Hispanic Immigrants > Poor Rust Belt Americans

[Indy Texas]

Yikes.

[Famous Mortimer]

Even if this were true, it's irrelevant. The American government should be looking out for Americans, not Mexicans. The Mexican government can look out for Mexicans.

So, are y'all Englishmen, or whatever country your ancestors came from, or are you Americans?
If you are Americans, why doesn't that definition also apply to those who want to come here and be Americans, regardless of their ancestry?

It's completely 100% disingenuous to compare having immigrant grandparents to literally being an immigrant.

Like if you really believe there is no difference I don't know how you're smart enough to use a computer.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Can't we just, you know, judge people as individuals?

[AN63093]

Republicans are praying this becomes the theme in 2020.

Hold Erie and Luzerne, probably flip Lackawanna this time too.

[JA]

Nothing like a little liberal Malthusianism in the evening...

[Coraxion]

All this talk of "initiative" and "personal responsibility" determining who gets benefits sounds rather Republican to me.

That's the point. We're pointing out their hypocrisy.

[Famous Mortimer]

Immigrant headed families are more likely than native born families to use social services. There is no hypocrisy.

[Deblano]

Why can't we just say both are good people? Immigrants are trying to start better lives (rightfully so), and Rust Belt Americans are looking for ways to revitalize their communities.

Because we must divide and conquer each other, my friend.

/s

[Zioneer]

We're hitting stupidity levels that shouldn't even be possible

[Deblano]

We're hitting stupidity levels that shouldn't even be possible

[DrScholl]

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties. Anyway, it's true that many of the Rust Belt areas are never going to recover the jobs lost over several decades and no amount of lies is going to change that reality. No company is going to set up shop in decaying area and create jobs just to be charitable, because jobs are not charity or symbolism. And if you think that many people in those areas of have not already realized this, just look at population numbers and how they are dropping.

[Deblano]

All this talk of "initiative" and "personal responsibility" determining who gets benefits sounds rather Republican to me.

"These freaking poor rural welfare queens need to stop begging for food stamps, get off the couch, pull their goddamned pants up, and get a job! Don't go asking us hard-working taxpayers for handouts!"

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Deplorable.

[AN63093]

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties.

I didn't say messages posted here would flip counties.  Re-read my post.  I said that Republicans are likely hoping that the sentiment expressed by the OP becomes a prevalent and widespread theme in 2020, whether it be explicitly stated, or just merely implied through campaign messaging, or spread through the base by social media and memes.  And if that happens, the GOP will likely once again do well in three critical PA counties.  While I'm at it, the GOP is additionally hoping, praying in fact, that the attitudes you have towards this region of the US, and the tone in which its delivered, become woven even further into the tapestry of standard Dem messaging.  The more the GOP can make the election about that, and the less focus they can put on other things the Dems want to talk about, the better off the GOP will be.

I am merely stating observations, and relatively uncontroversial ones at that.  I'm not making any normative judgments over whether this is good, bad, or neutral.

By the way, you don't have to say "some people" and pretend like I'm not here.  You can quote me directly and address me by name.  I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

[Coraxion]

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties.

I didn't say messages posted here would flip counties.  Re-read my post.  I said that Republicans are likely hoping that the sentiment expressed by the OP becomes a prevalent and widespread theme in 2020, whether it be explicitly stated, or just merely implied through campaign messaging, or spread through the base by social media and memes.  And if that happens, the GOP will likely once again do well in three critical PA counties.  While I'm at it, the GOP is additionally hoping, praying in fact, that the attitudes you have towards this region of the US, and the tone in which its delivered, become woven even further into the tapestry of standard Dem messaging.  The more the GOP can make the election about that, and the less focus they can put on other things the Dems want to talk about, the better off the GOP will be.

I am merely stating observations, and relatively uncontroversial ones at that.  I'm not making any normative judgments over whether this is good, bad, or neutral.

By the way, you don't have to say "some people" and pretend like I'm not here.  You can quote me directly and address me by name.  I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

I would rather the Dems lose telling the truth about deplorables rather than win putting them on a pedestal.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties.

I didn't say messages posted here would flip counties.  Re-read my post.  I said that Republicans are likely hoping that the sentiment expressed by the OP becomes a prevalent and widespread theme in 2020, whether it be explicitly stated, or just merely implied through campaign messaging, or spread through the base by social media and memes.  And if that happens, the GOP will likely once again do well in three critical PA counties.  While I'm at it, the GOP is additionally hoping, praying in fact, that the attitudes you have towards this region of the US, and the tone in which its delivered, become woven even further into the tapestry of standard Dem messaging.  The more the GOP can make the election about that, and the less focus they can put on other things the Dems want to talk about, the better off the GOP will be.

I am merely stating observations, and relatively uncontroversial ones at that.  I'm not making any normative judgments over whether this is good, bad, or neutral.

By the way, you don't have to say "some people" and pretend like I'm not here.  You can quote me directly and address me by name.  I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

I would rather the Dems lose telling the truth about deplorables rather than win putting them on a pedestal.

even if we somehow buy these questionable and wrongful stereotypes you push as true, it is a terrible idea alienating a region with tons of swing voters. People of your inclinations regarding messaging tend to fail in politics.

[DrScholl]

I didn't say messages posted here would flip counties.  Re-read my post.  I said that Republicans are likely hoping that the sentiment expressed by the OP becomes a prevalent and widespread theme in 2020, whether it be explicitly stated, or just merely implied through campaign messaging, or spread through the base by social media and memes.  And if that happens, the GOP will likely once again do well in three critical PA counties.  While I'm at it, the GOP is additionally hoping, praying in fact, that the attitudes you have towards this region of the US, and the tone in which its delivered, become woven even further into the tapestry of standard Dem messaging.  The more the GOP can make the election about that, and the less focus they can put on other things the Dems want to talk about, the better off the GOP will be.

I am merely stating observations, and relatively uncontroversial ones at that.  I'm not making any normative judgments over whether this is good, bad, or neutral.

By the way, you don't have to say "some people" and pretend like I'm not here.  You can quote me directly and address me by name.  I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

And through all the identity politics, no jobs are being created in those areas and at some point Trump will have to answer for that and before 2020. There is not attitude, there is only the reality that there are jobs that aren't coming back in many places and that fault doesn't lie with immigrants, it's just how it is.

[AN63093]

And if that's the message the Dems push (i.e., Trump has not done anything for your economic situation), then the Dems will be just fine.

[AN63093]

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties.

I didn't say messages posted here would flip counties.  Re-read my post.  I said that Republicans are likely hoping that the sentiment expressed by the OP becomes a prevalent and widespread theme in 2020, whether it be explicitly stated, or just merely implied through campaign messaging, or spread through the base by social media and memes.  And if that happens, the GOP will likely once again do well in three critical PA counties.  While I'm at it, the GOP is additionally hoping, praying in fact, that the attitudes you have towards this region of the US, and the tone in which its delivered, become woven even further into the tapestry of standard Dem messaging.  The more the GOP can make the election about that, and the less focus they can put on other things the Dems want to talk about, the better off the GOP will be.

I am merely stating observations, and relatively uncontroversial ones at that.  I'm not making any normative judgments over whether this is good, bad, or neutral.

By the way, you don't have to say "some people" and pretend like I'm not here.  You can quote me directly and address me by name.  I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

I would rather the Dems lose telling the truth about deplorables rather than win putting them on a pedestal.

Well, 2020 is a redistricting year, so of all elections, it's probably not in the Dems benefit to have a bad year in 2020.

I also suspect that many people of meager economic means (and I'm not just talking about whites, either) do not share your opinion and would find it unbelievably callous.

Me?  I'll be fine.  I'm in a recession proof industry, one that is loved by both parties, and in a high enough income bracket that neither party's policies really effect me all that much.

Most others do not have this luxury.

[Dr. Arch]

And if that's the message the Dems push (i.e., Trump has not done anything for your economic situation), then the Dems will be just fine.

And it's more than true. If anything, his whole agenda embodies the opposite.

[Badger]

Can't we just, you know, judge people as individuals?

and

Why can't we just say both are good people? Immigrants are trying to start better lives (rightfully so), and Rust Belt Americans are looking for ways to revitalize their communities.

[Badger]

Even if this were true, it's irrelevant. The American government should be looking out for Americans, not Mexicans. The Mexican government can look out for Mexicans.

So, are y'all Englishmen, or whatever country your ancestors came from, or are you Americans?
If you are Americans, why doesn't that definition also apply to those who want to come here and be Americans, regardless of their ancestry?

It's completely 100% disingenuous to compare having immigrant grandparents to literally being an immigrant.

Like if you really believe there is no difference I don't know how you're smart enough to use a computer.

And the fact you can't distinguish between an citizen or lawful resident born in Mexico from "a Mexican", even when specifically pointed out to you, makes one wonder how you're smart enough to use a spoon.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Woke Tebbitism! Always a good look.

LOL at the some people in this thread thinking that messages posted here are actually going to flip counties. Anyway, it's true that many of the Rust Belt areas are never going to recover the jobs lost over several decades and no amount of lies is going to change that reality. No company is going to set up shop in decaying area and create jobs just to be charitable, because jobs are not charity or symbolism. And if you think that many people in those areas of have not already realized this, just look at population numbers and how they are dropping.

You might as well say "no companies are going to move to Detroit, they deserve their poverty" or "why can't the natives just move out the reservations?" if you really want to go down this path.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The answer is all this tribalism of nationalism from the right and identity politics of the left have the same impact: to demoralise and distract the international working class from understanding their true power.

[Koharu]

Ugh, this thread is pretty disgusting.

Rural areas, at least the ones I'm familiar with, are populated more and more by a majority of people who are either employed in working-class jobs (retail, low-end manufacturing where it still exists, trucking, etc), the few farmers that there still are, elderly people who worked good jobs or farmed but now are basically stuck where they are, and low-income young folks who, for various reasons, were unable to leave the area, mostly due to money concerns.

The truth of the matter is that immigrants help each other. If you can make it across the border, you are likely to find a community of people who speak your language and are willing to house you and help you find employment. The community is supportive because it has to be. It used to be this way in many big cities for European immigrants, and then also in specific rural communities, as well, which is why you get clusters and regions of America that have specific historical backgrounds.

If a low-income American decides, hey, there's no jobs here, and pulls up everything and goes to another community where there are jobs, they're still not going to be able to afford housing. They may be lucky enough to end up in a homeless shelter, but there's likely not going to be a community to pull them in and keep them safe while they find employment. Social services are already beyond their limits and it's exceedingly difficult to get in line for assistance, let alone survive the line. If you have children (which at least in my community, many of the younger folks still in the area do, because quite often they got "stuck" in the community by having kids in high school or right after) or even just a spouse or partner, the difficulties of relocating expand exponentially.

Neither group is better than the other group. They are just people who are trying to live their lives as best they can. Immigrants are blessed in that they have support networks. Low-income rural folks are blessed in that they usually are people of a privileged class where they are located (not always, though).

These rural towns used to be so much more, and many of them were thriving, wonderful places, but the advent of a motorized country did them in (this is why most of rural and rust-belt America had populations that peaked sometime in the 50s). No longer did every city need a variety of shops; we could travel farther to get those specialized items, and while we're there we might as well get the less specialized stuff, too. Those who still live there are often trying to make something of what's left, or improve it. There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact, I find it remarkable. Of course, many others are just fighting to get by and are worn down by life. Being worn down by life isn't the motivator that possible death is. And many, many immigrants through the southern border are arriving because they literally fear for their lives.

So, neither group is better or worse than the other. People are people are people. Most everyone is just doing the best they can to get by, and using the resources that they know they have available. Trying to split up groups like this and face them off against each other is a disgusting tactic and just furthers the wedge.