North Korea Mega Thread

[Kamala]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

Does anyone in China believe Trump is actually calling the shots in his administration? Or that he's capable of following through on anything?

I'll also point out that for all Trump's whining that diplomacy doesn't work, he has never actually engaged in any.

Diplomacy is rubbish, only an idiot does not see it after the failure of Obama and Bill

The glorious success of W. Bush's warmongering is evident for all to see!

[pikachu]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

Does anyone in China believe Trump is actually calling the shots in his administration? Or that he's capable of following through on anything?

I'll also point out that for all Trump's whining that diplomacy doesn't work, he has never actually engaged in any.

If the goal is to denuclearize North Korea, Trump's probably right that diplomacy won't work - there's really way it's in the self-interest of the North Korean regime to give up their nuclear weapons and tbh it's not like they negotiate in good faith anyway. The more pertinent question now is whether we're willing to live with the status quo of North Korea having nuclear weapons which can hit the US. Not that I think Trump has handled this well and I don't have faith in him doing the right thing, but it's not his fault that we're at a point where we're choosing between a very bad situation and an absolutely awful one.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

Does anyone in China believe Trump is actually calling the shots in his administration? Or that he's capable of following through on anything?

I'll also point out that for all Trump's whining that diplomacy doesn't work, he has never actually engaged in any.

If the goal is to denuclearize North Korea, Trump's probably right that diplomacy won't work - there's really way it's in the self-interest of the North Korean regime to give up their nuclear weapons and tbh it's not like they negotiate in good faith anyway. The more pertinent question now is whether we're willing to live with the status quo of North Korea having nuclear weapons which can hit the US. Not that I think Trump has handled this well and I don't have faith in him doing the right thing, but it's not his fault that we're at a point where we're choosing between a very bad situation and an absolutely awful one.

Kim doesn't want to end up like Saddam Hussein. They will NEVER give up their nukes. Also, we already live under the Chinese, Russian, and Pakistani nuclear threats. We should just isolate that regime, cut all trade, and leave them to rot alone. America will be fine.

[seb_pard]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

List of countries that trade with North Korea

China
India
Philippines
Taiwan
France
Mozambique
Russia
Brazil
Burkina Faso
Mexico
Germany
Turkey
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Chile

[GoTfan]

War in three months, China intervenes in 6 months,  Armageddon in 9 months.

[BudgieForce]

War in three months, China intervenes in 6 months,  Armageddon in 9 months.

Maybe, no and no.

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[GoTfan]

War in three months, China intervenes in 6 months,  Armageddon in 9 months.

Maybe, no and no.

I've got money on all three. Trump will end the world simply to satiate his own ego.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Also note that Trumpot has just implicitly endorsed the death of civilian control of the military when he referred to Secretary of Defense Mattis and Chief of Staff Kelly as military leaders. Given that Trumpot himself is mostly a (very loud, and obnoxious) figurehead, from a certain perspective we're really seeing the end of civilian government. It's just obscured by how awful the leader of the Republican Party is.

[Shadows]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

Does anyone in China believe Trump is actually calling the shots in his administration? Or that he's capable of following through on anything?

I'll also point out that for all Trump's whining that diplomacy doesn't work, he has never actually engaged in any.

Diplomacy is rubbish, only an idiot does not see it after the failure of Obama and Bill

You should be in the front-line fighting against Kim. I am sure his bravery will help win the war & scare Kim into surrendering.

[GeorgiaModerate]

War in three months, China intervenes in 6 months,  Armageddon in 9 months.

Maybe, no and no.

I've got money on all three. Trump will end the world simply to satiate his own ego.

But how will you collect if you're right?

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

Kind of nervous that the US will order a strike on NK.

[BudgieForce]

Kind of nervous that the US will order a strike on NK.

We can only go ahead with a strike if South Korea gives us the okay. And if South Korea is in a position to give the okay, than the situation is worse than I thought.

[TheSaint250]

Kind of nervous that the US will order a strike on NK.

We can only go ahead with a strike if South Korea gives us the okay. And if South Korea is in a position to give the okay, than the situation is worse than I thought.

This. We will only strike if something really is going to happen.

[Beet]

At this point the US-South Korea alliance is not helping anyone. From the South Korean perspective, the US presence is an excuse for North Korea to keep building more weapons, and prevents them from having any talks with North Korea. Further, they fear bearing the brunt of any war started by the US. From the US perspective, we have to take into account casualties in South Korea as well as agree with the South Koreans on military action, or be seen as betraying the alliance. It would be optimal for both parties to split up at this point, and for South Korea to develop its own nukes. The advantage for South Korea is, it leaves them in control of their own destiny, the advantage for the US would be that we get out of the peninsula altogether, the North Korean threat is gone as far as we are concerned, and we no longer have a dog in the fight. The whole reason for the alliance to begin with, was domino theory where Truman thought South Korea falling to communism would mean next Japan, and so on. That concern is ancient history.

[GoTfan]

The Swiss have offered to mediate discussions

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11917139

[BudgieForce]

At this point the US-South Korea alliance is not helping anyone. From the South Korean perspective, the US presence is an excuse for North Korea to keep building more weapons, and prevents them from having any talks with North Korea. Further, they fear bearing the brunt of any war started by the US. From the US perspective, we have to take into account casualties in South Korea as well as agree with the South Koreans on military action, or be seen as betraying the alliance. It would be optimal for both parties to split up at this point, and for South Korea to develop its own nukes. The advantage for South Korea is, it leaves them in control of their own destiny, the advantage for the US would be that we get out of the peninsula altogether, the North Korean threat is gone as far as we are concerned, and we no longer have a dog in the fight. The whole reason for the alliance to begin with, was domino theory where Truman thought South Korea falling to communism would mean next Japan, and so on. That concern is ancient history.

I cant even...

[pikachu]

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(source)

So, uh, China?

Does anyone in China believe Trump is actually calling the shots in his administration? Or that he's capable of following through on anything?

I'll also point out that for all Trump's whining that diplomacy doesn't work, he has never actually engaged in any.

If the goal is to denuclearize North Korea, Trump's probably right that diplomacy won't work - there's really way it's in the self-interest of the North Korean regime to give up their nuclear weapons and tbh it's not like they negotiate in good faith anyway. The more pertinent question now is whether we're willing to live with the status quo of North Korea having nuclear weapons which can hit the US. Not that I think Trump has handled this well and I don't have faith in him doing the right thing, but it's not his fault that we're at a point where we're choosing between a very bad situation and an absolutely awful one.

Kim doesn't want to end up like Saddam Hussein. They will NEVER give up their nukes. Also, we already live under the Chinese, Russian, and Pakistani nuclear threats. We should just isolate that regime, cut all trade, and leave them to rot alone. America will be fine.

Lol I didn't proofread- meant there's no way in NK's self-interest to let go of nukes. To what Beet's saying, Kim will just find new excuses to build weapons. Even if the US leaves, the fundamental calculus for the regime doesn't change - possession of nukes is the only way to guarantee regime survival in case there's any external or internal threat.

[GoTfan]

Well that's it then. We'll be at war in the morning.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

At this point the US-South Korea alliance is not helping anyone. From the South Korean perspective, the US presence is an excuse for North Korea to keep building more weapons, and prevents them from having any talks with North Korea. Further, they fear bearing the brunt of any war started by the US. From the US perspective, we have to take into account casualties in South Korea as well as agree with the South Koreans on military action, or be seen as betraying the alliance. It would be optimal for both parties to split up at this point, and for South Korea to develop its own nukes. The advantage for South Korea is, it leaves them in control of their own destiny, the advantage for the US would be that we get out of the peninsula altogether, the North Korean threat is gone as far as we are concerned, and we no longer have a dog in the fight. The whole reason for the alliance to begin with, was domino theory where Truman thought South Korea falling to communism would mean next Japan, and so on. That concern is ancient history.

It would be optimal for the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to be de facto destroyed by the US encouraging its allies to develop nuclear weapons? Are you insane?

[BudgieForce]

Well that's it then. We'll be at war in the morning.

Congrats on the paranoia.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Another ICBM and potentially another nuke test inbound http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/05/asia/north-korea-icbm/index.html

I guess there's not enough news happening today.

[GlobeSoc]

That situation could cause a DOW on 9/11...wow

[Frodo]

Interesting article on the extent of how much the China-North Korea relationship has soured.

Oh, that is fascinating.

I wonder how we should react if North Korea lobs a nuclear missile at China, instead of Guam or the continental United States.  More importantly, how would China respond?  Would it flood troops into North Korea, and effectively annex it after annihilating the Kim dynasty root and branch?  

[pikachu]

Interesting article on the extent of how much the China-North Korea relationship has soured.

Oh, that is fascinating.

I wonder how we should react if North Korea lobs a nuclear missile at China, instead of Guam or the continental United States.  More importantly, how would China respond?  Would it flood troops into North Korea, and effectively annex it after annihilating the Kim dynasty root and branch?  

I think they would invade, but I can't see a scenario where annexation is a plausible long-term solution. With annexation + presumable liberalization of North Korea that comes with that, there's no way that North Koreans will want to live under Chinese rule when they people who are culturally more similar them, who they feel a sense of nationhood with are to the south. On the Chinese side, I find it hard to believe they'll feel enthusiastic to inherit the mess that North Korea is, especially when you how unwilling South Korea is. On a similar note, it's also an open question on how South Korea will feel about China invading territory they technically claim.