New Republic: The Malicious Politics of Millennial-Bashing
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Author Topic: New Republic: The Malicious Politics of Millennial-Bashing  (Read 2205 times)
Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 12:40:51 PM »

I voted "FA" just because I agree with the article's premise, insofar that the GOP tends to appeal most strongly to a certain demographic, and pushing that appeal with attacks from a generational angle is a necessary part of that.  So it's true; not necessarily a revolutionary point, but true nonetheless.

That being said, and yes, this is admittedly a tangent, but millennials, quite frankly, deserve to be bashed.  And this is coming from someone who is a millennial (albeit, a much older one.. I'm in that gray area between Gen X and Millennial, but technically a millennial).

Millennials are absolutely feckless and are apparently content to basically let the Boomers raid the cupboards, leaving them completely dry, while they sit there and mutter... "meh."  Examples include:

-Occupy Wall Street; you know, that absolute sham of a protest that lasted about as long as it took for it to get cold outside, and then, "screw this."  Not exactly the storming the bastille, that. Oh, but did I never hear the end about how revolutionary it was, and how everything was going to change.  Mm-hmm.

-The Women's March, where charitably speaking, 1 out of 100 people were serious about marching, the other 99, dragged there by their peer group so they could check-in on FB and instagram photos of participating. (See everybody!  I was there!!)  The best photos were collages that included at least one photo of their food, LOL.

-Apparently content to let policies continue that drive up housing costs, making many large cities practically uninhabitable for middle-class millennials, unless you choose to live in tenement conditions.  Many of these policies benefiting primarily Boomers, which I discuss in this thread here.   I can picture politicians such as Pelosi now, sitting in her palatial SF estate, cackling at the millennial serfs as they toil around her, living 2, 3, 4 people to a room in buildings violating code that need to be condemned.  The serfs themselves, happy as a clam, content to just carry on with a "yes, m'lord."

Meanwhile, the student loan bubble continues to expand (the new mortgage for millennials-- many of these people will not own an actual home before age 40, that is, if they ever do), while we continue to flush money into Medicare, because god forbid we actually use any of those funds for something other than extending a Boomer's life by 3 months, and all the while... the typical millennials' response to any of these being a combination of a shrug of the shoulders, and oh yes... liking someone on FB who changed their profile picture to match the social-issue du jour.  But hey!  I stand in solidarity with [insert aggrieved group that I'm pretending to care about].  This all happening while the Boomer sneaks out of the house like the Grinch, sack slung across his shoulder, the words "wealth of the United States" printed on the side.  Right before he heads off to do some wind-surfing ("Hey look guys, I'm still cool!  Age is just a number!")

Hey though, it's all good.  At least I got bottomless mimosas at brunch.  *takes photo of food and checks-in on FB with self-satisfied grin.*


God I hate being part of this generation.  It deserves everything coming to it.

If I had a f**king dime for every time I hear this take...

... you could afford to buy a house in the economy the boomers destroyed.
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 01:29:34 PM »

This new article is definitely something to contribute to this thread:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/04/two-types-of-millennials.html

Old Millennials, as I’ll call them, who were born around 1988 or earlier (meaning they’re 29 and older today), really have lived substantively different lives than Young Millennials, who were born around 1989 or later, as a result of two epochal events that occurred around the time when members of the older group were mostly young adults and when members of the younger were mostly early adolescents: the financial crisis and smartphones’ profound takeover of society.

This is exactly how I often feel.

I was born in 1988. I was last in public High School in 2004. We didn't have texting or IPhones or YouTube or Twitter or Facebook or even MySpace. I got my first computer when I was 13. I got my first cell phone when I was 18.

Contrast that with my 20-year old girlfriend, just eight years younger than me but also considered to be a "millennial", and it's like two-different planets. I might as well be 70 years old.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2017, 01:53:58 PM »

This new article is definitely something to contribute to this thread:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/04/two-types-of-millennials.html

Old Millennials, as I’ll call them, who were born around 1988 or earlier (meaning they’re 29 and older today), really have lived substantively different lives than Young Millennials, who were born around 1989 or later, as a result of two epochal events that occurred around the time when members of the older group were mostly young adults and when members of the younger were mostly early adolescents: the financial crisis and smartphones’ profound takeover of society.

This is exactly how I often feel.

I was born in 1988. I was last in public High School in 2004. We didn't have texting or IPhones or YouTube or Twitter or Facebook or even MySpace. I got my first computer when I was 13. I got my first cell phone when I was 18.

Contrast that with my 20-year old girlfriend, just eight years younger than me but also considered to be a "millennial", and it's like two-different planets. I might as well be 70 years old.


That's also because you have the political views and actually act like a 70 year old. You also came from what I remember is a not well off family. My family wasn't upper middle class but we weren't ever in financial issue, we learned computers in kindergarten in the early 90s, had a computer in the late 90s. Class has a lot to do with it.
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AN63093
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 02:49:35 PM »
« Edited: August 10, 2017, 02:59:17 PM by AN63093 »

I don't think it's just a class thing, or "having the views of a 70 year old," MasterJedi.  I know a lot of you guys don't like Reaganfan and think he's a rube, but I can relate to what's he saying and he has a point.

I grew up in an upper middle to upper class household in Manhattan; I assume a setting worlds apart from his (based on how you describe it), but it wasn't necessarily all that different in terms of technology.  Some of my friends didn't have computers until the late 90s, sometimes right up into the early 00s.  A lot of it would depend on how tech-savvy (and interested in this stuff) your parents were.  My dad was a bit of a computer hobbyist, so we always had a computer in the house, even from before I was born, an old IBM machine complete with 5 1/4 floppy drives.

But the computer was very much a work machine and for my dad's programming hobby and it wasn't something I messed around with much, and certainly wasn't part of the culture.  We had an NES for that.  Yeah at school we had a bunch of Apple IIe computers, but they were practically a novelty thing at the time and computers in the house were sporadic.  I had some friends whose parents hung on to the typewriter for as long as they possibly could.

I'm older than Reaganfan, in the earliest set of years considered millenials, so I'm in a bit of a gray area where I probably have more in common with Gen X in many ways.  Some of the stuff he's talking about (prevalence of texting, facebook, twitter, etc).. I was already through most of college by the time that stuff took hold.  I was in law school when smartphones started to become popular, and at that time, it was still all about the Blackberry.  So I understand my perspective is a little bit different, but then again, he's old enough to still remember the 90s and have a childhood pre-internet, pre-kids having cell phones, etc., which I think is the key.

By the mid 90s, we had several computers connected on a LAN and internet as well (dial-up, of course), but this was atypical and very much not mainstream.  Tooling around on this stuff all day when your friends wanted you to come hang out at the arcade in the movie theater would cause you to be labeled a shut-in, geeky loser.  Quite a far cry from today, when the average teen basically sits at home all day, preferring to snapchat on their phone over hang out with their friends in person (this isn't just my hot take, there are statistics to back this up- check out The Atlantic article I posted on the last page for more about this, it's an interesting read).  These trends were already starting to become apparent among the younger millennials, and I don't think Reaganfan being old enough to spot them has much to do with his personal upbringing.

So when he says there is quite the cleavage point among millennial groupings, and people on one end may feel as if they grew up in a different world... well, I get it.  It's not just a class thing MJ, and quite honestly, it's a little pejorative of you in suggesting that.  
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2017, 03:27:16 PM »
« Edited: August 11, 2017, 09:38:26 AM by pbrower2a »

The oldest of the Millennial Generation turn 35 this year (if you use Howe and Strauss; classification). That is the age at which people start making inroads into high offices (governorships, US House and the US Senate). Millennial voters will start voting heavily when they start seeing their own generation challenging effectively the older politicians not attuned to Millennial sensibilities.

Much of economic and political life in America is ugly -- high debt from student loans, high real-estate costs, heavy reliance upon regressive taxation with loud proposals to make the tax system even more regressive, low pay, and limited opportunity. Add to this, a highly-secular generation hears much talk of religious bigotry on behalf of fundamentalist Christianity and against rational science, but with the legislative branch in the federal government and in most state legislatures under the effective control of corporate lobbyists. That is all a raw deal for most of the Millennial generation.

I'm guessing that the Millennial generation is disgusted with what it sees so far, and given a chance it will grease the skids for older politicians out of touch with this generation. Obama may not have been too bad... but the older liberals seem more intent on protecting high wages of skilled workers in unions while the Right stands for a "Christian and Corporate State" in which in return for harsh terms of insecure employment people get vague promises of Pie In the Sky When You Die. Millennial young adults are not particularly amoral, but they are unlikely to accept religion as a substitute for happiness in This World.

The rise of any generation into a significant role in political life typically comes as a wave election. To be sure, any Millennial pol will be unable to win any election solely on the strength of Millennial votes even if those are now the largest generation in the electorate. But they can run against politicians that others see as out of touch, sold out, or suspect in integrity or competence. The corporatist-fundamentalist waves of 2010 and 2014 have shown what they are, and reverse waves are about due.  

It is still possible that a Boomer in his or her sixties can be elected president, but such a pol will need to appeal to Millennial sensibilities. Pie in the Sky in return for miserable, impoverished lives here on behalf or rapacious and selfish elites (Donald Trump is about as pure an expression of rapaciousness and selfishness as there can be) is not a fitting appeal for a generation that values egalitarian economics and secular thought. They are not anti-religious. I would guess that the Pope is better respected by young white Millennial Protestants than is the current President.      

Why would a millennial care if some random 35 year old guy with no touch with the base gets a high position. It is pretty meaningless. Millennials are not homogeneous & this isn't like the emotive issue of the 1st Black president. Millennials are also divided among racial, ideological & various other factors.

What could serve as a rallying point if there is an inspiring candidate (Like Obama was in 2008) & if there are tangible benefits which they receive. Let's say college is made tuition free & they know that it could be taken away under a GOP presidency & Congress, they will turn out. Basically, politicians have to show that they can positively effect their lives & they will turn out, at  least for self-interest.

The point. A politician isn't elected because he has a constituency of people his age -- but it helps, especially if he (which can include women, by the way -- just the linguistic convention) when that pol touches some strong concerns.

American political life is increasingly geriatric, as shown by the President. Yes, young people can vote for a politician who looks like death warmed over (FDR in 1944)... but when those politicians who look like death warmed over are seen as corrupt, extreme, or simply out-of-touch those pols tend to lose.  

The Republican waves of 2010 and 2014 appealed to older voters, often reactionary in economics and in cultural values. Maybe 2016 was the last hurrah of the American (Boomer) Right nationwide.

Yes, the Right would love to get fresh blood into their cause, with younger pols convincing most people that the best way for most people to get improvements in their lives is to suffer for rapacious, cruel, elitist bosses, owners, and landlords for the indulgence of the economic elites so that those elites will decide to invest in new sweatshops that hire masses of workers who need to work two such jobs to survive, and build fresh slums overpriced from the start... and there are some Millennial adults who believe that. But most Millennial adults don't, and that will not work to get their vote any more than saying "I am a German-American" will sway the large number of Americans with German ancestry.  
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TheLeftwardTide
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« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2017, 03:51:54 PM »

This comes back around again. Conservatives, and establishment Democrats to a lesser extent, feed off of the politics of division. Divide the working class into whites and minorities on social issues - this was the GOP strategy since the 70s. Divide women and men on the issue of abortion and women's rights (muh ess jay dubyoos!!1!11!). Now, divide boomers and millennials based off of traditional generational squabble. The GOP is relying on the Democrats to take the bait and start boomer-bashing, and I hope they don't take the bait.
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Doimper
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2017, 03:54:07 PM »

Tip: The reason Business Insider etc. has so many "20 WAYS MILLENNIALS ARE KILLING DRY-CLEANING"-esque articles is because it gets them a ton of clicks from outraged millennials on Twitter
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2017, 08:43:43 AM »
« Edited: August 11, 2017, 09:06:17 AM by Reaganfan »


That's also because you have the political views and actually act like a 70 year old. You also came from what I remember is a not well off family. My family wasn't upper middle class but we weren't ever in financial issue, we learned computers in kindergarten in the early 90s, had a computer in the late 90s. Class has a lot to do with it.

Well we weren't poor, but generally middle class. My mom was a bank teller, my dad was a policeman. But yeah if I wanted a Playstation or N64 that type of stuff would have to be asked for my birthday or Christmas, in contrast to some of my friends who had that stuff when it was new in 1997, 1998. I didn't have an N64 until 2001 and a Playstation until 2002.

By the way, I can unequivocally say that I didn't use a computer until about 1997. Ever. Period. So I made it to 8 or 9 years old without ever using a computer. We got them in our classrooms in 1998, we got one at home in 2000.

I don't think it's just a class thing, or "having the views of a 70 year old," MasterJedi.  I know a lot of you guys don't like Reaganfan and think he's a rube, but I can relate to what's he saying and he has a point.

I grew up in an upper middle to upper class household in Manhattan; I assume a setting worlds apart from his (based on how you describe it), but it wasn't necessarily all that different in terms of technology.  Some of my friends didn't have computers until the late 90s, sometimes right up into the early 00s.  A lot of it would depend on how tech-savvy (and interested in this stuff) your parents were.  My dad was a bit of a computer hobbyist, so we always had a computer in the house, even from before I was born, an old IBM machine complete with 5 1/4 floppy drives.

But the computer was very much a work machine and for my dad's programming hobby and it wasn't something I messed around with much, and certainly wasn't part of the culture.  We had an NES for that.  Yeah at school we had a bunch of Apple IIe computers, but they were practically a novelty thing at the time and computers in the house were sporadic.  I had some friends whose parents hung on to the typewriter for as long as they possibly could.

I'm older than Reaganfan, in the earliest set of years considered millenials, so I'm in a bit of a gray area where I probably have more in common with Gen X in many ways.  Some of the stuff he's talking about (prevalence of texting, facebook, twitter, etc).. I was already through most of college by the time that stuff took hold.  I was in law school when smartphones started to become popular, and at that time, it was still all about the Blackberry.  So I understand my perspective is a little bit different, but then again, he's old enough to still remember the 90s and have a childhood pre-internet, pre-kids having cell phones, etc., which I think is the key.

By the mid 90s, we had several computers connected on a LAN and internet as well (dial-up, of course), but this was atypical and very much not mainstream.  Tooling around on this stuff all day when your friends wanted you to come hang out at the arcade in the movie theater would cause you to be labeled a shut-in, geeky loser.  Quite a far cry from today, when the average teen basically sits at home all day, preferring to snapchat on their phone over hang out with their friends in person (this isn't just my hot take, there are statistics to back this up- check out The Atlantic article I posted on the last page for more about this, it's an interesting read).  These trends were already starting to become apparent among the younger millennials, and I don't think Reaganfan being old enough to spot them has much to do with his personal upbringing.

So when he says there is quite the cleavage point among millennial groupings, and people on one end may feel as if they grew up in a different world... well, I get it.  It's not just a class thing MJ, and quite honestly, it's a little pejorative of you in suggesting that.  

Thank you for the articulate response. It's true that I left public school following Freshman year and completed High School via online charter school. But I still went to public school from pre-school until finishing 9th grade. But yeah, Myspace came out the year after I had left public school, Facebook two years after. My first cell phone came in 2006, my first "smart phone" in 2014 and my first I-Phone in 2015, which I still have (An I-Phone 4 that my sister gave me for Christmas when she got a newer version).

I used to be considered the computer "whiz" of my family until I was about 19 or 20 years old. What changed was the notion of "social media". The smaller and trendier the stuff got, the less and less I knew about it. I won an Apple iPod shuffle a year ago in a contest, and it's sitting on my desk gathering dust because I don't know how to use it. I tried to read the instructions but they came in this tiny foldout glossy paper and I downloaded I-Tunes and I think I spent 86-cents on a song but nothing played. I honest to God have no freaking idea what the hell to do with it and it's an expensive new, trendy item.

That's when I feel old.

Had I stayed in public High School until 2007 instead of an online charter school, then I would have been there for the MySpace and Facebook and YouTube days.

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darklordoftech
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« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 02:01:11 PM »




Have you read that new Atlantic article "Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?"  I can't remember if it was posted on this forum, or I'm thinking of a different forum, but it's an interesting article.  Its main conclusion is that post-millennials are being socialized in a completely different way- their youth do the following things about half as often as earlier generations: date, drive (or get their license), or even just get out of the house and hang out with friends.  Most youth literally just sit in their house on the phone all day.  Snapchatting has essentially replaced going to the mall with friends.

Maybe statutory rape laws, GDL laws, and parents' fears of their offsprings' friends offering cigarettes, beer, and weed are part of why.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2017, 06:54:54 AM »

I try not to blame the young for every terrible thing that they do, but it's so hard sometimes.
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mvd10
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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2017, 08:34:41 AM »

"more socially and economically liberal than their parents"

Almost stopped reading there.

Anyway, millennials probably are a lost cause for the GOP anyway. We should be focusing on Gen Z, but given Trump's self-destructive behaviour that will get harder every minute.
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