House sends $15 billion Harvey aid to Trump despite boos, hisses from Repubs

[SoLongAtlas]

$15B of Harvey aid passed the House, 90 GOP no votes https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-set-to-vote-today-on-harvey-aid-package-that-would-also-raise-debt-ceiling/2017/09/08/728ddce8-9494-11e7-8754-d478688d23b4_story.html?utm_term=.d5028da634c9

This part was great and telling how much control the Freedumb Caucus has now:

"Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) rose to ask Mulvaney if he had 42 openings for deputy directors at the Office of Management and Budget.

A bewildered Mulvaney replied he had only one vacancy.

Issa replied that that was unfortunate, because he could hire his former Freedom Caucus colleagues so that they could reverse their positions on raising the debt limit just like Mulvaney had — a response that prompted a roar in the room and caused Mulvaney, in several members’ telling, to turn red."

Issa gives no fs. Also this was damning for TX Repubs:

"Most of the state’s delegation supported the bill, but four Texas Republicans voted against it: Barton, as well as Reps. Sam Johnson, Jeb Hensarling and Mac Thornberry. The latter two men both chair major committees."

Basically small guvmint! $15B too much! unga unga, but damn our own constituents and repair efforts because of our doctrinal belief re the debt ceiling.

[Nyvin]

What's kinda humorous in a sad way is $15 bil probably won't be enough.

[Dr. Arch]

Republicans don't care about Americans. News at 11.

[Matty]

Republicans don't care about Americans. News at 11.

Yet 65% of republicans voted for the bill. (148 vs 90 who voted against). Do the 65% speak for republicans or do the 35%?

[SoLongAtlas]

Republicans don't care about Americans. News at 11.

Yet 65% of republicans voted for the bill. (148 vs 90 who voted against). Do the 65% speak for republicans or do the 35%?

The fact that 35% of the ideological heart of the GOP (Freedom Caucus, tps) even voted against this is damning enough.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Lmao I love it, Trump damaging his base and Republicans being exposed for the evil corporate zombies they really are!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Basically small guvmint! $15B too much! unga unga, but damn our own constituents and repair efforts because of our doctrinal belief re the debt ceiling.

But why let severe hurricane damage get in the way of a good anti-gov't crusade.

[publicunofficial]

Voting against disaster relief bills should earn a public flogging every time. Joe Barton is lowkey one of the most toxic people in Congress.

[Badger]

Basically small guvmint! $15B too much! unga unga, but damn our own constituents and repair efforts because of our doctrinal belief re the debt ceiling.

But why let severe hurricane damage get in the way of a good anti-gov't crusade.

[BudgieForce]

The country would be in better shape if Republicans would try to work with Democrats more often instead of bending to the Freedom Caucus.

[TheSaint250]

The country would be in better shape if Republicans would try to work with Democrats more often instead of bending to the Freedom Caucus.

It would be better if everyone moved away from their base and back to the center but that's never gonna happen.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

To be fair, it's not the Harvey aid that most of them were objecting to, but raising the debt ceiling without being able to extort a cut to some part of the budget.

[GoTfan]

Basically small guvmint! $15B too much! unga unga, but damn our own constituents and repair efforts because of our doctrinal belief re the debt ceiling.

But why let severe hurricane damage get in the way of a good anti-gov't crusade.

[pbrower2a]

The country would be in better shape if Republicans would try to work with Democrats more often instead of bending to the Freedom Caucus.

It would be better if everyone moved away from their base and back to the center but that's never gonna happen.

When the neglected center gets a voice, then the polarization that bedevils and endangers our political order will come to an end.

[gerritcole]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

[Green Line]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

What's the solution?

[KingSweden]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

Yeah this is sad, but true

[gerritcole]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

What's the solution?

Not sure there is one, we can't go back as a society in terms of political participation or social media. once the masses are brought inside the tent, hard to kick them out (i say this as part of the masses...)

the founding fathers were prescient in trying to prevent mob rule, do you really think 99% of voters understand the intricacies of health care reform, foreign policy, or any complex policy? and yet their opinions change votes

[America Needs R'hllor]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

What's the solution?

Not sure there is one, we can't go back as a society in terms of political participation or social media. once the masses are brought inside the tent, hard to kick them out (i say this as part of the masses...)

the founding fathers were prescient in trying to prevent mob rule, do you really think 99% of voters understand the intricacies of health care reform, foreign policy, or any complex policy? and yet their opinions change votes

Exactly this. Democracy is the least bad system and we must treasure it and fight for it, but still, it has some very clear flaws. This is one of them.

[The Mikado]

Issa gives no fs. Also this was damning for TX Repubs:

"Most of the state’s delegation supported the bill, but four Texas Republicans voted against it: Barton, as well as Reps. Sam Johnson, Jeb Hensarling and Mac Thornberry. The latter two men both chair major committees."

Basically small guvmint! $15B too much! unga unga, but damn our own constituents and repair efforts because of our doctrinal belief re the debt ceiling.

Barton, Johnson, and Hensarling are hundreds of miles from any affected areas, and Thornberry is literally over a thousand miles from affected areas. None of their constituents were affected by the storms at all and they don't see people in Houston as anything remotely like "theirs." From their perspectives, why bother forking over one cent in disaster relief if none of it comes to their areas? Same as the jackasses that voted against Sandy five years ago.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Good that conservatives are showing their true Hamiltonian faces on this thread with the deep hatred of the common person and the instrument(democracy) ordinary people have to wield power over the "natural elite". As  if "elites" have ever been more prescient with their votes than the common man!

But no conservatives - despite the reference to the Founding Fathers - despise the egalitarian ideals of the Enlightenment, and are terribly embarrassed their country was formed from such values. They would prefer to bootlick the British aristocracy.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Good that conservatives are showing their true Hamiltonian Jeffersonian faces on this thread with the deep hatred of the common person and the instrument(democracy) ordinary people have to wield power over the "natural elite". As  if "elites" have ever been more prescient with their votes than the common man!

But no conservatives - despite the reference to the Founding Fathers - despise the egalitarian ideals of the Enlightenment, and are terribly embarrassed their country was formed from such values. They would prefer to bootlick the British aristocracy.

FTFY

Jefferson's "democracy" wasn't the liberal version envisioned by the word to today, but more along the Athenian model where a privileged elite of property owners were equal. Hamilton on the other hand was primarily a nationalist. He wasn't as concerned who ruled as whether the proto-nation that was the United States could be kept together despite the diversity of lifestyles and customs between the various sections. He thought a monarch (be he a king or a president) would provide part of the necessary glue, but he certainly would have supported the national government as a whole providing aid to individual regions to deal with particular concerns beyond their immediate ability to cope with.

[JA]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

This take is incredibly absurd considering the mounting research demonstrating an increasing influence of money, lobbying, and other wealthy interest groups on political decision making. Political participation has even been decreasing among lower income groups in America as political and economic power increasingly concentrates in fewer hands. Yet, here you are, proclaiming this as a problem attributable to the influence of the common voter, which is the exact opposite of the cause.

[Badger]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

What's the solution?

Not sure there is one, we can't go back as a society in terms of political participation or social media. once the masses are brought inside the tent, hard to kick them out (i say this as part of the masses...)

the founding fathers were prescient in trying to prevent mob rule, do you really think 99% of voters understand the intricacies of health care reform, foreign policy, or any complex policy? and yet their opinions change votes

Do you really think even 80% of congress members understand such intricacies? Or for that matter most congress members throughout history once the Founding Fathers--arguably among one of the collectively smartest sumbitches ever gathered at one time--passed from the scene? Do we believe Trump does?

Yes, I know the argument: Stupid mass voters create stupid politicians. But the voters themselves got it right: For all her flaws and opposition to her liberal policies, Clinton would've been an inevitably and infinitely less embarrassing POTUS. Ditto for Gore vs. W. And yet in both cases it was the anti-democratic and anti-majoritarian anachronism called the Electoral College which the founders foisted upon us that gave us the far more low-brow and unqualified "leaders" in both cases.

Whenever someone talks about limiting the input of the population in electing leaders to produce a more "elite" level of leadership, they inevitably ignore that history demonstrates it tends to create a leadership who are economically elite, but hardly elite in terms of quality.

[gerritcole]

This polarization of politics comes from the common man/woman being involved - back in the day common people had no input or way to voice their concerns about issues and so congressman could backroom deal.

now everyone is on social media roasting members over votes so they're driven to extremist policies

tldr blame society not politicians

This take is incredibly absurd considering the mounting research demonstrating an increasing influence of money, lobbying, and other wealthy interest groups on political decision making. Political participation has even been decreasing among lower income groups in America as political and economic power increasingly concentrates in fewer hands. Yet, here you are, proclaiming this as a problem attributable to the influence of the common voter, which is the exact opposite of the cause.

lol did big money back trump or sanders? the koch brothers went from establishment candidate to candidate and still couldn't find a winner. the influence of money isn't bad by any stretch either, in the federalist papers madison argued that big interest groups would oppose each other and lead to a middle path. citizens united was a good step forward