Cuomo defends Christopher Columbus statue
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  Cuomo defends Christopher Columbus statue
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Author Topic: Cuomo defends Christopher Columbus statue  (Read 2772 times)
Mr. Morden
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« on: September 05, 2017, 10:14:25 PM »

Something tells me the 2020 Dems are going to be asked about statues representing every historical figure:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/09/04/cuomo-columbus-circle-statue/

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Illini Moderate
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 10:21:51 PM »

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 10:22:03 PM »

Does this mean he's going to position himself as a relative moderate?

I've always thought that the conventional wisdom that you have to run to the far left was wrong, and very damaging. It was a myth in 2015-16 (Even Jim Webb would gotten a decent 15-20% of the vote as long as he stayed in, IMO) and it's a myth now. Just like it was a myth that only a far-right conservative could win the GOP nomination in 2010-16, even though none ever did. Sure, the "progressive" lane is one lane, but not the only one. It's quite possible that with half a dozen candidates all running to the left one candidate who hews to the center might just take it.

I think it's more important that a candidate not appear corrupt, and looks like he or she is on the side of "the people" than whether they are progressive on everything. And that's the bigger problem for Cuomo (besides his support for gun control and his coastal-blue state origins): his reputation for corruption. What other skeletons does he have in his closet?
 These SJW issues like statues are perfect for politicians like him to Sister Soulja off of.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 10:27:11 PM »

top kek
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Rookie Yinzer
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 10:49:35 PM »

Christopher Columbus is an abhorrent criminal but there are more pressing issues. We can combat white washed history later.
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BRTD
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 10:55:26 PM »

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

Can people please shut up about this term or acting like the people described by it have any influence in the party or electoral politics? I have never heard of a Democratic politician or activist rant about how people who won't have sex with trans people are transphobic, complain about white people wearing Native American Halloween costumes, or dreadlocks or hoop earrings, or lecture people about appropriate use of pronouns. There are no actual SJWs of any influence whatsoever. All they do is engage in circle jerks on Tumblr and put out whiny newsletters at silly liberal arts colleges.
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Beet
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 11:04:33 PM »

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

Can people please shut up about this term or acting like the people described by it have any influence in the party or electoral politics? I have never heard of a Democratic politician or activist rant about how people who won't have sex with trans people are transphobic, complain about white people wearing Native American Halloween costumes, or dreadlocks or hoop earrings, or lecture people about appropriate use of pronouns. There are no actual SJWs of any influence whatsoever. All they do is engage in circle jerks on Tumblr and put out whiny newsletters at silly liberal arts colleges.

Ironically the most SJW-style language I've heard from a major politician was Donald Trump, when he pronounced LGBTQ at his convention speech. It was very effective signalling that he wasn't some "religious bigot," even if he ends up doing all their policies and appointing all their judges. Hey, at least it's a secular face doing it.
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Meatball Ron
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 12:25:45 AM »

Saying Columbus is a symbol of "Italian heritage" is hardly different than saying Confederate flags and monuments embody "southern heritage." He was a genocidal murderer and a rapist, get rid of him. And no, there is no slippery slope that would lead to removing statues honoring formative American figures who owned slaves but were otherwise benevolent.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 05:25:10 AM »
« Edited: September 06, 2017, 05:27:24 AM by Statilius the Epicurean »

I don't get the taking down Columbus statues thing. In my mind there's a clear difference between individuals who rebelled and fought against the government of the United States to preserve the institution of slavery and an individual who engaged in slavery as part of a voyage which changed the cause of history, for both good and ill.

A statue of Jefferson Davis is commemorating the Confederacy; a statue of Columbus is commemorating the European discovery and colonisation of the Americas. I don't think the latter is as objectionable as the former, and I don't see how a country birthed by European colonisation like the United States could in good faith apologise for itself.
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BRTD
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 06:34:02 AM »

But Columbus did not ever visit the modern day US, was not the first European to visit America and didn't really do anything but butcher Natives in the Caribbean ala Leopold II in a manner so brutal the same people carrying out the Spanish Inquisition removed him from his post for being too brutal.

Columbus is as deserving of a statue as Pol Pot.
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McGovernForPrez
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2017, 07:04:30 AM »

The thing is I think you'd be more justified taking down a Christopher Columbus statue than a Robert E. Lee statue. At least with Robert E. Lee he's a legitimate historical figure in the United States. The only reason Columbus is so big here is that Americans didn't know their damn history.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2017, 07:44:58 AM »

How was Christopher Columbus a hero?
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Illini Moderate
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 08:12:08 AM »

I totally agree that Columbus sucked. I have no problem with his statue being taken down either. He literally did none of the things that he gets credit for. But a lot of people are tired of all the outrage about things like that. So we should wait a couple years and take it down quietly, if anything
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 09:00:41 AM »

What the heck, I love Cuomo now...
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 10:25:57 AM »

SJWs will be the death of the Democratic party I swear. (no I'm not talking about people who simply believe in equal rights). I'm talking about the extreme leftists who will shout you down if you say anything that they disagree with

Can people please shut up about this term or acting like the people described by it have any influence in the party or electoral politics? I have never heard of a Democratic politician or activist rant about how people who won't have sex with trans people are transphobic, complain about white people wearing Native American Halloween costumes, or dreadlocks or hoop earrings, or lecture people about appropriate use of pronouns. There are no actual SJWs of any influence whatsoever. All they do is engage in circle jerks on Tumblr and put out whiny newsletters at silly liberal arts colleges.
BRTD, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if those are issues or not, it's the fact that Atlas has once again taken a complete detour and decided to chasing a shiny red ball that talks about an issue very few people rate as a top priority.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 10:43:37 AM »

The Democrats are determined to lose 2020, aren't they?
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 10:57:57 AM »
« Edited: September 06, 2017, 11:01:19 AM by Statilius the Epicurean »

But Columbus did not ever visit the modern day US, was not the first European to visit America and didn't really do anything but butcher Natives in the Caribbean ala Leopold II in a manner so brutal the same people carrying out the Spanish Inquisition removed him from his post for being too brutal.

Columbus is as deserving of a statue as Pol Pot.

1. Columbus is an important enough figure that historians divide the history of the Americas into Pre and Post-Columbian eras and lend his name to the Columbian Exchange, one of the most important events ever to happen to humanity.

2. The personal character of a statue's figure is besides the point: what matters is what the statue symbolises. This is why the "R.E. Lee was a nice guy" defence fails for statues of that particular Confederate general, because whatever Lee's personal beliefs were and however he conducted himself as an individual, the statues to him represent a commemoration of the defence of slavery as an institution etc.. With Columbus, he represents the European colonisation of the Americas, particularly by Italian-Americans as the first Italian to travel to the Americas, which is an inextricable part of the history of the United States and has both positive and negative aspects.
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BRTD
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« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 11:22:58 AM »

The Democrats are determined to lose 2020, aren't they?

I fail to see how some guy who'll most likely drop out after coming in fifth in Iowa doing something of very meglible importance indicates that.
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BRTD
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« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 11:24:52 AM »

But Columbus did not ever visit the modern day US, was not the first European to visit America and didn't really do anything but butcher Natives in the Caribbean ala Leopold II in a manner so brutal the same people carrying out the Spanish Inquisition removed him from his post for being too brutal.

Columbus is as deserving of a statue as Pol Pot.

1. Columbus is an important enough figure that historians divide the history of the Americas into Pre and Post-Columbian eras and lend his name to the Columbian Exchange, one of the most important events ever to happen to humanity.

2. The personal character of a statue's figure is besides the point: what matters is what the statue symbolises. This is why the "R.E. Lee was a nice guy" defence fails for statues of that particular Confederate general, because whatever Lee's personal beliefs were and however he conducted himself as an individual, the statues to him represent a commemoration of the defence of slavery as an institution etc.. With Columbus, he represents the European colonisation of the Americas, particularly by Italian-Americans as the first Italian to travel to the Americas, which is an inextricable part of the history of the United States and has both positive and negative aspects.

Columbus wasn't Italian and Italy never colonized anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. Italy is a younger country than the US.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 11:30:07 AM »

But Columbus did not ever visit the modern day US, was not the first European to visit America and didn't really do anything but butcher Natives in the Caribbean ala Leopold II in a manner so brutal the same people carrying out the Spanish Inquisition removed him from his post for being too brutal.

Columbus is as deserving of a statue as Pol Pot.

1. Columbus is an important enough figure that historians divide the history of the Americas into Pre and Post-Columbian eras and lend his name to the Columbian Exchange, one of the most important events ever to happen to humanity.

2. The personal character of a statue's figure is besides the point: what matters is what the statue symbolises. This is why the "R.E. Lee was a nice guy" defence fails for statues of that particular Confederate general, because whatever Lee's personal beliefs were and however he conducted himself as an individual, the statues to him represent a commemoration of the defence of slavery as an institution etc.. With Columbus, he represents the European colonisation of the Americas, particularly by Italian-Americans as the first Italian to travel to the Americas, which is an inextricable part of the history of the United States and has both positive and negative aspects.

Columbus wasn't Italian and Italy never colonized anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. Italy is a younger country than the US.

He was Genoese. We're talking about Italian people, not an Italian state (what do you think Columbus Day is celebrating??). Italy has been around as a self-conscious people of sorts since at least Roman times: read the Aeneid.
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Santander
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 11:43:47 AM »

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Helsinkian
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« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 12:58:28 PM »
« Edited: September 06, 2017, 01:00:08 PM by Helsinkian »

But Columbus did not ever visit the modern day US

He visited Puerto Rico, didn't he?
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Kringla Heimsins
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« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 01:07:04 PM »

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Is Cuomo mentally challenged?
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 02:31:52 PM »

I am legitimately curious if anyone outside of Atlas will care enough to change their vote
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Kamala
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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »

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Is Cuomo mentally challenged?

It's about ethics in video game journalism!
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