Confederate articles in the U.S.

[Lincoln Republican]

Should all Confederate articles in the U.S. in public places be taken down except for in museums?

Please vote and discuss.

[Person Man]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

They get participation trophies because they're special snowflakes.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Do you prefer soldiers who don't get caught?

[Crumpets]

Reasons a Confederate statue should be kept:

- It's unique, or has some sort of important artistic merit
- It's privately owned on private property
- The person(s) depicted had some relation to the place where it was put up (i.e. it's okay to have a statue of Stonewall Jackson at his former house, or something)
- The person made some actual good contributions to the US at some point (I don't know enough about the Civil War to know who this would be, but some, I assume, were good people)
- It represents something other than the glorification of the person depicted. If, for example, there's some statue of Lee surrendering to Grant, or something, that would be different than Lee being depicted as a Washington-like figure.

If it meets at least one or two of these criteria, I think it can be kept. Other than that, I see no good in keeping the monuments up.

[Devout Centrist]

If it's on private property, no. All public monuments to the Confederacy ought to be converted to Union generals. There may be a slim case for Lee, given that he fought in other wars, but ultimately he and thousands of others betrayed their country in its darkest hour.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Do you prefer soldiers who don't get caught?

I wonder when we take down the big participation trophy that is the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial.

[Helsinkian]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany?

Well, the Berlin Olympic Stadium, built as a symbol of the Third Reich's might, still stands. Would you tear it down?

When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Does this apply to the Spanish republicans? They should just get over it, and accept that Franco won.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I voted No. i don't think we should whitewash our history, intentionally or unintentionally. Fix the plaques instead.
Also I don't think municipal government can be trusted to protect the statues - so ban municipalities from getting rid of Confederate monuments. North Carolina thankfully passed such a law back in 2015.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I voted No. i don't think we should whitewash our history, intentionally or unintentionally. Fix the plaques instead.
Also I don't think municipal government can be trusted to protect the statues - so ban municipalities from getting rid of Confederate monuments. North Carolina thankfully passed such a law back in 2015.

In my hometown, which served as the last capital of the confederacy for like a week, we have a civil war museum at the house jefferson davis lived in. At this civil war museum, on a memorial to dead soldiers, there was a 3rd national flag. Even though the iconoclasts claim museums are safe, the cowardly city council passed an ordinance banning any non American or Virginia flag from government property. While targeted at the one flag at the museum, this law resulted in a fair amount of innocuous flags coming down as well, such as school flags, the POW flag, and a now empty flagpole display of countries investing in our town. Because of how stupid and cowardly this decision against a flag at a frickin civil war museum was handled, the outside agitators have come in and now there are dozens of prominent confederate flags on private property throughout the city. This includes a 100 ft car dealership size flag on the highway. I would eagerly trade every one of these flags for the 1 at the museum.

In other words, what was once a single flag at a museum has ballooned into a racial backlash, because the city dropped the ball on protecting this memorial. And virginia is supposed to have one of these laws to prevent monument removal. Stupid Herring just said the flagpole mounted on the plaque was the monument and not the flag itself, even if it was attached. Racebaiting these monuments only pisses people off more, which is why Im retracting my endorsement of Ralph Northam.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I voted No. i don't think we should whitewash our history, intentionally or unintentionally. Fix the plaques instead.
Also I don't think municipal government can be trusted to protect the statues - so ban municipalities from getting rid of Confederate monuments. North Carolina thankfully passed such a law back in 2015.

In my hometown, which served as the last capital of the confederacy for like a week, we have a civil war museum at the house jefferson davis lived in. At this civil war museum, on a memorial to dead soldiers, there was a 3rd national flag. Even though the iconoclasts claim museums are safe, the cowardly city council passed an ordinance banning any non American or Virginia flag from government property. While targeted at the one flag at the museum, this law resulted in a fair amount of innocuous flags coming down as well, such as school flags, the POW flag, and a now empty flagpole display of countries investing in our town. Because of how stupid and cowardly this decision against a flag at a frickin civil war museum was handled, the outside agitators have come in and now there are dozens of prominent confederate flags on private property throughout the city. This includes a 100 ft car dealership size flag on the highway. I would eagerly trade every one of these flags for the 1 at the museum.

In other words, what was once a single flag at a museum has ballooned into a racial backlash, because the city dropped the ball on protecting this memorial. And virginia is supposed to have one of these laws to prevent monument removal. Stupid Herring just said the flagpole mounted on the plaque was the monument and not the flag itself, even if it was attached. Racebaiting these monuments only pisses people off more, which is why Im retracting my endorsement of Ralph Northam.

That's a...very unfortunate story.
Also that position Herring took seems rather absurd.
On a sidenote: why can't people in local government focus on other things? Why do they waste time going after Confederate memorials? Because it's somehow 'trendy' or something?
Please spend your time more wisely and expend time and effort on things that actually help the people you work for.

[Lord Admirale]

If it's on private property, no. All public monuments to the Confederacy ought to be converted to Union generals. There may be a slim case for Lee, given that he fought in other wars, but ultimately he and thousands of others betrayed their country in its darkest hour.

Because that's how you unite the country! Just keep pushing the lost-causers' buttons, that worked so well when affiliates of my party did that to the right last year!

Oh wait, they fought back, and now we have President Trump.

:/

My point is, doing something like that will make the lost-causers feel "persecuted" and whatnot, and will probably drive them to be much more radical, angry, and dangerous than they are now. I'm drifting off topic when I say this, but I feared if Trump lost, we'd see a wave of far-right bigotry far larger and far worse than what we saw in Charlottesville.

[Badger]

Define "articles"

[Lincoln Republican]

Define "articles"

Statues, flags, plaques, memorials, anything along that line.

When I say articles, I do not mean what has been written about the Confederacy or about Confederates.

[pbrower2a]

Define "articles"

Statues, flags, plaques, memorials, anything along that line.

When I say articles, I do not mean what has been written about the Confederacy or about Confederates.

I'm sure that many American Legion and VFW halls have souvenirs from American wars, including WWII -- including captured Nazi flags usually displayed in an unflattering manner.

[Badger]

Define "articles"

Statues, flags, plaques, memorials, anything along that line.

When I say articles, I do not mean what has been written about the Confederacy or about Confederates.

I'm sure that many American Legion and VFW halls have souvenirs from American wars, including WWII -- including captured Nazi flags usually displayed in an unflattering manner.

There is no reason to leave any Memorial plaque or flag honoring the Confederacy. Historical fact, even when favorable two the Confederacy, such as a plaque noting the site of a battle that the Confederates won, without delving into Confederate cheering, much the same way we would put up a plaque showing an area where the British defeated the American forces in the Revolutionary War war of 1812, is appropriate.

Beyond that, we have no more reason to place a memorial up to the Confederates then we would for Generals Cornwallis, Rommel, etc.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

The Confederates committed treason against the  United States of America. For that reason alone, memorials to them should not be sanctioned by our government.

[politicallefty]

I wonder when we take down the big participation trophy that is the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial.

I don't think a memorial commemorating the dead is the same thing. I'm not aware of any statues that celebrate our loss in Vietnam. If we celebrate anyone from that time, it is in spite of, not because of that we celebrate them. That is not what is happening with respect to the Confederacy, unless they're being celebrated for supporting slavery.

The Confederates committed treason against the  United States of America. For that reason alone, memorials to them should not be sanctioned by our government.

^This. I don't support the death penalty, but I find little reason to think they shouldn't have all stood trial and hanged for their crimes based on the law and society of the time (just as the Nazi leadership faced potential imprisonment or execution for their crimes after the war).

[Badger]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Do you prefer soldiers who don't get caught?

I wonder when we take down the big participation trophy that is the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial.

Would you expect the Vietnamese to have such a memorial to the American dead in Hanoi? Answer that question and I think you just answered your own

[Badger]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Do you prefer soldiers who don't get caught?

I wonder when we take down the big participation trophy that is the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial.

Would you expect the Vietnamese to have such a memorial to the American dead in Hanoi? Answer that question and I think you just answered your own rhetorical question

[Inmate Trump]

I think both sides are overreacting a little bit.

I think it's weird for leaders of the losing side in a nation's civil war should be celebrated as heroes on government property.  Surely people are not so dumb to acknowledge that, right?

[Mr. Reactionary]

Do nazis have statutes in Germany? When do losers get trophies, anyways?

Do you prefer soldiers who don't get caught?

I wonder when we take down the big participation trophy that is the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial.

Would you expect the Vietnamese to have such a memorial to the American dead in Hanoi? Answer that question and I think you just answered your own rhetorical question

I would expect the vietnamese to have a memorial to their own dead in Hanoi, and that we wouldnt care if they did. I think it would have been evil for Ho Chi Minh to have told the south vietnamese people they couldn't honor their dead or view the sacrifices of their fallen sons with anything but contempt.

[Kingpoleon]

I think both sides are overreacting a little bit.

I think it's weird for leaders of the losing side in a nation's civil war should be celebrated as heroes on government property.  Surely people are not so dumb to acknowledge that, right?

You must be more radical, you Moderate Hero!

[Devout Centrist]

If it's on private property, no. All public monuments to the Confederacy ought to be converted to Union generals. There may be a slim case for Lee, given that he fought in other wars, but ultimately he and thousands of others betrayed their country in its darkest hour.

Because that's how you unite the country! Just keep pushing the lost-causers' buttons, that worked so well when affiliates of my party did that to the right last year!

Oh wait, they fought back, and now we have President Trump.

:/

My point is, doing something like that will make the lost-causers feel "persecuted" and whatnot, and will probably drive them to be much more radical, angry, and dangerous than they are now. I'm drifting off topic when I say this, but I feared if Trump lost, we'd see a wave of far-right bigotry far larger and far worse than what we saw in Charlottesville.

They? Neo-Confederates are not responsible for Trump. In fact, this issue has nothing to do with him. If you're going to play the "unite the country" card, this policy of appeasement hasn't done anything to accomplish that.