Can the VP refuse to become President if the sitting President is removed

[OSR stands with Israel]

from office due to impeachment .


So for example say that Trump is impeached and removed from office  , can Pence refuse to take the oath of office thus making Ryan the new President .

[GeorgiaModerate]

Probably, but why would anyone do that?  If they're not willing to serve as President, they shouldn't run for VP.

[Kleine Scheiße]

The only way this could realistically happen would be if Pence were to resign entirely before taking the oath of office but after Trump's impeachment. Even that's incredibly unlikely.

I can't imagine a situation where Pence could just sort of pass on the presidency to Ryan while holding onto the vice presidency for himself. That'd be too close to Ryan becoming president by appointment rather than through legitimate succession.

[ProudModerate2]

The only way this could realistically happen would be if Pence were to resign entirely before taking the oath of office but after Trump's impeachment. Even that's incredibly unlikely.

I can't imagine a situation where Pence could just sort of pass on the presidency to Ryan while holding onto the vice presidency for himself. That'd be too close to Ryan becoming president by appointment rather than through legitimate succession.

Agree.

[The Mikado]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

[Middle-aged Europe]

He could refuse by resigning the office himself. Technically, he still would have been president for five minutes or something.

[emailking]

He would automatically be President, but he wouldn't have the powers of the office until he took the oath. If he refused to take the oath and also refused to resign, he could be impeached as well. Presumably he would just resign if he didn't want the job.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

[Indy Texas]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

If so, I seriously doubt the Dems would allow Ryan to reappoint Pence.

[Badger]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

If so, I seriously doubt the Dems would allow Ryan to reappoint Pence.

They better have a pretty damned good reason for wanting to filibuster the appointment of the same vice president who was elected to the office, I'll be at by the Electoral College rather than the voters. It's still would leave a very bad taste in people's mouths. Besides, if you're going to filibuster someone, save it for a flip and Supreme Court Justice nominee rather then an office where, if it's holder is unwilling to succeed to the presidency, is the most power list and worthless job in the entire executive branch

[emailking]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

Yes, but the threshold is 51 votes now. So effectively it doesn't matter.

[Indy Texas]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

If so, I seriously doubt the Dems would allow Ryan to reappoint Pence.

They better have a pretty damned good reason for wanting to filibuster the appointment of the same vice president who was elected to the office, I'll be at by the Electoral College rather than the voters. It's still would leave a very bad taste in people's mouths. Besides, if you're going to filibuster someone, save it for a flip and Supreme Court Justice nominee rather then an office where, if it's holder is unwilling to succeed to the presidency, is the most power list and worthless job in the entire executive branch

They could argue his conduct during Trump's presidency (ex. repeatedly lying about the campaign's involvement with Russian parties) makes him unfit to hold the office any longer.

Or they could just do it to be mean and petty - not unlike when the GOP refused to hold hearings on Merrick Garland and paid no electoral or political price whatsoever for it.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

If so, I seriously doubt the Dems would allow Ryan to reappoint Pence.

.

The filibuster is outlawed for all presidential nominations.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

Yes, but the threshold is 51 votes now. So effectively it doesn't matter.

Well, 50 votes except in this very specific case where there wouldn't be a Vice President. It'd be funny if it failed on a 50-50 vote.

[President Johnson]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Ryan would only become acting president. To the best of my knowledge, only the Vice President can become President. Any other officer beyond the VP only becomes acting president.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

^ That is fixed by simply adding another step:



1. Pence becomes President, appoints Ryan as VP.
2. Pence resigns completely
3. Ryan becomes president
4. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency.

[emailking]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Would the appointment of a new VPOTUS be filibuster-able?

Yes, but the threshold is 51 votes now. So effectively it doesn't matter.

Well, 50 votes except in this very specific case where there wouldn't be a Vice President. It'd be funny if it failed on a 50-50 vote.

True but then presumably the actual confirmation vote would fail if there isn't a majority for cloture.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Assumption of the office of President is automatic. The only course of action would be to resign seconds later.

[FairBol]

from office due to impeachment .


So for example say that Trump is impeached and removed from office  , can Pence refuse to take the oath of office thus making Ryan the new President .

OK, here's my semi-expert opinion, LOL. 

I would assume that such an action would be legal.  However, this seems to be a grey area, as the Constitution doesn't specifically address such a thing.  Here's what the Constitution does say on the matter. 

From the Twenty-Fifth Amendment:

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So....I guess the jury's out on this one, although I would lean yes on the question. 

[FairBol]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Ryan would only become acting president. To the best of my knowledge, only the Vice President can become President. Any other officer beyond the VP only becomes acting president.

I believe the Constitution calls any VP, who takes over (before the end of the president's elected term) an "acting president".  If the VP should run for election in his own right, and win, he/she is the "president". 

[publicunofficial]

Probably, but why would anyone do that?  If they're not willing to serve as President, they shouldn't run for VP.

When Truman was told of FDR's death, he had a nervous breakdown and immediately began weeping while saying that he wasn't ready for the job. I could see the same scenario happening with a weaker man/different circumstances.


I mean, you can't FORCE someone to be President if they don't want to.

[President Johnson]

I don't think there's a way Pence gets to keep being Vice President. He either becomes President or he resigns.

Well, it would be incredibly odd, but I see nothing in the constitution against this process:

1. Pence resigns completely
2. Ryan becomes president
3. Ryan reappoints Pence to the Vice Presidency

Ryan would only become acting president. To the best of my knowledge, only the Vice President can become President. Any other officer beyond the VP only becomes acting president.

I believe the Constitution calls any VP, who takes over (before the end of the president's elected term) an "acting president".  If the VP should run for election in his own right, and win, he/she is the "president".  

Not according to the 25th amendment: "In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President."

Before the 25th amendment, there was some discussion because of the exact wording in the first version of the constitution, but that was settled by John Tyler in 1841:

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-> Wikipedia