the lesser of two evils. They make up the Praxis slate, I'm guessing. They advocate an "inside/outside" strategy. Which means organizing both inside and outside the Democratic Party. Really, they just want to work inside the Democratic Party but they can't say that because it would open them up to attacks of being too moderate. So "inside/outside" is their compromise position.

A lot of new members have joined the party since then though, mostly, like I said, kids who just googled "socialism" and the DSA came up on the first page. These are all idiot college kids who LARP as Bolsheviks. They refuse to work within the Democratic Party. They want the DSA to become its own party. They make up the Momentum slate. If I had to guess, they will probably win.

It should be noted though, all the various factions, whenever they discuss issues, do it in Marxist  /Soviet/academia speak so it's actually hard to tell what they stand for. You could read the Momentum platform and make the case that they are okay with working with the Democrats and you could read the Praxis platform (if it's come out yet) and make the case that they are for running third party. Everyone is intentionally vague and you have to read between the lines.

Again, I'm just not sure where you're getting that. Here's Momentum's bit on electoral politics, quoted at length:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Bold is mine

TL;DR - "you might want a national third party, but it ain't gonna happen. We shouldn't focus exclusively on elections, but instead make sure to show up for labor and organize with them."


Praxis, meanwhile, doesn't mention electoral politics at all, but seems interested in letting regions/chapters chart their own course on that. Which again, is gonna result in tactical engagement with the Dems when it's necessary/important, but looking for opportunities to organize outside the party where it's possible (hyper local races, &c &c).