Was Google Right or Wrong to Fire the Memo Writer

[vanguard96]

As you may have heard there was a case where a man in Google's search group complained to a small group in a 10-page non-argumentative letter about the role of diversity hiring seeking to increase the number of women at Google. He cited studies showing women are less likely to enter the tech field and that even after so much money had been spent on diversity efforts the number of women at the company is the same as it was before the efforts (29% before, 31% after).

It got a lot of attention at Google and was distributed across the whole company - and eventually reported to the outside.

Citing their peer review system and creating a hostile environment Google defended his firing.

The mainstream media such as CNN, NPR, and the NY Times reported it as questioning the biological suitability of women to tech:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/technology/google-engineer-fired-gender-memo.html

The New York Times reports that the author of the memo, "said efforts by the company [Google] to reach equal representation of women in technology and leadership were “unfair, divisive, and bad for business.”

However, the New York Times cut off the first part of the quote. What Damore actually said was, "Discrimination to reach equal representation is unfair, divisive, and bad for business."

Of course Silicon Valley, Google, and so forth are very much in the liberal social values sphere so I would suspect that their response is unsurprising. I think the writer is a bit naive to assume that they would not react that way even though on inspection of his memo I don't think he is against individual women's attempts to succeed in the tech field at all as evidenced by this statement:

"Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions."

Each company is as a private company able to set up their own rules - but also is not immune to criticism from the outside world.

What are your thoughts?

I added a poll - with political split for the three parties most associated with the liberal values of Google in one group and the other parties (Republican, Libertarian, others).

I think they can fire him if they like but it reinforces the situation he described in the article. If he had wanted to succeed I think he should have approached it another way knowing how itchy these tech giants are with regard to social issues.

NOTE:
Since this is not a political issue in terms of elections or government and it is reporting on a news item I put it in off-topic rather than individual politics. If an admin wants to move it please message me first so I can understand further about the overall decision on where to place a post with a personal opinion poll.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

It is morally wrong to have fired him.

PS: You should have used "right/wrong" options instead of "yes/no".

[Beet]

Are you Right or Wrong to have posted this topic?

Yes or No?

[vanguard96]

It is morally wrong to have fired him.

PS: You should have used "right/wrong" options instead of "yes/no".

Yes,your're correct...

To clarify "Yes" means agreeing with Google. "No" means disagreeing.

[vanguard96]

Are you Right or Wrong to have posted this topic?

Yes or No?

OK. I get it - and I am right to post this topic - and you are right to criticize my grammar.

[publicunofficial]

The libertarian worldview is that business owners should have unlimited power EXCEPT to fire people for being racist or sexist.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The libertarian worldview is that business owners should have unlimited power EXCEPT to fire people for being racist or sexist.

(I hope empty quoting is allowed.)

[vanguard96]

The libertarian worldview is that business owners should have unlimited power EXCEPT to fire people for being racist or sexist.

In what context is citing data & facts and hedging his comments saying there is overlap, all individuals are different, and that diversity initiatives are not seeing a big change in representation 'being racist or sexist'? Those words are lobbed at people for less and less critical things with increasing frequency. The left talks about facts and data when we talk climate change.

I think he should have on his own gotten a warning and the person that mass shared this is an attention-getter, grandstanding type who I would be wary of.

Is it the same as saying the Gender Pay gap is 23% is a sensationalist overstatement is sexist?

At the end of the day, yes, each private company can have its own culture. I think Google is wrong to fire him but they want to appear nice to that segment of the population which is very vocal on these issues and is in great numbers in the Bay Area. I think he should have known better in a company with such high visibility.

It would be like working as a Chik Fil-A franchisee and then putting a bunch of comments saying 'having work on Sunday would be a good idea for business and that the company's no Sunday policy is a backward policy left over from the blue laws days and that Christian values are less and less important among our consumers particularly the young people who are increasingly secular these days'. You ought to know going in about the culture - particularly as a veteran.

I am sure if that person was fired for a memo to a small group that there would be a firestorm from the left and they would rain down on their sites and stores once again.

[Beet]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

[vanguard96]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

I agree it is a risky behavior - initially it was not widely shared and typically the avenue he took is not going to work.

[7,052,770]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

This. Virtually all large companies in America will fire you if you publicly and openly disagree with company policy.

[publicunofficial]

Vanguard, if this sort of thing troubles you and you want to see people protected from losing their job over stuff like this, let me blow your mind with this little concept called a labor union.

[Skunk]

They can fire/hire whoever they want.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Vanguard is asking a normative question, not a legal one.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

This. Virtually all large companies in America will fire you if you publicly and openly disagree with company policy.

That doesn't make it right. 

(Do I have to point this out to a 'socialist'?)

[Rjjr77]

legally fine and within their rights, but morally wrong.

[dax00]

agree with the memo writer on substance. also stand by a company's right to (not) hire/fire for whatever reason.

[afleitch]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

This.

[7,052,770]

Political memos should not be circulated at work, period. If the guy has a problem with a policy, he should bring it up with his managers. If I circulated a memo challenging one of my company's HR policies, even if it was neither racist nor sexist, nor even political, I would probably be fired, too.

This. Virtually all large companies in America will fire you if you publicly and openly disagree with company policy.

That doesn't make it right.  

(Do I have to point this out to a 'socialist'?)

Obviously I'm not a 'socialist' nor French. I'm wearing this avatar ironically because I'm a huge moderate Macron fanboy.

[jaichind]

agree with the memo writer on substance. also stand by a company's right to (not) hire/fire for whatever reason.

Same here.  In fact I would argue that google has an obligation to fire the memo writer.  Having such a controversial memo in discussed in public space  means that google can be sued for a hostile working environment by women google employees and in order to protect shareholders in google the right thing for google to do was to fire the memo writer.  That is true even if senior management in google agrees with what the memo writer wrote, which I suspect is the case, but current laws means that google senior management have to say and do things to protect shareholder value, which is their one and only true obligation. 

On the other hand I see a bright future for the memo writer.  His act shows an ability to speak what he believes is the truth despite existing orthodoxy.  This is a very much needed asset in companies, especially tech, large or small.  He will be get a new job soon enough with a very bright future ahead of him.

[mvd10]

Companies should be able to fire their employees whenever they want, so yeah (what a normal Republican should be)

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Companies should be able to fire their employees whenever they want, so yeah (what a normal Republican should be)

Aren't you... Dutch?

[mvd10]

Companies should be able to fire their employees whenever they want, so yeah (what a normal Republican should be)

Aren't you... Dutch?

I hate Dutch labour laws

[they don't love you like i love you]

Right. All liberal, all the time.

[Associate Justice PiT]

The libertarian worldview is that business owners should have unlimited power EXCEPT to fire people for being racist or sexist.

     Of course Google has the right to do this. That's not what the question is asking though.