Cory Booker & Jeff Merkley announce support for Bernie's Medicare for all (user search)
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  Cory Booker & Jeff Merkley announce support for Bernie's Medicare for all (search mode)
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Author Topic: Cory Booker & Jeff Merkley announce support for Bernie's Medicare for all  (Read 3249 times)
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,608
United Kingdom


« on: September 12, 2017, 10:09:30 AM »

Human rights protect individuals from others, and are not related to tangible goods or services. Nobody is entitled to the property or labor of others without compensation. Everyone has the right to life, but that does not mean a right to food, water, shelter, or healthcare, since all of those are tangible goods and services that belong to someone.

That does not mean, that as a civilized society that believes in human rights, (a relatively modern concept that was not recognized for most of human history) we do not have certain responsibilities towards those who cannot provide for themselves, but collective obligations are not human rights.

I checked OED and it defines 'right' as "A moral or legal entitlement to have or do something". Nothing about whatever nonsense you've asserted without any backing. I can define a pig to mean an animal with five legs, doesn't make it true.
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Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,608
United Kingdom


« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 08:35:03 PM »
« Edited: September 14, 2017, 08:36:53 PM by Statilius the Epicurean »

Human rights protect individuals from others, and are not related to tangible goods or services. Nobody is entitled to the property or labor of others without compensation. Everyone has the right to life, but that does not mean a right to food, water, shelter, or healthcare, since all of those are tangible goods and services that belong to someone.

That does not mean, that as a civilized society that believes in human rights, (a relatively modern concept that was not recognized for most of human history) we do not have certain responsibilities towards those who cannot provide for themselves, but collective obligations are not human rights.

I checked OED and it defines 'right' as "A moral or legal entitlement to have or do something". Nothing about whatever nonsense you've asserted without any backing. I can define a pig to mean an animal with five legs, doesn't make it true.

And it says nothing about tangible goods or services, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. Life, freedom, and citizenship are "things" that all individuals are entitled to, but not tangible things like food or drugs. All goods and services belong to someone, and if you believe in property rights, you cannot simultaneously believe that people have a birthright to the goods and services of others without compensation.

Even if I were to accept this distinction, I find the line of argument rather strange. To uphold any of my rights (citizenship, speech, life) requires the existence of a police force and public courts system which is maintained by taking from the property of others via taxation. If no-one ever had any rights-based claim to the property of others then there would be no rights enforceable whatsoever. The right to healthcare isn't any different from the right to not be enslaved.

This is why people hate libertarians: they live in a realm of abstraction and think they can argue from their dumb first principles to the real world without stopping to think how silly it is.

A right is a right when the community agrees it exists as a right. It's not complicated.
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