Today two years ago...

[Virginiá]

Anyone remember when there was a conspiracy theory that Trump was sent by Clinton to win the primaries and make her president?

I never thought Trump could win, and this theory was always sitting in the back of my head...

Yes, it just seemed so perfect at the time. Here this buffoon was, seemingly tearing the GOP apart, making scandal after scandal non-stop through election day. I think it is fair to say that much of America's political prognosticator class underestimated just how much Americans would put up with from a politician. Though, I still think Trump was only seen as viable by many people because Hillary was somehow viewed equally as terrible.

Suffice to say that if at some point in the future it comes to light that that conspiracy is true, even I'll have a laugh.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Anyone remember when there was a conspiracy theory that Trump was sent by Clinton to win the primaries and make her president?

I never thought Trump could win, and this theory was always sitting in the back of my head...

Yes, it just seemed so perfect at the time. Here this buffoon was, seemingly tearing the GOP apart, making scandal after scandal non-stop through election day. I think it is fair to say that much of America's political prognosticator class underestimated just how much Americans would put up with from a politician. Though, I still think Trump was only seen as viable by many people because Hillary was somehow viewed equally as terrible.

Suffice to say that if at some point in the future it comes to light that that conspiracy is true, even I'll have a laugh.

This isn't exactly the same conspiracy, but wasn't there a similar effort by the DNC to prop up pied piper candidates like Trump and Carson as a way of handicapping the GOP?

[Virginiá]

This isn't exactly the same conspiracy, but wasn't there a similar effort by the DNC to prop up pied piper candidates like Trump and Carson as a way of handicapping the GOP?

I'm not sure that was a conspiracy so much as an actual strategy (in theory at least, idk if they pushed it). Weren't there leaked emails and/or memos that detailed that strategy? I think it may have even used the term "pied piper."

[JoshPA]

Donald Trump announced his campaign for the Republican nomination for POTUS two years ago today.

Hardly anyone thought he could win the primaries or the general election back then. Jeb Bush was still the de facto presumptive nominee. How different the nation was only two years ago.

I think he had a chance and hey look on the bright side at jeb! isnt in power

[Fuzzy Bear]

My initial reaction to Trump's candidacy was that (A) he would be a contender, (B) he had genuine popular support, and (C) the Party Establishment would do everything it could to block his nomination.  I was convinced that, to the end, the GOP would pull out every stop at the convention, and even have some states name a candidate other than Trump as the standard bearer for the GOP Electors in their state, a la Strom Thurmond in 1948. 

I never really believed that Trump would ultimately prevail, given the intensity of his opposition in both the GOP and the Democratic Party.  But I was convinced then, and am convinced now, that Trump knows things about politics and people that no one else seems to know.  He wasn't someone who was the flunky of elites, but he was nominated and elected in a series of free and fair elections.  His victory wasn't much less remarkable than Doug Flutie's Hail Mary pass in the 1985 Orange Bowl.  Perhaps, at some point, Trump's AMAZING political acumen will get the credit it deserves, regardless of whether or not you find him a MASSIVE FF or a TOTAL HP.

[Kingpoleon]

The only thing I got right then was what paper tigers Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and Rand Paul were.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I thought he could win

My dad laughed his ass off at Trump when he first announced then ended up voting for him

Yeah, I was the same. I hated Trump and thought his candidacy was a total joke but ended up not only voting for him, but enjoying his rallies and speeches.

How did people like yourself go from laughing at him to voting for him? Honest curiosity.

I'm in that same situation.  If you told me in 2014 that I'd vote for Trump, I'd have told you to get back on your meds.  I came around to Trump because of several factors:

(A) The Trump of 2015-16 advocated my views on Foreign Policy, and represented a shift away from the Neocons.  (This has come to pass somewhat, but Neocon Relapse is an issue for Trump these days.)

(B) Trump acknowledged the need for the Government to address healthcare.  I came to believe that Trump would, ultimately, "fix" Obamacare, a system that was collapsing due to its structure and the fact that the GOP blocked any sort of "fix" that would be needed.  (This is sort of where we're at now; a "fix" of Obamacare vs. Single Payer is going to be the choice in the mind of Americans.)

(C) Trump represented a challenge to the GOP's Movement Conservatives that were turning the GOP into a lockstep party where we were debating as to whether or not a Republican who dissented from orthodoxy on 1 or 2 issues was a RINO.  This thinking led to needless Government shutdowns, and made it difficult for the Federal Government to act in the wake of things like Hurricane Sandy.  The "Who's the Purest Conservative?" paradigm that came to govern the GOP Presidential race had become stifling, and had to go.  (Here, Trump runs the risk of backsliding because he has NO Democratic support and he needs the Freedom Caucus to bail him out.)

I did NOT think that Trump would become viewed as a "fascist" or as this generation's George Wallace.  These, of course, are silly perceptions, and are maintained by folks who have their own selfish reasons to maintain them, but I am amazed that Trump has been unable to shake this hyperbole.  This part amazes me the most.  Part of Trump's appeal for me was his loathing of political correctness, but I find it strange that a guy who has been as sharp as it gets in overcoming the odds to win his unlikely election can't do what needs to be done to shake the negative label.  

[Shadows]

I thought he could win

My dad laughed his ass off at Trump when he first announced then ended up voting for him

Yeah, I was the same. I hated Trump and thought his candidacy was a total joke but ended up not only voting for him, but enjoying his rallies and speeches.

How did people like yourself go from laughing at him to voting for him? Honest curiosity.

I'm in that same situation.  If you told me in 2014 that I'd vote for Trump, I'd have told you to get back on your meds.  I came around to Trump because of several factors:

(A) The Trump of 2015-16 advocated my views on Foreign Policy, and represented a shift away from the Neocons.  (This has come to pass somewhat, but Neocon Relapse is an issue for Trump these days.)

(B) Trump acknowledged the need for the Government to address healthcare.  I came to believe that Trump would, ultimately, "fix" Obamacare, a system that was collapsing due to its structure and the fact that the GOP blocked any sort of "fix" that would be needed.  (This is sort of where we're at now; a "fix" of Obamacare vs. Single Payer is going to be the choice in the mind of Americans.)

(C) Trump represented a challenge to the GOP's Movement Conservatives that were turning the GOP into a lockstep party where we were debating as to whether or not a Republican who dissented from orthodoxy on 1 or 2 issues was a RINO.  This thinking led to needless Government shutdowns, and made it difficult for the Federal Government to act in the wake of things like Hurricane Sandy.  The "Who's the Purest Conservative?" paradigm that came to govern the GOP Presidential race had become stifling, and had to go.  (Here, Trump runs the risk of backsliding because he has NO Democratic support and he needs the Freedom Caucus to bail him out.)

I did NOT think that Trump would become viewed as a "fascist" or as this generation's George Wallace.  These, of course, are silly perceptions, and are maintained by folks who have their own selfish reasons to maintain them, but I am amazed that Trump has been unable to shake this hyperbole.  This part amazes me the most.  Part of Trump's appeal for me was his loathing of political correctness, but I find it strange that a guy who has been as sharp as it gets in overcoming the odds to win his unlikely election can't do what needs to be done to shake the negative label.  

But this the same guy who said borderline fascist stuff (so the apprehension was justifiable)-

(A) Ban all Muslims
(B) Kill the families of terrorists
(C) Steal oil from Iraq
(D) Asked supporters to beat up peaceful protesters

Fascist rhetoric aside, his handling of Syria & North Korea has been on that hawkish line. He is cutting programs for ordinary people & pouring massive money in Defense which will line the pocket of big defense contractors (like the Betsy Devos type). He is not Bush level in war mongering, but that is a low bar.

Other than, if you look at his campaign promises which appealed to historically Democratic or left leaning voters, you will see he has used fake campaign rhetoric to get votes & is now hard right wing conservative President (atleast very different to the campaigner) -

(A) No Cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, SS - Proposed huge cuts to SS (Disability Insurance) & Medicaid

(B) - Infrastructure - No plan as of now (apart from rumored privatization & tax breaks)

(C) Taking on Wall Street/Hedge Fund - U-turn on Glass Steagal (His presidential platform), Carried interest loophole U-turn (not a part of his tax plan)

(D) Pharma/Drug Prices - Drugs Imports/Medicare negotiating drug prices - U-turn on both


He has turned his back on every single plan for left wing/moderate voters (add no action on NAFTA) who helped him win. As Mitch McConnell said Trump is now governing like Jeb Bush. Massive tax breaks for billionaires, Right wing extremist SC judges, Ban Trans people from military, spend more on defense, cut domestic programs, pursue a hawkish foreign policy.

Trump hasn't really done anything ideologically to change the GOP ideologically like Bernie has done to the Democrats. I know for people who felt like they were part of a movement, it is difficult to admit after 6 months that you made a big error. But somewhere down the line, left & centrist Trump voters have to be honest about what Trump is !

[60+ GOP Seats After 2018 GUARANTEED]

(A) Ban all Muslims
(B) Kill the families of terrorists
(C) Steal oil from Iraq
(D) Asked supporters to beat up peaceful protesters

Trump did not ask supporters to "beat up peace protesters." Quit listening to the media.

And "kill the families of terrorists" was one of the best ideas I have ever heard in my life.

Speaking of fascists - FDR interned Japanese Americans.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I thought he could win

My dad laughed his ass off at Trump when he first announced then ended up voting for him

Yeah, I was the same. I hated Trump and thought his candidacy was a total joke but ended up not only voting for him, but enjoying his rallies and speeches.

How did people like yourself go from laughing at him to voting for him? Honest curiosity.

I'm in that same situation.  If you told me in 2014 that I'd vote for Trump, I'd have told you to get back on your meds.  I came around to Trump because of several factors:

(A) The Trump of 2015-16 advocated my views on Foreign Policy, and represented a shift away from the Neocons.  (This has come to pass somewhat, but Neocon Relapse is an issue for Trump these days.)

(B) Trump acknowledged the need for the Government to address healthcare.  I came to believe that Trump would, ultimately, "fix" Obamacare, a system that was collapsing due to its structure and the fact that the GOP blocked any sort of "fix" that would be needed.  (This is sort of where we're at now; a "fix" of Obamacare vs. Single Payer is going to be the choice in the mind of Americans.)

(C) Trump represented a challenge to the GOP's Movement Conservatives that were turning the GOP into a lockstep party where we were debating as to whether or not a Republican who dissented from orthodoxy on 1 or 2 issues was a RINO.  This thinking led to needless Government shutdowns, and made it difficult for the Federal Government to act in the wake of things like Hurricane Sandy.  The "Who's the Purest Conservative?" paradigm that came to govern the GOP Presidential race had become stifling, and had to go.  (Here, Trump runs the risk of backsliding because he has NO Democratic support and he needs the Freedom Caucus to bail him out.)

I did NOT think that Trump would become viewed as a "fascist" or as this generation's George Wallace.  These, of course, are silly perceptions, and are maintained by folks who have their own selfish reasons to maintain them, but I am amazed that Trump has been unable to shake this hyperbole.  This part amazes me the most.  Part of Trump's appeal for me was his loathing of political correctness, but I find it strange that a guy who has been as sharp as it gets in overcoming the odds to win his unlikely election can't do what needs to be done to shake the negative label.  

Your C is basically why I have always been a little skeptical of Trump even if I voted for him in November (and would do so again with hindsight).

[uti2]

The only thing I got right then was what paper tigers Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and Rand Paul were.

?

Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, and John Kasich.

The only thing I got right then was what paper tigers Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and Rand Paul were.

Carson maybe for his own willful lack of knowledge, but for the others, consider the context. All those other candidates were attacking Trump head-on since day 1 and saw their favorables decline as a result, the only ones who didn't were Rubio/Cruz. When the latter two eventually started attacking Trump their favorables also started declining. The argument can be made that the former candidates had their potentials deflating due to attacking Trump early on, while Rubio/Cruz had their potentials inflated due to opportunistically benefiting from Trump's attacks on the other rivals.

[Crumpets]

(A) Ban all Muslims
(B) Kill the families of terrorists
(C) Steal oil from Iraq
(D) Asked supporters to beat up peaceful protesters

Trump did not ask supporters to "beat up peace protesters." Quit listening to the media.

And "kill the families of terrorists" was one of the best ideas I have ever heard in my life.

Speaking of fascists - FDR interned Japanese Americans.

So... that presumably includes this woman and her relations?


Massacring Ohio families is certainly an interesting swing state strategy going into 2020.

[Shadows]

(A) Ban all Muslims
(B) Kill the families of terrorists
(C) Steal oil from Iraq
(D) Asked supporters to beat up peaceful protesters

Trump did not ask supporters to "beat up peace protesters." Quit listening to the media.

And "kill the families of terrorists" was one of the best ideas I have ever heard in my life.

Speaking of fascists - FDR interned Japanese Americans.

Not only did he explicitly on video say that peaceful protests should be beaten up, he said that he will reimburse the legal fees if anyone does it. That is all on video. Come out of your conspiracy theory world.

Also your support of killing the family of terrorists is fascist. If you had a brother who was radicalized by ISIS or something less, should that mean your parents, sisters, you deserve to get killed?

This is flat out retarded. Why on earth should innocent people get kill? Tomorrow if you become a terrorist, should your 3 year old boy who has no idea about the world get killed?

I mean this is ridiculous, retarded, fascist,undemocratic & inhumane. This is going to the medieval ages where you will have a ruler & he would rape as money women as possible.

[Fuzzy Bear]

(A) Ban all Muslims
(B) Kill the families of terrorists
(C) Steal oil from Iraq
(D) Asked supporters to beat up peaceful protesters

Trump did not ask supporters to "beat up peace protesters." Quit listening to the media.

And "kill the families of terrorists" was one of the best ideas I have ever heard in my life.

Speaking of fascists - FDR interned Japanese Americans.

Not only did he explicitly on video say that peaceful protests should be beaten up, he said that he will reimburse the legal fees if anyone does it. That is all on video. Come out of your conspiracy theory world.

Also your support of killing the family of terrorists is fascist. If you had a brother who was radicalized by ISIS or something less, should that mean your parents, sisters, you deserve to get killed?

This is flat out retarded. Why on earth should innocent people get kill? Tomorrow if you become a terrorist, should your 3 year old boy who has no idea about the world get killed?

I mean this is ridiculous, retarded, fascist,undemocratic & inhumane. This is going to the medieval ages where you will have a ruler & he would rape as money women as possible.

As it turned out, the turmoil at Trump protests was caused by Democratic operatives recruiting folks who had varying degrees of mental instability attend these rallies to deliberately incite folks.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html?mcubz=0

As for ISIS, and other Jihadist terrorists who are not dissuaded from their murderous actions by reasonable, liberal, and humane arguments, what are we to do?  Be bigger than them and let more of our troops and more of our citizens die and be killed, or take action to convince them (in terms they understand and will respond favorably toward) to cease and desist their terrorist acts?  You tell me?

I would also ask you what YOU are going to do?  Are you going to actively pray for peace?  I mean actively pray to God in the spirit of 2 Chronicles 7:14:  "If My people, who are called by My Name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My Face, and turn from their wicked ways, the I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."; is this your plan?  Or are you going to pick up a weapon, stand a post, and defend America and its people from the Jihadist Barbarians who seek to infiltrate us, terrorize us, and destroy us?

One of the above two (2) courses of action will make Americans safer.  Name-calling directed at Trump accomplishes nothing except to entrench the "Racist" and "Fascist" untruths that folks perpetuate solely for their own political agendas.  And let's not forget that it's the President's job to ensure the safety of the AMERICAN people.  Trump isn't seeking a "fair fight"; he's seeking VICTORY!  Bravo for that.  And shame on folks with sympathy for those in the world who would kill us.  

As to the question:  "Should a 3 year old boy who has no idea of the world get killed?", I would respond thusly:

I certainly don't advocate war crimes, trashing the Geneva Convention, etc.  I'm not real thrilled about holding "enemy combatants" forever at Gitmo.  And I certainly don't want to see a 3 year old boy get killed, period.  But a reality of life is this:  KIDS PAY FOR ADULT STUPIDITY!  That's the way of the world. 

In my professional life, I have attended a number of sentencing hearings for criminal offenders.  I have seen many criminal defendants, male and female, bring their children to court, begging the court for mercy, pointing out that they have children and pleading to the court things like "My children shouldn't have to suffer for what I do!".  This logical fallacy is one that seeks those rendering judgment to overlook that in this case, the wrongdoer is using their child as a shield to deflect legitimate punishment for their acts and to prevent justice from being done.  There was no thought of "My Children!" when the acts were committed; indeed, there was often no thought of the idea that the act they were committing was morally wrong.  If someone broke into your Mom's house while she was there, burglarized it, stole something of value, terrorized her when she discovered the perpetrator in the home, should that person not be incarcerated because they are the father or mother of small children?

I agree that this is not a perfect analogy to that of civilian casualties in war.  But in many cases, families of terrorists are complicit with the terror.  Maybe not the 3 year old children, but spouses, parents, and teenage/young adult children are often complicit with the terrorist.  They are aiding those who would kill us.  And the choice these folks have made is the choice to martyr their own 3 year old children; to hide behind children as their propaganda shield in the event of military retaliation.  This is what is happening.  Remember the song 'Russians" by Sting in the 1980s, asking us to oonder if Russians love their kids as Americans do, suggesting that this was a reason to hope for peaceful solutions to conflict?  There is real reason to believe that Jihadist Terrorists do not love their children in that manner; if they did, they would not do as they do.  Ponder that for a moment; love of children is not something that folks just naturally gravitate to.  It's something they learn, or don't learn, in the course of human development. 

Our President, whomever he/she may be, had a duty to protect Americans from attack.  That duty is primary.  A President who fails to pull out all the stops to protect Americans in the face of attack is a President who failed in their PRIMARY function. 

[60+ GOP Seats After 2018 GUARANTEED]

Not only did he explicitly on video say that peaceful protests should be beaten up, he said that he will reimburse the legal fees if anyone does it. That is all on video. Come out of your conspiracy theory world.

Nope. You watch too many videos (propaganda). Trump only wants to fight against violent protestors. For example, this guy was throwing tomatoes at Trump so Trump said if someone does that, to knock them out and he'll pay the bills.

The media never mentions the Berniebro throwing tomatoes at him.

Doesn't fit their narrative that you fell for.

Also your support of killing the family of terrorists is fascist. If you had a brother who was radicalized by ISIS or something less, should that mean your parents, sisters, you deserve to get killed?

My parents would likely know actually.

- The San Bernardino shooters were building bombs in the dude's mom's apartment
- The Brussels bombers were brothers
- Osama bin Laden's son is following in his foot steps
- The Orlando shooter's wife helped him out
- The Boston Bomber parents and significant others knew
- The Manchester concert bomber's family was part of a terrorist cell
- A Paris bomber's wife said her husband was great

etc. etc.

I love going after the families of terrorists, who are themselves terrorists for aiding and abetting and hiding and feed the bomb makers and trigger pullers. I remember finding caches of weapons in homes and we never arrested the women, and I could not figure out why. It seemed so stupid, and it was so stupid.

This is flat out retarded. Why on earth should innocent people get kill? Tomorrow if you become a terrorist, should your 3 year old boy who has no idea about the world get killed?

FDR interned entire Japanese families.

Obama bombed Doctors Without Borders hospitals and his favorite past time was drone striking children (he admitted he didn't realize he'd be so good at killing).

You really think you're above this?

[Sumner 1868]

Berniebro throwing tomatoes at him.

Perhaps they mistake his hair for a small animal and tried feeding it?

[Deblano]

I graduated from high school that day.

What a terrific graduation gift.

/s