Cuomo defends Christopher Columbus statue

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

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Is Cuomo mentally challenged?

No? Are you? This is common knowledge.

[Tintrlvr]

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Is Cuomo mentally challenged?

It's about ethics in video game journalism!

I mean, he's actually not totally wrong. The Columbus statues mostly went up in the early to mid-20th century on the request of various Italian-American organizations (like the Knights of Columbus) that saw a lot of monuments of colonial-descended WASPs but no monuments of Italian-Americans and adopted Columbus as an important symbol of Italian-American pride.

Unlike the analogous situation with Confederate statues, they were not erected to remind Native Americans not to be too uppity or more generally to hearken back to a golden era of genocide against Native Americans. Doesn't mean the statues should stay up, but the distinction from Confederate statues and the point of more genuinely being about pride of a certain ethnic group that at one time genuinely was excluded from establishment culture and honors has truth to it.

[The Mikado]

Does this mean he's going to position himself as a relative moderate?

I've always thought that the conventional wisdom that you have to run to the far left was wrong, and very damaging. It was a myth in 2015-16 (Even Jim Webb would gotten a decent 15-20% of the vote as long as he stayed in, IMO) and it's a myth now. Just like it was a myth that only a far-right conservative could win the GOP nomination in 2010-16, even though none ever did. Sure, the "progressive" lane is one lane, but not the only one. It's quite possible that with half a dozen candidates all running to the left one candidate who hews to the center might just take it.

I think it's more important that a candidate not appear corrupt, and looks like he or she is on the side of "the people" than whether they are progressive on everything. And that's the bigger problem for Cuomo (besides his support for gun control and his coastal-blue state origins): his reputation for corruption. What other skeletons does he have in his closet?
 These SJW issues like statues are perfect for politicians like him to Sister Soulja off of.

I disagree. I think you can win without being part of the left, but you can't run on a platform of actively insulting them. Not anymore.

Andrew Cuomo has a lot of problems on a lot of fronts, not the least of which being that the national press is all based out of NYC and they hate him for local reasons. (Journalist Twitter usually features extensive anti-Cuomo rants about the NYC subways on a near-daily basis) He will be bashed hard out of the gate.

[The Mikado]

How was Christopher Columbus a hero?

He was lionized by Italian-Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries because after decades of being told "you're not real Americans, you don't belong here" they could respond "The first European in the New World was an Italian Catholic, we're as American as anyone else!" See the Italian-Americans naming their civic organization the Knights of Columbus, Italian-Americans treating Columbus Day as their answer to St. Patrick's Day, etc.

[Lord Admirale]

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

What's funny is that in retaliation for you saying this, they treated you the exact way you described.

[Devout Centrist]

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

What's funny is that in retaliation for you saying this, they treated you the exact way you described.

The only poster who responded to his post was BRTD!

[McGovernForPrez]

How was Christopher Columbus a hero?

He was lionized by Italian-Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries because after decades of being told "you're not real Americans, you don't belong here" they could respond "The first European in the New World was an Italian Catholic, we're as American as anyone else!" See the Italian-Americans naming their civic organization the Knights of Columbus, Italian-Americans treating Columbus Day as their answer to St. Patrick's Day, etc.

Ironically they'd have been better off basing it off the real discoverer of America, Amerigo Vespucci, who was also Italian.

[Devout Centrist]

How was Christopher Columbus a hero?

He was lionized by Italian-Americans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries because after decades of being told "you're not real Americans, you don't belong here" they could respond "The first European in the New World was an Italian Catholic, we're as American as anyone else!" See the Italian-Americans naming their civic organization the Knights of Columbus, Italian-Americans treating Columbus Day as their answer to St. Patrick's Day, etc.

Ironically they'd have been better off basing it off the real discoverer of America, Amerigo Vespucci, who was also Italian.

True, but Vespucci never had his life and exploits romanticized by Washington Irving.

[McGovernForPrez]

Come to think of it, our Capitol is named after Christopher Columbus.

[TrumpBritt24]

Corrupt Cuomo loses 2 of his 5 2020 Democratic primary supporters.

What a shame.

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

What the heck, I love hate Cuomo now...

[Possiblymaybe]

Saying Columbus is a symbol of "Italian heritage" is hardly different than saying Confederate flags and monuments embody "southern heritage." He was a genocidal murderer and a rapist, get rid of him. And no, there is no slippery slope that would lead to removing statues honoring formative American figures who owned slaves but were otherwise benevolent.

[Grayfru]

Come to think of it, our Capitol is named after Christopher Columbus.

So is the entire South American nation of Columbia.

[McGovernForPrez]

Corrupt Cuomo loses 2 of his 5 2020 Democratic primary supporters.

What a shame.

Hey a Tito Jackson supporter!!!

[McGovernForPrez]

Come to think of it, our Capitol is named after Christopher Columbus.

So is the entire South American nation of Columbia.

That is some serious irony.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don't get the taking down Columbus statues thing. In my mind there's a clear difference between individuals who rebelled and fought against the government of the United States to preserve the institution of slavery and an individual who engaged in slavery as part of a voyage which changed the cause of history, for both good and ill.

A statue of Jefferson Davis is commemorating the Confederacy; a statue of Columbus is commemorating the European discovery and colonisation of the Americas. I don't think the latter is as objectionable as the former, and I don't see how a country birthed by European colonisation like the United States could in good faith apologise for itself.

You don't see why people don't want to commemorate this and events like it?



Colonialism was objectively pretty damn awful. Sure, it gave us the world we have today, and I certainly don't think we should forget about it. But putting up statues of the figures responsible for genocide, slavery, and untold oppressions doesn't seem right.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't get the taking down Columbus statues thing. In my mind there's a clear difference between individuals who rebelled and fought against the government of the United States to preserve the institution of slavery and an individual who engaged in slavery as part of a voyage which changed the cause of history, for both good and ill.

A statue of Jefferson Davis is commemorating the Confederacy; a statue of Columbus is commemorating the European discovery and colonisation of the Americas. I don't think the latter is as objectionable as the former, and I don't see how a country birthed by European colonisation like the United States could in good faith apologise for itself.

You don't see why people don't want to commemorate this and events like it?

[img]

Colonialism was objectively pretty damn awful. Sure, it gave us the world we have today, and I certainly don't think we should forget about it. But putting up statues of the figures responsible for genocide, slavery, and untold oppressions doesn't seem right.

So, presumably, you would be in favour of removing every single statue of a US President before #30 Coolidge gave Native Americans citizenship? Lincoln, who oversaw the removal and massacre of thousands of Native Americans under his Presidency, should have his statues removed? If that's the logic of why the Columbus statues should be removed then there are going to be precious few European-American leaders before the 20th century whose statues will remain standing.

Yes, the European colonisation of the Americas was a near-genocidal disaster for indigenous Americans. But I don't see how one could honestly redress this by removing statues without erasing the entire fact of the European origin of the United States itself.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

We could just remove the statues of a particularly brutal butcher who was notably terrible even by colonization standards.

I mean the Spanish Inquisition government removed Columbus from his post because he was too brutal.

[James Monroe]

A disgrace to his father legacy, we need to prevent Cuomo from getting near the nomination. His record should caution anyone who is thinking about backing him in the primary.


Columbus is evil and rational Italians know that vile man doesn't represent the Italian community.

[politics_king]

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

I agree with you, but it should be called-out how a predominant part of America mainly in the South has way too many statues for Confederate Soldiers. We have a very messed-up way how we got to this point in our countries history. But the underlying goal has always been for Equality. We have our leaders who we idolize in a sense of how we got here. But you have to imagine the common-man who probably never agreed with everything the majority or leaders believed. They were the ones to whisper to another's ear, who did the same, and it developed into telephone until the message was able to get clearer.

We're Americans. We are a group of people who want to stand for what is best and what is right. That's the core-foundation of it all. So, we need to stand-up for everyone, whether it's kneeling during an anthem or standing up against bigotry and dividing us to who we are. As common-folk, we are one, and you always have to let the leaders know that.

[Simfan34]

I don't get the taking down Columbus statues thing. In my mind there's a clear difference between individuals who rebelled and fought against the government of the United States to preserve the institution of slavery and an individual who engaged in slavery as part of a voyage which changed the cause of history, for both good and ill.

A statue of Jefferson Davis is commemorating the Confederacy; a statue of Columbus is commemorating the European discovery and colonisation of the Americas. I don't think the latter is as objectionable as the former, and I don't see how a country birthed by European colonisation like the United States could in good faith apologise for itself.

You don't see why people don't want to commemorate this and events like it?



Colonialism was objectively pretty damn awful. Sure, it gave us the world we have today, and I certainly don't think we should forget about it. But putting up statues of the figures responsible for genocide, slavery, and untold oppressions doesn't seem right.

This is a serious question-- even in the gentlest possible trans-Atlantic contact scenario, how could these epidemics been avoided? Can people be really tasked with "moral responsibility" for processes which they did not understand and could not control? The only possible way to avoid this would've been to somehow quarantine the Americans, without knowing why, until the 19th century.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

I don't really understand why people have a problem with taking down statues of the Founders... I, for one, think that they should remain up, but I can see the argument for taking them down. These people owned other human beings, and despite it "being okay" back then, it's pretty reprehensible today. In my opinion, their influence in creating our national institutions outweigh their dark personal actions.

But when people suggest that they should come down, the knee-jerk reaction is to call that position ridiculous. I would welcome a healthy debate on the subject

[Bismarck]

Devil's advocate here. Columbus may have been brutal but his voyage joined the eastern and western hemispheres in a way that they had not been in the past. The whole development of the modern world owes something to Columbus.

[Beet]

Devil's advocate here. Columbus may have been brutal but his voyage joined the eastern and western hemispheres in a way that they had not been in the past. The whole development of the modern world owes something to Columbus.

This. Everyone was a brutal butcher back then (and still are now, judging by the threats of certain men). Do you think if the Incas had discovered Spain they would have been gentle? What's memorialized isn't the morality of the man but the significance of the voyage.

[Deblano]

I swear, if I see one more damned news story about statues....
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I will be moderately irritated.