North Korea Mega Thread

[Higgins]

North Korea on Wednesday escalated already heightened tensions with the United States, warning that a plan to attack waters near Guam will be in place by mid-August and that President Trump understands "only absolute force."
The country's military also starkly dismissed Trump's warning, issued the day before, that he will unleash "fire and fury" on North Korea if it continues to threaten the U.S. as a "load of nonsense," according to reports.
 
"The U.S. President at [golf] links again let out a load of nonsense about 'fire and fury,' failing to grasp the ongoing grave situation," a commander of the North Korean army said, as reported by CNN. "It seems that he has not yet understood the statement. Sound dialogue is not possible with such a guy bereft of reason and only absolute force can work with him."
Tensions have been heightened for months amid the accelerating pace of North Korea's ballistic missile tests and the death of American student Otto Warmbier, who had been held prisoner in the country for 17 months.
 
But the tensions reached a new high on Tuesday after it was reported that North Korea had developed a miniaturized nuclear warhead capable of being attached to a missile.
Trump responded furiously to that development, telling reporters at his Bedminster, N.J., golf club that if Pyongyang's threats against the U.S. continued, North Korea would "be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen."
 
The president's inflammatory rhetoric quickly prompted a response from North Korea's military, which said that it was considering a preemptive strike on Guam, a U.S. territory in the Pacific that hosts about 6,000 American troops in addition to thousands of civilians.
 
Democrats and some Republicans quickly denounced Trump's remarks as reckless.
 
The administration acknowledged Wednesday that Trump's specific comments were not planned in advance, though it denied being caught off guard.
In a statement, Defense Secretary James Mattis indicated the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) could face a military response for its actions, not its threats.
“The DPRK must choose to stop isolating itself and stand down its pursuit of nuclear weapons,” Mattis said. “The DPRK should cease any consideration of actions that would lead to the end of its regime and the destruction of its people.”

[JA]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

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70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

[Higgins]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

[JA]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

World war 3......better start stocking up.

[BudgieForce]

I dont get it. There is nothing to gain from striking Guam. Its not even all that militarily important anymore due to the South Korean and Japanese bases. Ignoring that, why does North Korea think they can actually warn The United States. Thats like Denmark warning Germany.

[BudgieForce]

World war 3......better start stocking up.

Even if this does escalate(which it wont), it wouldnt be world war 3. Chill.

[Mike Thick]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Legitimate criticism of the American approach to this situation, which millions of people are going to live or die based on, is a far cry from supporting NK.

[TheSaint250]

I dont get it. There is nothing to gain from striking Guam. Its not even all that militarily important anymore due to the South Korean and Japanese bases. Ignoring that, why does North Korea think they can actually warn The United States. Thats like Denmark warning Germany.

It would probably just be a propaganda machine.  Think about it: "We struck the powerful U.S." The country's people wouldn't really know that Guam isn't a target to extensively brag about hitting.  They would just be given another reason to believe that they could beat back the "imperialists".

[Beet]

North Korea once again threatened to fire missiles at Guam, this time they threatened to fire 4 near Guam.

Are they suicidal?

Yes and they literally do not give a f about international law or threats by the US to retaliate. NK is the Leeroy Jenkins of nation states.

If they were suicidal, they'd just fire at Guam with no warning. The repeated warnings and specific details given about the plans suggest they want us to know what it is if/when it happens. As for why Guam... they seem very threatened by the live-fire exercises of the two B1-B bombers, which were deployed in July. Typically our position is that military exercises are defensive, but these have been simulating the destruction of enemy missile launchers and underground facilities, which could equally be defensive or offensive.

[BudgieForce]

North Korea once again threatened to fire missiles at Guam, this time they threatened to fire 4 near Guam.

Are they suicidal?

Yes and they literally do not give a f about international law or threats by the US to retaliate. NK is the Leeroy Jenkins of nation states.

If they were suicidal, they'd just fire at Guam with no warning. The repeated warnings and specific details given about the plans suggest they want us to know what it is if/when it happens. As for why Guam... they seem very threatened by the live-fire exercises of the two B1-B bombers, which were deployed in July. Typically our position is that military exercises are defensive, but these have been simulating the destruction of enemy missile launchers and underground facilities, which could equally be defensive or offensive.

We literally do those drills every year with air and naval forces. This is the first time NK has put out a statement with exact targeting.

Probably has more to do with Trump's rhetoric than anything else.

[Beet]

North Korea once again threatened to fire missiles at Guam, this time they threatened to fire 4 near Guam.

Are they suicidal?

Yes and they literally do not give a f about international law or threats by the US to retaliate. NK is the Leeroy Jenkins of nation states.

If they were suicidal, they'd just fire at Guam with no warning. The repeated warnings and specific details given about the plans suggest they want us to know what it is if/when it happens. As for why Guam... they seem very threatened by the live-fire exercises of the two B1-B bombers, which were deployed in July. Typically our position is that military exercises are defensive, but these have been simulating the destruction of enemy missile launchers and underground facilities, which could equally be defensive or offensive.

We literally do those drills every year with air and naval forces. This is the first time NK has put out a statement with exact targeting.

Not these B1's.

"In August 2016, B-1B bombers, B-2s, and B-52s deployed to the same base together for the first time in history, at Andersen AFB. It was also the first deployment of the B-1B bomber to Guam in over a decade. "

The planes are key to one of the military options people have been talking about-

"The Pentagon has prepared a specific plan for a preemptive strike on North Korea's missile sites should President Trump order such an attack.

Two senior military officials — and two senior retired officers — told NBC News that key to the plan would be a B-1B heavy bomber attack originating from Andersen Air Force Base in Guam.

Pairs of B-1s have conducted 11 practice runs of a similar mission since the end of May, the last taking place on Monday. The training has accelerated since May, according to officials."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/b-1-bombers-key-u-s-plan-strike-north-korean-n791221

Yeah, so no wonder why they feel threatened by them.

[HisGrace]

Sound dialogue is not possible with such a guy bereft of reason and only absolute force can work with him."

Funny, sounds like the exact same thing we say about them. Maybe if the two sides stop assuming the other is insane we can avoid a war.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

North Korea once again threatened to fire missiles at Guam, this time they threatened to fire 4 near Guam.

Are they suicidal?

Yes and they literally do not give a f about international law or threats by the US to retaliate. NK is the Leeroy Jenkins of nation states.

If they were suicidal, they'd just fire at Guam with no warning. The repeated warnings and specific details given about the plans suggest they want us to know what it is if/when it happens. As for why Guam... they seem very threatened by the live-fire exercises of the two B1-B bombers, which were deployed in July. Typically our position is that military exercises are defensive, but these have been simulating the destruction of enemy missile launchers and underground facilities, which could equally be defensive or offensive.

If we try to show a little empathy, or you know humanity, the North Koreans are doing the same thing we are. There was no direct threat to nuke Guam. They said they were making a plan to conduct demonstration strikes near Guam. That's damn aggressive saber-rattling, but it's also not that much different from the US saying we have a plan to destroy the North Korea military. We need to stop the escalation before someone unwittingly panics the other side.

[AtorBoltox]

Why exactly can people not realise that the North Korean regime is not suicidal and will not launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike which would not benefit them in any way and result in their annihilation?

[Alabama_Indy10]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

Him speaking the truth is relevant to the discussion. Piss off yourself.

[JA]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

Him speaking the truth is relevant to the discussion. Piss off yourself.

And the truth is what, exactly? Support Trump's Twitter tantrums that could initiate an unnecessary potential nuclear conflict? Support the US meddling in affairs, once again, where we don't belong and thereby endangering the lives of tens of millions of people? North Korea's hatred of us is our fault because we intervened in a conflict that didn't involve us and consequently destroyed their country and killed over a million of their people. And ever since that time, we've antagonized them and launched a series of regime changes in other countries that have caused them to seek nuclear weapons as a self-defense mechanism.

I don't have loyalty to any country; feel about that however you want. My only concern is innocent lives being endangered by two madmen, but only one of which would initiate a war. That particular madman is Trump, whose actions are being defended and supported by people who feel no threat to their lives or those of their family should war start.

So, again, piss off.

[Alabama_Indy10]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

Him speaking the truth is relevant to the discussion. Piss off yourself.

And the truth is what, exactly? Support Trump's Twitter tantrums that could initiate an unnecessary potential nuclear conflict? Support the US meddling in affairs, once again, where we don't belong and thereby endangering the lives of tens of millions of people? North Korea's hatred of us is our fault because we intervened in a conflict that didn't involve us and consequently destroyed their country and killed over a million of their people. And ever since that time, we've antagonized them and launched a series of regime changes in other countries that have caused them to seek nuclear weapons as a self-defense mechanism.

I don't have loyalty to any country; feel about that however you want. My only concern is innocent lives being endangered by two madmen, but only one of which would initiate a war. That particular madman is Trump, whose actions are being defended and supported by people who feel no threat to their lives or those of their family should war start.

So, again, piss off.

This is one of most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum.

[Alabama_Indy10]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

Him speaking the truth is relevant to the discussion. Piss off yourself.

And the truth is what, exactly? Support Trump's Twitter tantrums that could initiate an unnecessary potential nuclear conflict? Support the US meddling in affairs, once again, where we don't belong and thereby endangering the lives of tens of millions of people? North Korea's hatred of us is our fault because we intervened in a conflict that didn't involve us and consequently destroyed their country and killed over a million of their people. And ever since that time, we've antagonized them and launched a series of regime changes in other countries that have caused them to seek nuclear weapons as a self-defense mechanism.

I don't have loyalty to any country; feel about that however you want. My only concern is innocent lives being endangered by two madmen, but only one of which would initiate a war. That particular madman is Trump, whose actions are being defended and supported by people who feel no threat to their lives or those of their family should war start.

So, again, piss off.

This is one of most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum.

What a pathetic rebuttal. Jacobin American said absolutely nothing objectionable in that post.

He totally didn't.. except for his demonizing of America and defense of North Korea, who I may add, has nuclear weapons pointing right at us.

[JA]

He totally didn't.. except for his demonizing of America and defense of North Korea, who I may add, has nuclear weapons pointing right at us.

Where was my information incorrect? Did the United States not involve itself in the Korean War without being directly threatened? Did the United States' involvement not lead to the death of 1+ million North Koreans and the physical destruction of their country? Did the United States not engage in regime change against unfavorable states, such as Libya and Iraq? Has the United States not maintained an antagonistic foreign policy with North Korea since the cessation of military conflict? Do 70% of South Koreans not view US power and influence as a major threat to their country?

If none of that is incorrect, then my framing of the issue up to that point is uncontroversial. Then the controversy must arise from my argument that Trump, not Kim Jong Un, is the less stable player in this ongoing crisis. Yet, I am far from the only person to take issue with Trump's approach.

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But, I forgot, you know more than the experts...

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

South Koreans ‘more worried about Trump than North Korea’, says Gareth Evans

You must be logged in to read this quote.

70% of South Koreans polled by Pew Research said that US power and influence is a major threat to their country

I know you're a Socialist, but try to support our side. Thanks

Unless you have something relevant to add to the discussion, then piss off.

Him speaking the truth is relevant to the discussion. Piss off yourself.

And the truth is what, exactly? Support Trump's Twitter tantrums that could initiate an unnecessary potential nuclear conflict? Support the US meddling in affairs, once again, where we don't belong and thereby endangering the lives of tens of millions of people? North Korea's hatred of us is our fault because we intervened in a conflict that didn't involve us and consequently destroyed their country and killed over a million of their people. And ever since that time, we've antagonized them and launched a series of regime changes in other countries that have caused them to seek nuclear weapons as a self-defense mechanism.

I don't have loyalty to any country; feel about that however you want. My only concern is innocent lives being endangered by two madmen, but only one of which would initiate a war. That particular madman is Trump, whose actions are being defended and supported by people who feel no threat to their lives or those of their family should war start.

So, again, piss off.

This is one of most disgusting things I have ever read on this forum.

Please go back to your safe space...

[Badger]

So what happens if North Korea attacks Guam with ballistic missiles? And the ideology of communism will not flourish much longer on the face of the planet. Trump is doing exactly what he needs to do IMO by issuing a warning and it means he's serious about it.

enjoy getting drafted little boy

Let's hope he's the first one to go given he's so enthusiastic about it.

I have been saying it and I would be proud to serve my country to defend it at all costs.

Then go ahead and sign up...what are you waiting for cuck?

Not everyone at Atlas loves America enough to put politics aside.

I'm not a big flag-waver, but I'm an American and I pray that our President (whether you like the fact or not) will succeed in his objectives for America in this matter.

This is exactly right. It's a fight to retain our freedoms and democracy. I'll be sure to wait for you to defend us while you cower in fear. And I'd also ask if everyone on this forum could exercise a degree of political tolerance for others' political beliefs. This isn't about our leanings, it's about the safety and security of our nation among others. If you won't protect it, you are inherently un-American.

"If you don't agree with my perception of this situation, you aren't a real American"

Sounds about right

There are people on this forum who know who they are that would root for another nation against America in a conflict; even an existential conflict.  That they have been nurtured and suckled on the breast of American public education, and sheltered from the threats much of the world's people endure daily by America's law enforcement and military apparatus, all while enjoying personal freedoms that much of the world does not enjoy, is something they are blind to.  They have received so much from America, and yet will not even defend it verbally, let alone with their lives.  

And why?  Because America isn't perfect?  Because there was once slavery and Jim Crow?  Because they have to endure Evangelical Christians in their midst?  Because they have issues when they use public restrooms that the government won't accommodate them on?  Because they don't like Trump?   Because their real loyalty is to their own ethnic group, religious sect, or political movement, and those tribal and parochial loyalties are never transcended by duty to, and love for country?  

The Un-American spirit is the spirit of a person that will not be down with his/her country when there is an existential threat to the point of wishing success on the efforts of leaders they don't like and may not agree with.  I didn't like Bush 43 and didn't like the Iraq War, but I never rooted for our troops to fail.  That many weren't as good to Obama as that doesn't make it "American" to return the favor to Trump.  There are lots of folks here that vote, that take the benefits of America, but hate the Republic for which the flag stands (or, at best, feel indifferent to it).  I won't call you out, but you give yourselves away with your rhetoric.  I hope that maturity fixes that problem someday for a number of you.

It takes an uncommon amount of stupidity to make this take

Oh, breathtakingly stupid.

Fuzzy bear, the correct answer here as to which country to Route 4 is to route for peace. This is an entirely avoidable nuclear war. Please do not confuse yourself that this has little to do with the same nuclear tensions we've had on the Korean Peninsula for over two decades, but are now exacerbated buy America being led by someone as bombastic, infantile, eager to prove he's a big boy, and just out-and-out crazy as the Kim's.

Of course 99.9% of this forum or anywhere else you go will want America to win, whatever the hell that means in a nuclear charge Korean landscape, if we go to war. However, why don't you put away your flags and victory bunting for a second and pray that someone shoots Trump full Thorazine for about a week and searches for a diplomatic result that, oh I don't know, doesn't cause a nuclear war that kills literally millions on the Korean peninsula because of, basically the way you put it, USA USA USA USA!

[HisGrace]

North Korea once again threatened to fire missiles at Guam, this time they threatened to fire 4 near Guam.

Are they suicidal?

Yes and they literally do not give a f about international law or threats by the US to retaliate. NK is the Leeroy Jenkins of nation states.

If they were suicidal, they'd just fire at Guam with no warning. The repeated warnings and specific details given about the plans suggest they want us to know what it is if/when it happens. As for why Guam... they seem very threatened by the live-fire exercises of the two B1-B bombers, which were deployed in July. Typically our position is that military exercises are defensive, but these have been simulating the destruction of enemy missile launchers and underground facilities, which could equally be defensive or offensive.

If we try to show a little empathy, or you know humanity, the North Koreans are doing the same thing we are. There was no direct threat to nuke Guam. They said they were making a plan to conduct demonstration strikes near Guam. That's damn aggressive saber-rattling, but it's also not that much different from the US saying we have a plan to destroy the North Korea military. We need to stop the escalation before someone unwittingly panics the other side.

^pretty much what I've been trying to say in both the North Korea threads condescend into a nice paragraph and why Trump's approach is a bad idea.

[pikachu]

...

I think that a strike on North Korea today would be a mistake of horrific scale, but I think it's also important to remember that the Korean War started because of an unprovoked North Korean attack on South Korea, and that if the US didn't intervene, it was more likely than not that the North would've won war. Looking at how the Kims have treated their people over the last 70 years, and how the South is today, I think it's really hard to argue that the best result of the war would've been a unification of the country. Even today, it's understandable that why the North Korean regime wants a nuclear weapon, and it's going to serve as an excellent deterrent for them, but it's also going to prolong the existence of the regime, which is bad for both the North Korean people and the region as a whole.

[JA]

...

I think that a strike on North Korea today would be a mistake of horrific scale, but I think it's also important to remember that the Korean War started because of an unprovoked North Korean attack on South Korea, and that if the US didn't intervene, it was more likely than not that the North would've won war. Looking at how the Kims have treated their people over the last 70 years, and how the South is today, I think it's really hard to argue that the best result of the war would've been a unification of the country. Even today, it's understandable that why the North Korean regime wants a nuclear weapon, and it's going to serve as an excellent deterrent for them, but it's also going to prolong the existence of the regime, which is bad for both the North Korean people and the region as a whole.

The problem was not solely that America intervened, which I would've opposed anyway, it is what we did during said intervention. As was noted in the quoted section in my previous post that pertained to our actions during the Korean War, our bombing was indiscriminate of civilian casualties and we completely leveled the country, killed over 1 million North Koreans, and bombed every form of infrastructure, including hospitals. That is what has not only provoked an intense hatred and fear among North Koreans towards us but has allowed the ruling family to feed on that paranoia and resentment for its own gain. Nothing protects a regime from its countless faults quite like militarized nationalism. And, daily, we provide them with more fuel to feed that fire which they use to protect themselves.

North Korea obtained a nuclear weapon following the elimination of a treaty signed by President Clinton. When they felt no progress was being made to ease the sanctions and isolation imposed on their country, they pursued the nuclear route. The sole hope of convincing them to denuclearize is to re-enter negotiations and sign a peace treaty with them. Since the US is determined not to do that, then their nuclear program will continue to advance, as will their provocative displays of power. Sanctions, embargos, and isolation have not worked for years now. It didn't work with Cuba or anyone else, either. Only by negotiations and defusing tensions have improvements, not only in our international relationships, but conditions in those countries occurred. The path to reforming or overthrowing the North Korean regime, without a war with millions of deaths, is through peace and cooperation.