Protestors Topple Confederate Monument in North Carolina

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I love how we have so much more unequivocal condemnation of vandalism than we do of neo-nazis killing and assaulting people. Great priorities.

Nope

I only read about this during my morning coffee (boyz golf weekend all weekend).

Here is what I get from this:

1) Asshole Nazi's protesting - but as far as I can tell it was initially non-violent
2) Counter-protestors show up
3) Young lady tragically gets killed by Hitler lover (who was apparently some rogue nazi)
4) Trump is the guy in the wrong.

They should have charged this punk with first degree murder, not second, and we should send him to visit Ole Sparky instead of this back and forth political nonsense all over my news feeds.  Let's punish the killer.

5) Hate speech is protected (sucks but it's true)
6) Terry McCauliffe is a douchebag panderer.

RIP to the young woman and the VSP Troopers who were killed patrolling the event.  Very sad.

Pay attention, Grace.

[HisGrace]

"But that statue has such great historical significance and meaning to the local population!"

...said absolutely no one when this happened:

We need Donald Trump to issue a statement condemning tearing down statues on "many, many sides" to deal with this tragic national crisis.

[Lord Admirale]

Do they not realize that most slaveholders did not fight in the war? They stayed at home and watched young southern men die in droves. You may not believe this, I think I mentioned it once before, but my ancestors stemming from my dad's mom (who was an orphan from Atlanta) had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. None of them owned a single slave. In fact, most of them struggled to get by. They were railroad workers, postmen, or store clerks.

Just something to think about.

True, which makes Lost Cause apologia even worse. Defending the homeland from a literal invasion is one thing, but it was those same slaveholders who led the "Redemption" and the rewriting of history around the war they instigated and then were too cowardly to fight in, letting the "crackers" die and bleed for them

(Cracker, like the term "white trash," originated with the Southern upper class)

Exactly.

[Cashew]

Ahhhhhhhhh, so vandalism and destruction of property is ok when it's lefties doing it? 

No neo confederates are not lefties. You are indeed correct however that these monstrosties are harming the property value of the nearby area.

[7,052,770]

Do they not realize that most slaveholders did not fight in the war? They stayed at home and watched young southern men die in droves. You may not believe this, I think I mentioned it once before, but my ancestors stemming from my dad's mom (who was an orphan from Atlanta) had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. None of them owned a single slave. In fact, most of them struggled to get by. They were railroad workers, postmen, or store clerks.

Just something to think about.

That's true for every war ever. I'm sure most Nazi and Japanese enlisted men were decent enough people too. Doesn't mean we should have statues to honor their leaders.

[MAINEiac4434]

You don't see Germany putting up statues in honor of "the brave men who fought for the Third Reich."

The Confederate States of America was founded by traitors who wished for slavery to last in perpetuity. Honoring Confederate veterans, leaders and history is honoring treason and slavery. If governments do not pull these monuments down, people should.

[vanguard96]

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

[Devout Centrist]

Ahhhhhhhhh, so vandalism and destruction of property is ok when it's lefties doing it? 

[Chief Justice Keef]

They should replace every Confederate statue in the South with General Sherman

[publicunofficial]

You don't see Germany putting up statues in honor of "the brave men who fought for the Third Reich."

The Confederate States of America was founded by traitors who wished for slavery to last in perpetuity. Honoring Confederate veterans, leaders and history is honoring treason and slavery. If governments do not pull these monuments down, people should.

Something I learned from this whole controversty: The words "Adolf Hitler" appear on exactly one public memorial in Germany, a small plaque in a parking lot which stands on the grounds of the old bunker. The plaque basically reads "Yes this the spot, now move along so people can park."

That's the way to do it.

[HisGrace]

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

Not crazy about Lenin/Stalin statues either and wouldn't have a problem with them being taken down. Although I think the headless one is supposed to be making fun of him. The Red Square Restaurant has a ironic/mocking Soviet kitsch theme. It's a lot easier to laugh at something like that since we don't have thousands of hardcore Marxist-Leninists marching around and launching numerous attacks every year, as is the case with Neo-Confederates/White Supremacists.

Regardless, why are we bringing up statues of Lenin and Stalin in a thread about Confederate monuments?

[Rookie Yinzer]

Good.

Do they not realize that most slaveholders did not fight in the war? They stayed at home and watched young southern men die in droves. You may not believe this, I think I mentioned it once before, but my ancestors stemming from my dad's mom (who was an orphan from Atlanta) had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. None of them owned a single slave. In fact, most of them struggled to get by. They were railroad workers, postmen, or store clerks.

Just something to think about.

So? They were still anti-black and viewed black people as animals. They were above all else fighting to protect white supremacy and perceived Northern aggression to make blacks equal.

[Orthogonian Society Treasurer]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

[Nhoj]

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

Lenin statues in vegas/atlantic city are probably more insulting to the man than tearing the things down would be.
Also In regards to the Op the statue at hand was put up in 1924 at a height of a KKK revival .

[Crumpets]

As long as we're talking failed regimes guilty of massive war crimes I'd like to see these get toppled too:
Lenin Statues in America
Las Vegas - outside Red Square Restaurant, Mandalay Bay Hotel - Headless
Atlantic City, New Jersey - in the Tropicana Casino
New York City - on top of the Red Square apartment building, E. Houston St. in the East Village[3]
Seattle - Fremont neighborhood (See Statue of Lenin (Seattle))
Head of Lenin, Los Angeles, California - outside a branch of the Ace Gallery, the Ace Museum, on the corner of La Brea Avenue and 4th Street.
Stalin:
A bust of Stalin is displayed at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

I don't know much about the other Lenin statues, but I know a lot about the Lenin Statue in Seattle, so let me explain why I think there's no comparison to be made here between it and the Confederate monuments:

- The statue was singled out for preservation because it had several unique features among Lenin statues that made it artistically significant.
- After being determined that it was not going to be destroyed, it still needed to be removed to the us from Slovakia specifically because Lenin was seen as the symbolic antithesis to the new government, just as the Confederate monuments are in the US.
- The statue has basically no meaning to local far-lefties, and despite Seattle having one of the largest Marxist blocs in the country (albeit one which is still tiny), I have never heard of any rally at the statue, it being associated specifically with Soviet Communism in their mind.
- To the rest of US, the statue is, like HisGrace noted about the statue in Vegas, essentially a symbol of Soviet kitsch. We decorate it for Christmas, we decorate it for the Fourth of July, and just for fun. In that regard, it is much more a symbol of our victory in the Cold War than anything Lenin ever personally achieved. It would be similar to a Statue of Robert E. Lee being put up at the US Grant Presidential library, or one of Jefferson Davis in the White House bathroom.
- To the vast majority of Seattlites, the statue represents our ability to make light of old conflicts, bury the hatchet with the former communist countries, and generally thumb our nose at McCarthyists. The important distinction is that nobody here feels any sort of historical allegiance to Lenin and, quite the opposite, see him as something worthy of mocking and messing with. If there were any statues in the South that were treated similarly, maybe I'd feel different about them being removed.

[Daniel909012]

The leftists are crazy and then cry for what they cause

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

Hear hear! Crazy that we need the presence of a Canuck to speak the truth!!! Finally someone who tells it like it is. The left really wants a war today to punish those beneath them who halted their KWEEN!

[afleitch]

That history, in the South, was written by the losers probably should be corrected now. Better late than never.

[Rookie Yinzer]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

And exactly why should we not feel animosity towards people who were fighting to protect slavery?

[Daniel909012]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

And exactly why should we not feel animosity towards people who were fighting to protect slavery?

Everyone practiced slavery at that time including blacks in Africa who sold their siblings as animals, The left is pathetic.

[Rookie Yinzer]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

And exactly why should we not feel animosity towards people who were fighting to protect slavery?

Everyone practiced slavery at that time including blacks in Africa who sold their siblings as animals, The left is pathetic.

So? That's not any reason that these statues should remain up. I don't revere people who practiced chattel slavery which included starvation, physical abuse, rape, murder, and torture. You are sick.

ETA: Nor do I revere those who fought to protect it or at the least fought it to keep blacks as a permanent subhuman class.

[Hindsight was 2020]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

And exactly why should we not feel animosity towards people who were fighting to protect slavery?

Everyone practiced slavery at that time including blacks in Africa who sold their siblings as animals, The left is pathetic.

No they weren't by 1860 most of Europe was not using slavery and on top of that most had outlawed the practice by that time without having to fight a freakin civil war over it. An on top that the legacy of the confederacy doesn't end there because we have a little embarrassment called Jim Crowxthat followed it. Which fwibis the era most of these monuments were made.

[afleitch]

It is really remarkable that Americans are now further from achieving Lincoln's dream of national unity than they were in 1890; there are people in this thread right now who feel more animosity towards the Confederacy than did many of the men who actually fought against it.

That most of you seem to view the civil war as 'WWII on American soil' is an indictment of the American educational system.

And exactly why should we not feel animosity towards people who were fighting to protect slavery?

Everyone practiced slavery at that time including blacks in Africa who sold their siblings as animals, The left is pathetic.

Actually, the US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery and it needed a war to do it. It was the last functioning democracy to do so. Only Spain, Portugal, Brazil and a handful of semi autonomous Arab states had not abolished slavery by the time of the civil war.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I'm about as anti-CSA as they come, but I think there is a difference between flying the Confederate flag (completely against this) and having a statue of a person who happened to be in a Confederate state (Robert E. Lee).  Robert E. Lee was an American general long before the Civil War,

Actually, no. His highest rank in the USA was colonel, which was not unusual for the small pre-Civil War army. Generals were staff positions (such as Brigadier General Joseph E. Johnson who got that rank by being Quartermaster General) or brevet ranks to indicate which of several colonels would lead an assemblage of regiments, such as Brevet Brigadier General A.S. Johnson during the Utah War. There was only one Major General in the USA, Winfield Scott, who also held a brevet rank of Lieutenant General.

While Lee was offered command of what would become the Army of the Potomac and doubtless would have held at least the rank of Major General in the USA had he remained with the Union, his pre-war rank was Colonel.

[RINO Tom]

I'm about as anti-CSA as they come, but I think there is a difference between flying the Confederate flag (completely against this) and having a statue of a person who happened to be in a Confederate state (Robert E. Lee).  Robert E. Lee was an American general long before the Civil War,

Actually, no. His highest rank in the USA was colonel, which was not unusual for the small pre-Civil War army. Generals were staff positions (such as Brigadier General Joseph E. Johnson who got that rank by being Quartermaster General) or brevet ranks to indicate which of several colonels would lead an assemblage of regiments, such as Brevet Brigadier General A.S. Johnson during the Utah War. There was only one Major General in the USA, Winfield Scott, who also held a brevet rank of Lieutenant General.

While Lee was offered command of what would become the Army of the Potomac and doubtless would have held at least the rank of Major General in the USA had he remained with the Union, his pre-war rank was Colonel.

My bad ... point still stands if you throw "colonel" in there.