NPR/Marist/PBS poll: 6/10 Americans against removal of Confederate Statues
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  NPR/Marist/PBS poll: 6/10 Americans against removal of Confederate Statues
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Author Topic: NPR/Marist/PBS poll: 6/10 Americans against removal of Confederate Statues  (Read 2798 times)
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2017, 04:46:21 PM »

I'm torn on this issue.  I'm not confused about slavery, slaveowners, etc, and how offensive at least some black folks (probably most black folks) think about the issue.  They have been marginalized on this issue for over 100 years; much of the "reconciliation" that occurred In the years following the Civil War was white folks becoming reconciled to other white folks, the United States becoming one nation again, and the northern white folks turning a blind eye to Jim Crow.  Blacks have very good reason to view themselves as having been marginalized, and the marginalization had real consequences for black folks (especially Southern black folks) over the decades following the Civil War. 

At least some black folks in the South were alive when the Confederate symbols were re-established.  They were not always there, they were put back, step by step, but much of the symbols were established during the period where (A) blacks were seeking an end to Jim Crow and (B) a majority of white folks supported Jim Crow while (C) the worse elements of white folks were allowed to provide violent responses to those of both races seeking recognition of racial equality in law and in fact.  They are rightfully offended by THESE particular symbols, as behind the "historical" veneer of much of this "symbolism" is a big middle finger directed toward them with repeated F-bombs being directed toward them, vocally.  I'm well aware of this reality; it's one reason I find the term "Southern Hospitality" somewhere between ironic and ridiculous.

At the same time, many white Southerners of today are, indeed, not of the mindset of their forefathers.  Many white Southerners I know have no problem with a statue of MLK alongside a statue of Lee, Jackson, etc.  They are not neo-Confederates and don't want to turn the clock back, but they do see Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al, as the sort of folks that are normally remembered and honored, and they view (with some justification) folks they have to come to view as heroes.  The folks seeking the removal of these monuments appear to these folks to be (A) labeling these people as racists en masse, and/or (B) telling them that they're stupid for being lied to about "their history" (as if Howard Zinn and his crowd are a beacon of truth and righteousness on these sorts of issues).  They have been raised to believe these folks to be brave and honorable, and those words do describe at least some Confederate leaders on levels that are not unimportant, and they are deeply offended about equating the Confederacy with the Third Reich, and I agree that this comparison is a bit much.

What is happening is folks "returning evil for evil".  These monuments are being ripped up in the spirit of a New Reconstruction, with New Scalawags ripping up the monuments, and New Carpetbaggers egging them on.  The problem with the original Reconstruction was that it wasn't completed when it was ended, but we're way past that now.  There is a spirit of "We're doing this because we can!" on the part of the "ripper uppers" and the fact that this was the spirit of those who reintroduced new monuments in the 1950s, the Southern Cross on state flags, etc, doesn't mean that it's the "ripper uppers" turn to be ungracious.  This is a solution where SOMEONE is going to have to decide to be the peacemaker and take their eyes off of nothing but what they want.

In "How To Win Friends And Influence People", Dale Carnegie devoted a chapter to getting people to do what you want them to do.  His answer to the question of how that can happen is simple; to get folks to do what you want them to do, you are going to have to make them want to do it.  He also pointed out that guilt-tripping, shaming, and coercing may get you what you want initially, but the long-term results will be disappointing.  Perhaps that spirit can begin to take root in our political leaders, left and right.  Perhaps then, we will be able to shift to issues that really matter, that might balance a budget or increase affordable access to healthcare somehow. 


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TheSaint250
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« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2017, 11:07:45 PM »

Take down these statues to traitors.
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Shameless Lefty Hack
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« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2017, 11:24:55 PM »

Replace them all with monuments to the Southern soldiers in the Union army
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Shameless Lefty Hack
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« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2017, 11:51:05 PM »

It is really is unfortunate that there has not been an effort to develop symbology for the South that isn't tainted by Confederate history.

This x1,000.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2017, 02:17:29 AM »

I find it interesting that 7% of Latinos agree with White Nationalists according to this poll. And that the Northeast and West had more folks who agree with White Nationalists than the South. Similar numbers for those who agree with the Alt-Right.
The police brutality mostly isn't as bad in the South. On almost every single racial issue, taking into account the per capita thereof, the South is better.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2017, 08:26:15 AM »

Americans overall were as a majority against Donald Trump's job performance, against his response to Charlottesville (calling it weak), and don't trust him on North Korea. However:
"Republicans were twice as likely as Democrats to say they supported keeping statues that honor Confederate leaders. Two-thirds of whites and Latinos said these statues should not be removed. African-American respondents were split, with 44 percent saying the statues should remain in place, and another 40 percent saying they need to be removed because some people find them offensive."

Full crosstabs: http://maristpoll.marist.edu/nprpbs-newshourmarist-poll-results-on-charlottesville

Who cares?

If we took a poll asking how many people wanted slavery back, and the majority were in favor, would that mean we should bring slavery back?  We're not a democracy for a reason.
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
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« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2017, 11:14:04 AM »


My ancestors were Southern Unionists, so I'd love to see them recognized.  But I don't want to tear down existing statues.
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Badger
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« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2017, 02:24:00 PM »

I dont remember learning about Confederates at all, except Lee, who is usually portrayed in a positive light.  Jefferson Davis is certainly not respected in the North.

Those names are being scratched out of textbooks as we speak.  All is well.

Inclusion in history books /=/ keeping monuments to their memory. Somehow we've kept Hitler, Goebells, bin-Laden, Stalin, etc. in the history books without maintaining statues to remember them by.

C'mon Grumps. Even you know that's a complete BS strawman.
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Unapologetic Chinaperson
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« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2017, 04:16:23 PM »

I wonder how many Americans were against the takedown of Wisconsin's Hitler statue.
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