Should the Democratic Party distance itself from Hillary Clinton?

[maga2020]

Embrace her, democrats!

[RINO Tom]

The party didn't distance itself from Gore in 2000.

It was Nader's fault that Gore lost, so he got a Pass.

Obviously the democratic party should divorce itself completely from Hillary Clinton. She is the most hated nominee of either major party, aside from Trump himself, in modern history.

If it's Nader's fault Gore lost, it's Stein's fault Hillary lost. Logical consistency and all that.

Obviously I put the blame on voters and not on candidates, but if you're going to blame Nader rather than the "liberal" nimrods who failed to vote Gore, you have to do the same for Stein.

Look who you're quoting.

[JoeyOCanada]

Most certainly, the Clintons kind of obliterated the Democratic brand in the 2016 campaign. As much as I love Bill, both he and Hillary should stay far far away from anything Democratic. Focus on Obama and move forward.

[dw93]

Yes. They served their role just fine in the 90's when the Democrats had to move to the center to win.

Did they? Judging by the 1994 results, Bill's lack of legislative accomplishment, and the fact that they made George W. Bush seem like a fresh alternative, I wouldn't say they were the best choice for Democrats in the 1990s. In fact, their sleaze was disastrous for Democrats during that whole period and made rebuilding impossible until they were put on the shelf for a while. For example, in 1996 all the polls were showing Democrats were easily going to retake the House - then the Chinese fundraising scandal came out.

Bill was still less damaging for the Democratic party down ticket than Obama was.

[Higgins]

Nixon at one point gave everything the Democrats could've wanted in his healthcare proposal without losing his base and the Democrats still rejected it.

I know you like to talk about parallels between political alignments, and this brings me to one that you'll definitely find interesting: Obama gave the Republicans everything they could've wanted in his healthcare proposal and the Republicans still rejected it.

Two different situations. Nixon gave his healthcare proposal which had everything in his State of the Union for 1974. By that time, he had very very little political capitol left and no Democrats willing to work on him with anything besides helping him out the door.

Ted Kennedy would go on to say his biggest mistake in his political life was rejecting Nixon's healthcare proposal. The situation may have been slightly different than Obama, but the hostility Democrats had towards Nixon at the time caused many to look back with regret at the opportunities they missed.

The bolded seems to be fading from history in favor of the "Southern Democrats were right-wingers and more conservative than a lot of Republicans" and "Nixon was actually pretty liberal muh EPA" narratives.  The fact is, Democrats hated Nixon much more than they hated Reagan (21st Century attitudes aside), and many Southern Democrats led the charge for his impeachment.

Sam Ervin

[GoTfan]

The party didn't distance itself from Gore in 2000.

It was Nader's fault that Gore lost, so he got a Pass.

Obviously the democratic party should divorce itself completely from Hillary Clinton. She is the most hated nominee of either major party, aside from Trump himself, in modern history.

If it's Nader's fault Gore lost, it's Stein's fault Hillary lost. Logical consistency and all that.

Obviously I put the blame on voters and not on candidates, but if you're going to blame Nader rather than the "liberal" nimrods who failed to vote Gore, you have to do the same for Stein.

Gore and Hillary were not entitled to those votes. That's part of the stupid  "vote Democrat because we're less bad than the Republicans" crap they've been pushing for years.

[7,052,770]

The party didn't distance itself from Gore in 2000.

It was Nader's fault that Gore lost, so he got a Pass.

Obviously the democratic party should divorce itself completely from Hillary Clinton. She is the most hated nominee of either major party, aside from Trump himself, in modern history.

If it's Nader's fault Gore lost, it's Stein's fault Hillary lost. Logical consistency and all that.

Obviously I put the blame on voters and not on candidates, but if you're going to blame Nader rather than the "liberal" nimrods who failed to vote Gore, you have to do the same for Stein.

Gore and Hillary were not entitled to those votes. That's part of the stupid  "vote Democrat because we're less bad than the Republicans" crap they've been pushing for years.

Believe what you want, but the lunatics who voted Nader instead of Gore accomplished nothing. The party didn't suddenly jerk left to accommodate them. I think we can all (except jfern) agree that those people screwed up in both 2000 and 2016, considering the particularly awful (even for Republican) presidents their "principled stand" or whatever crap they've deluded themselves with gave us.

[darklordoftech]

LBJ and Nixon were never again invited to their party's conventions after they left office

To be fair, LBJ didn't live very long after he left office.

[GoTfan]

The party didn't distance itself from Gore in 2000.

It was Nader's fault that Gore lost, so he got a Pass.

Obviously the democratic party should divorce itself completely from Hillary Clinton. She is the most hated nominee of either major party, aside from Trump himself, in modern history.

If it's Nader's fault Gore lost, it's Stein's fault Hillary lost. Logical consistency and all that.

Obviously I put the blame on voters and not on candidates, but if you're going to blame Nader rather than the "liberal" nimrods who failed to vote Gore, you have to do the same for Stein.

Gore and Hillary were not entitled to those votes. That's part of the stupid  "vote Democrat because we're less bad than the Republicans" crap they've been pushing for years.

Believe what you want, but the lunatics who voted Nader instead of Gore accomplished nothing. The party didn't suddenly jerk left to accommodate them. I think we can all (except jfern) agree that those people screwed up in both 2000 and 2016, considering the particularly awful (even for Republican) presidents their "principled stand" or whatever crap they've deluded themselves with gave us.

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

[7,052,770]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

[Higgins]

LBJ and Nixon were never again invited to their party's conventions after they left office

To be fair, LBJ didn't live very long after he left office.

the 1972 convention pretended he didn't exist. They even removed his photograph from their portraits of Democratic Presidents of the past as if he didn't happen. That was within his lifetime.

[7,052,770]

The party didn't distance itself from Gore in 2000.

It was Nader's fault that Gore lost, so he got a Pass.

Obviously the democratic party should divorce itself completely from Hillary Clinton. She is the most hated nominee of either major party, aside from Trump himself, in modern history.

It's Gore's fault that Nader got votes.

It's Nader voters' fault that Nader got votes. Gore didn't go into the ballot box and vote on their behalf.

[Higgins]

Anyone other than Clinton, and O'Malley, could've beaten Donald Trump. The fact that the election was as close as it is a testament to how poor a candidate she was, and how embarrassing she is to the party. She let the American people down. Persona non grata she should be.

[7,052,770]

Anyone other than Clinton, and O'Malley, could've beaten Donald Trump. The fact that the election was as close as it is a testament to how poor a candidate she was, and how embarrassing she is to the party. She let the American people down. Persona non grata she should be.

The voters let America down, not Hillary.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Anyone other than Clinton, and O'Malley, could've beaten Donald Trump. The fact that the election was as close as it is a testament to how poor a candidate she was, and how embarrassing she is to the party. She let the American people down. Persona non grata she should be.

The voters let America down, not Hillary.

Your name is literally how many more Americans voted for Clinton over Trump.

[TheLeftwardTide]

Absolutely. Both her brand and her style of politics are toxic.

[7,052,770]

Anyone other than Clinton, and O'Malley, could've beaten Donald Trump. The fact that the election was as close as it is a testament to how poor a candidate she was, and how embarrassing she is to the party. She let the American people down. Persona non grata she should be.

The voters let America down, not Hillary.

Your name is literally how many more Americans voted for Clinton over Trump.

If you're making the point that the American voters did their job, and the archaic system was what actually f'ed up, touche.

[GoTfan]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

Selfish?! Jesus, that's entitled. Newsflash, if Hillary doesn't get votes, then she didn't earn them. This is the problem with the Democrats; anyone who's not a Third Wayer is immediately kicked out of the party, and then gets blamed when Democrats lose.

You don't want the left wing vote and go after the moderate vote? Fine. Just don't blame the left when you lose.

[7,052,770]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

Selfish?! Jesus, that's entitled. Newsflash, if Hillary doesn't get votes, then she didn't earn them. This is the problem with the Democrats; anyone who's not a Third Wayer is immediately kicked out of the party, and then gets blamed when Democrats lose.

You don't want the left wing vote and go after the moderate vote? Fine. Just don't blame the left when you lose.

I don't think that I could have possibly been any clearer that everyone, regardless of political lean, who didn't vote for Hillary is equally to blame for her loss. I do think that any Democrat who didn't vote for her, whether that reason is because "she's too liberal!" or "she's too conservative!" or "she stole the primary from Bernie!" is a little full of themselves.

Your theory about politicians "earning" votes is very noble, but what about all the nimrods who wanted Hillary to win, but were still triggered by Bernie's loss, and assuming that Hillary had it in the bag anyway, decided to write in Bernie? Remember, they were liberal and wanted Hillary to win, but rather than take responsibility and do their part, they selfishly decided to let everyone else take care of that and mooch off the result. Are you seriously going to say that Bernie, a man who was not a candidate and explicitly told his supporters that they did not really believe in the Revolution unless they voted for Hillary, "earned" their votes?

[wxtransit]

If they want to be electable, yes.

Do I want them to? Nah.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

Selfish?! Jesus, that's entitled. Newsflash, if Hillary doesn't get votes, then she didn't earn them. This is the problem with the Democrats; anyone who's not a Third Wayer is immediately kicked out of the party, and then gets blamed when Democrats lose.

You don't want the left wing vote and go after the moderate vote? Fine. Just don't blame the left when you lose.

Sorry, refusing to vote to stop someone like trump because of #principles is selfish.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

Selfish?! Jesus, that's entitled. Newsflash, if Hillary doesn't get votes, then she didn't earn them. This is the problem with the Democrats; anyone who's not a Third Wayer is immediately kicked out of the party, and then gets blamed when Democrats lose.

You don't want the left wing vote and go after the moderate vote? Fine. Just don't blame the left when you lose.

Sorry, refusing to vote to stop someone like trump because of #principles is selfish.

Hear hear! You are either with us or you are with the terrorists!

[7,052,770]

I'm sorry, but no candidate is entitled to votes. Gore and Hillary didn't earn them while Nader and Stein did, simple as that.

And this selfish attitude is why the country moved farther away from a Green voter's ideal vision of America, and after 8 years of Obama repairing that, we're again moving away from the typical Green** voter's opinion of America again.


** - Actually, Stein is a pro-Russia plant who told swing state voters they should pick Trump over Hillary, so I could be wrong about that one.

Selfish?! Jesus, that's entitled. Newsflash, if Hillary doesn't get votes, then she didn't earn them. This is the problem with the Democrats; anyone who's not a Third Wayer is immediately kicked out of the party, and then gets blamed when Democrats lose.

You don't want the left wing vote and go after the moderate vote? Fine. Just don't blame the left when you lose.

Sorry, refusing to vote to stop someone like trump because of #principles is selfish.

Hear hear! You are either with us or you are with the terrorists!

Obviously that's not what we are saying. The point is that if you want a candidate to win, you should vote for him/her. If you "take a stand" or whatever because you think everyone else will take care of it for you, you mooched off everyone else -- those people may have wanted to "take a stand" too but knew it that was too important not to!

There can be absolutely no doubt that if everyone who wanted Hillary to win actually voted for her, she would have won the Obama Great Lakes states and the election. All we can do now is hope that it was a really hard lesson for thousands of voters and that they won't do it again in 2020.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Given the nature of the EC there's no reason to persuade some people to NOT vote Third Party if you live in a deep blue or deep red state.

I certainly wasn't interested in convincing anybody in my social circle to not vote Third Party because this is California and not Florida.