Effects of Trump calling Pakistan enemy of civilization, India to take charge
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:31:08 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Effects of Trump calling Pakistan enemy of civilization, India to take charge
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3
Author Topic: Effects of Trump calling Pakistan enemy of civilization, India to take charge  (Read 2977 times)
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: August 21, 2017, 08:45:41 PM »

Trump just gave a speech, focused on Afghanistan:

Trump called out Pakistan, called on India to challenge Pakistan in Afghanistan, announced the end of nation building, to send more troops to kill more terrorists with no timetable. More economic support to Afghanistan, but Afghanistan no longer needs to be a democracy, but they need reforms.



I don't think this will bring greater stability to South Asia.
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 08:56:44 PM »

He's not wrong, but he needs to be careful since Pakistan has nukes and tends to shift between democracy and military rule.

We provide support to Pakistan because they are pretty unstable and we don't want fringe radicals seizing power via coup and gaining access to nukes, or for Pakistan to balkanize and have nukes go missing.

In short, it's not the worst thing I've heard Trump propose, especially with being more pragmatic on reforming Afghanistan. Considering how that nation was on the brink of civil war a few years back where Kerry had to mediate, its highly unlikely that they will be a western, parliamentary democracy. They just need to be better and have more freedoms than the previous Taliban regime at this rate.
Logged
Matty
boshembechle
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,901


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 08:59:13 PM »

Bringing India into this is certainly interesting. One would think a nation with more than a billion people could easily maintain control in the region. It is not happening right now.

India has the potential to have a whoppingly powerful armed forces that could easily vanquish local foes.
Logged
bagelman
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,602
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -4.17

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 08:59:41 PM »

Trump taking the side of India is actually a good move. Pakistan was a poor ally for us, giving aid and comfort to Osama and Co. and is clearly cozying up to China as a far more potent counterweight against India than we ever could be. Also, Pakistanis hate us, Indians not so much, and India is a stronger country which has interests in containing Chinese power.
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 09:08:41 PM »

It's very sad how even DONALD TRUMP has a better foreign policy than Bush Jr. at this rate.
Logged
Matty
boshembechle
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,901


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2017, 09:18:28 PM »

It's very sad how even DONALD TRUMP has a better foreign policy than Bush Jr. at this rate.

Any random american you pull off the street would have a better foreign policy than W.
Logged
Green Line
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,577
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 09:26:49 PM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.
Logged
Matty
boshembechle
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,901


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2017, 09:28:14 PM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.

trying to nation build in INDIA???

good luck with that.....my god
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2017, 09:30:25 PM »

It's very sad how even DONALD TRUMP has a better foreign policy than Bush Jr. at this rate.

Any random american you pull off the street would have a better foreign policy than W.
Logged
Green Line
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,577
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 09:31:43 PM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.

trying to nation build in INDIA???

good luck with that.....my god

If we build it, they will come.
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 09:33:57 PM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.

trying to nation build in INDIA???

good luck with that.....my god

If we build it, they will come.

they will greet us as liberators!
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,237
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2017, 09:36:58 PM »

It's very sad how even DONALD TRUMP has a better foreign policy than Bush Jr. at this rate.

Any random american you pull off the street would have a better foreign policy than W.
Logged
Chancellor Tanterterg
Mr. X
Moderator
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,201
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2017, 09:41:00 PM »

It's very sad how even DONALD TRUMP has a better foreign policy than Bush Jr. at this rate.

Any random american you pull off the street would have a better foreign policy than W.

Sure, but Trump's more of an escaped mental patient, no?
Logged
TheSaint250
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,067


Political Matrix
E: -2.84, S: 5.22

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2017, 09:44:06 PM »

What was the India thing about? I didn't get a chance to watch the announcement.
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 09:57:20 PM »

What was the India thing about? I didn't get a chance to watch the announcement.

IIRC Trump criticized Pakistan for being too leniant/soft/supportive of terrorism and hinted at building closer ties with India over Pakistan in the War on Terror.
Logged
Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
Runeghost
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,366


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 10:41:38 PM »

What was the India thing about? I didn't get a chance to watch the announcement.

IIRC Trump criticized Pakistan for being too leniant/soft/supportive of terrorism and hinted at building closer ties with India over Pakistan in the War on Terror.

Did he run any of this by anyone before blurting it out?
Logged
Shadows
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,956
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 11:00:44 PM »

What exactly does he mean by challenge? India surely doesn't want a bloody conflict or any violent confrontation. They are already trying to diplomatically counter Pakistan. And India build the Afghanistan Parliament, many roads etc to help Afghanistan out.

This is more about nonsensical statements. What exactly does he mean? Will he stop giving aid to Pakistan? Is he going to put sanctions on Pakistan? What exactly does he want India to do (which won't be importing the wars of US for it)?

Big talk, no action. Typical Don !
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2017, 12:55:44 AM »

What was the India thing about? I didn't get a chance to watch the announcement.

IIRC Trump criticized Pakistan for being too leniant/soft/supportive of terrorism and hinted at building closer ties with India over Pakistan in the War on Terror.
Trump said he wanted India to take charge of the Afghanistan situation and become a regional power.
Logged
Gustaf
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,770


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 04:51:55 AM »

Both the statement and some of the supportive comments here sound pretty ignorant of both historic context and current conditions.

The reasons Pakistan has been a US ally is that India was a Soviet ally, with socialism written into their constitution. So it's not strange or weird in any way. With the modern-day successes of the BJP this is changing, of course. Pakistan remains an important ally because they can cause a ton of trouble if designated a foe.

India can't vanquish any local foes because the 2 they have are China and Pakistan, both of which are nuclear powers (and in the case of China economically and militarily stronger).
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,188
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2017, 05:09:29 AM »
« Edited: August 22, 2017, 05:14:34 AM by Çråbçæk »

This isn't happening in vacuum, people. It's quite clear for some time that the old Cold War alignment of India and Pakistan have been shifting. Many, many events over the past eight years - the US military's (plus close US allies like Japan and Australia's militaries) increased affiliation with India (naval exercises and the like), the acceptance of India into the us nuclear pact, the Chinese economic courting of Pakistan; makes it clear if the world is splintering into a blocs that India has chosen the US, and Pakistan China. It's a marriage of convinience on all parties sake - the US wants to use India as an easy way to control the valuable checkpoints in the Indian Ocean and South China Sea, striking at China's soft underbelly, China wants an increased access to Indian Ocean ports in Baluchistan without needing to rely on going through the Straits of Malacca, Pakistan wants a capital-heavy patron with fewer scruples about human rights and isn't constantly at loggerheads with it in Afghanistan (and that isn't droning their northern provinces) and India wants the patronage of an extremely powerful superpower that they don't currently have a border crisis with (as India does with China). This has been the case for a while, to the extent that all other states in the region (the Maldives, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Bangladesh) are drawn into the cat and mouse game between china and the us.

The one thing you can say about Trump (same with the whole NATO two percent thing) is he definitely can absorb an increasingly popular foreign policy idea and adopt it enthusiastically, especially if it aligns with the idea that the US is being taken for a ride by freeloaders. It's not a hugely subtle approach, but the most charitable approach to Trump's diplomacy is that it's a sort of Breaking The Gordian Knot approach.

But really, the trump presidency is more proof that foreign policy largely marches on irrespective of the presidency, especially if the incumbent is weak and ignorant. Which is rather alarming, all things considered.
Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,841
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 05:37:31 AM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.

trying to nation build in INDIA???

good luck with that.....my god

The Indian political system, unlike ours, is not broken.

When it comes time to make sure that America does not fall into the depravity of politics that it now wallows, maybe we could learn from the world's leading democracy. One sixth of the world's population, you know. 
Logged
Santander
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,849
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: 2.61


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 09:28:49 AM »

Pakistan is our ally. India is not. You stand with allies no matter if they're right or wrong. To talk like this is unacceptable.
Logged
Classic Conservative
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,628


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2017, 09:30:17 AM »

Good, Pakistan murders religious minorities, refuses to stand up against terrorism and harbored Osama Bin Laden. We should cut them off from our nation until they cooperate on basic human rights. #EndTheAid
Logged
Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself
omegascarlet
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,969


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2017, 10:12:46 AM »

Good, Pakistan murders religious minorities, refuses to stand up against terrorism and harbored Osama Bin Laden. We should cut them off from our nation until they cooperate on basic human rights. #EndTheAid

I'm glad you support the legalization of gay marriage in Pakistan.
Logged
Alabama_Indy10
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,319
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2017, 10:16:24 AM »

We need to guide India's development and mold it in our image.

trying to nation build in INDIA???

good luck with that.....my god

The Indian political system, unlike ours, is not broken.

When it comes time to make sure that America does not fall into the depravity of politics that it now wallows, maybe we could learn from the world's leading democracy. One sixth of the world's population, you know. 

Why is ours broken? Because your chosen candidate didn't win an election?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.055 seconds with 12 queries.