Clinton on Maddow last night. Why do people hate her?
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  Clinton on Maddow last night. Why do people hate her?
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Author Topic: Clinton on Maddow last night. Why do people hate her?  (Read 4056 times)
BlueSwan
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« on: September 15, 2017, 01:15:41 AM »

Saw Hillary on Rachel Maddow last night. If you haven't seen it, jump to Rachel's website.

Watching it, I yet again had to ask myself how on earth this woman inspires such vitriolic hatred. It really doesn't make any sense whatsoever, unless you acknowledge that contempt for an ambitious woman is a very real thing.

As always she comes off as incredibly well-informed, well-articulated and just extremely competent. Any reasonable person would acknowledge that she would make for a much more competent president than the current trainwreck.

Sure I can understand that some would find her boring or uncharismatic, but that is rarely the criticism that is waged against her. It's usually some unfounded allegations of curruption or her being a blood thirsty warhawk or similar nonsense, which in my view, again, are allegations that would never have been made about her had she been a man.

Haters, please explain yourselves?
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 04:25:18 AM »

A good idea when addressing criticisms of Hillary Clinton is to ask yourself "Could I use this same defense of Hillary word for word to dismiss criticisms of Margaret Thatcher?" and if the answer is yes, delete your post and start over.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 05:30:10 AM »

A good idea when addressing criticisms of Hillary Clinton is to ask yourself "Could I use this same defense of Hillary word for word to dismiss criticisms of Margaret Thatcher?" and if the answer is yes, delete your post and start over.
Ehh...the problem with Thatcher was her politics, not her competence.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 05:38:30 AM »

A good idea when addressing criticisms of Hillary Clinton is to ask yourself "Could I use this same defense of Hillary word for word to dismiss criticisms of Margaret Thatcher?" and if the answer is yes, delete your post and start over.
Ehh...the problem with Thatcher was her politics, not her competence.

The analogy really does make it sound like his issue is with women in power. Tongue
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 08:13:10 AM »

She's hated by both sides
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Koharu
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 08:20:15 AM »

Because she's a woman. It really is that simple.

If you try to get people to explain why they don't like her, a lot of it boils down to her being bossy or not showing enough emotion, which are ways we try to keep women in the kitchen. Other than that, people often can't come up with a reason. "I just don't!" Hence, "but her emails!"

Women are not immune from reacting this way. I, especially when younger, felt the same way about her. But when I actually listened to her and paid attention to her policy ideas, I found someone who is compassionate and loving, though maybe a bit brash. But in a man we'd excuse the brashness, or even welcome it.

So, yeah. I don't like the hate she gets, and I wish many folks would actually listen to her (she's more right-wing than I am, especially in regards to war; I think a lot of the Never Trump Republicans would have voted for her if they had been given a list of policies to vote on without a name attached), as they'd find someone who is quite often what we claim to want in politics. She's not perfect, by any means, and is certainly part of the political machine, but I think when it comes to a president, that's a much more effective option. That said, I do "understand" the hate she gets because it's baked into our culture. It sucks. She doesn't deserve it.
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Daniel909012
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 08:33:58 AM »

Hypocrisy, voted for the wall of her husband and mockery of women raped by her husband.

She called deplorable those who gave victory to her husband.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 08:43:44 AM »

Hypocrisy, voted for the wall of her husband and mockery of women raped by her husband.

She called deplorable those who gave victory to her husband.

Love the "hypocrisy" line as then you all stand shoulder to shoulder with Trump/Fox News as they actually rape women.
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 08:50:22 AM »

Maybe it's because she speaks so condescendingly, attempted to hide an email scandal, lost a very winnable race, is still dividing the Democratic Party, etc.

It's not because she's a woman. It's because of who she is as a person.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 08:53:03 AM »

Did you lefties ask this question during the 2008 primary, when your messiah was trouncing her - with words and votes?
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 09:32:48 AM »

She is an enemy of the Bill of Rights.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 09:48:44 AM »

Did you lefties ask this question during the 2008 primary, when your messiah was trouncing her - with words and votes?
For the record, I also supported her in 2008.

I think, if the hatred of her was even vaguely rational, then it makes no sense that in 2010-2013 she was probably the most popular politician in the country - at leasy amongst those with universal or near-universal name recognition. And she was exactly the same person back then.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 10:16:06 AM »

Everything the Clintons ever did was about furthering their own political career. There was never a political principle they didn't meet that wasn't negotiable to further their ambitions. In the 90s, Hillary was talking with a Southern Accent claiming to be a moderate, in 2008 she was slamming Obama saying he couldnt understand white voters like she can while coddling up to John McCain, in 2016 she's talking in her regular voice claiming to be a progressive. The Clinton's remade the Democratic Party to serve themselves yet she still managed to lose in 2008 and again in 2016 despite having the entire media/donor/party machine complex behind her. I mean losing to  Donald Trump is the equivalent to Usain Bolt losing the 500m dash in the special Olympics to a guy in crutches.

Whenever you hear Hillary peddling this whole ''Bernie isn't a Democrat thing,'' what they really mean is anyone who wants to run in the Democratic Party has to bend the knee to the Clinton's and do what they tell you (how else did Hillary end up SoS?). It's a big club and commoners arent allowed at the table.
could be the worst post ever.
Pragmatism is ok unless women are pragmatic.
Ambition is ok unless women are ambitious.
Democratic party conspiracy is such bullsh**t.
Trump sucked so bad he trounced 16 republicans and beat the nominee who beat Bernie too. He's an awful person and using conventional standards not a good candidate, but his fans like that about him. And between Comey, the e-mails, the press and the Russians, Clinton winning by 2% wasn't actually that bad.

Agree with premise of OP, by the way. She is only disliked because of her x chromosomes.
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 10:19:14 AM »

Because she is a woman. What people don't like to admit about the interview is that she is alert, informed, and most of all presidential.
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JA
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 10:20:22 AM »

Maybe it's because she speaks so condescendingly, attempted to hide an email scandal, lost a very winnable race, is still dividing the Democratic Party, etc.

It's not because she's a woman. It's because of who she is as a person.

Basically this. Anyone who falls back onto the tired old "you hate her because she's a woman" schtick is pretty pathetic. Sure, there are likely many people who dislike her because of her gender; that seems to be a particular problem with liberal female politicians. But there are plenty of reasons for people, left and right, to dislike her aside from that. Personally, I never trusted her, I didn't think she'd do half the things she promised, she always seemed rather condescending, and she seemed far too dependent on all those technocratic techniques of trying to win an election. Her voting history was uninspiring, her picking Kaine was disappointing, the entire premise of her campaign was despiriting, and the fact that she continues to relitigate her failed campaign and blame her failures, at least in part, on her Democratic rival who was far too kind to her, shows what a sorry loser she is too.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 10:22:52 AM »

Maybe it's because she speaks so condescendingly, attempted to hide an email scandal, lost a very winnable race, is still dividing the Democratic Party, etc.

It's not because she's a woman. It's because of who she is as a person.

Basically this. Anyone who falls back onto the tired old "you hate her because she's a woman" schtick is pretty pathetic. Sure, there are likely many people who dislike her because of her gender; that seems to be a particular problem with liberal female politicians. But there are plenty of reasons for people, left and right, to dislike her aside from that. Personally, I never trusted her, I didn't think she'd do half the things she promised, she always seemed rather condescending, and she seemed far too dependent on all those technocratic techniques of trying to win an election. Her voting history was uninspiring, her picking Kaine was disappointing, the entire premise of her campaign was despiriting, and the fact that she continues to relitigate her failed campaign and blame her failures, at least in part, on her Democratic rival who was far too kind to her, shows what a sorry loser she is too.
hilarious post!!! love it
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 10:25:43 AM »

Because she's a horrible person?
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Santander
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2017, 10:31:45 AM »

Everything the Clintons ever did was about furthering their own political career. There was never a political principle they didn't meet that wasn't negotiable to further their ambitions. In the 90s, Hillary was talking with a Southern Accent claiming to be a moderate, in 2008 she was slamming Obama saying he couldnt understand white voters like she can while coddling up to John McCain, in 2016 she's talking in her regular voice claiming to be a progressive. The Clinton's remade the Democratic Party to serve themselves yet she still managed to lose in 2008 and again in 2016 despite having the entire media/donor/party machine complex behind her. I mean losing to  Donald Trump is the equivalent to Usain Bolt losing the 500m dash in the special Olympics to a guy in crutches.

Whenever you hear Hillary peddling this whole ''Bernie isn't a Democrat thing,'' what they really mean is anyone who wants to run in the Democratic Party has to bend the knee to the Clinton's and do what they tell you (how else did Hillary end up SoS?). It's a big club and commoners arent allowed at the table.
could be the worst post ever.

No, it's a 100% accurate post.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 10:32:27 AM »


It's pretty hilarious to watch people call Trump a 'con artist' and then get so easily duped by this facade.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 10:44:11 AM »

Everything the Clintons ever did was about furthering their own political career. There was never a political principle they didn't meet that wasn't negotiable to further their ambitions. In the 90s, Hillary was talking with a Southern Accent claiming to be a moderate, in 2008 she was slamming Obama saying he couldnt understand white voters like she can while coddling up to John McCain, in 2016 she's talking in her regular voice claiming to be a progressive. The Clinton's remade the Democratic Party to serve themselves yet she still managed to lose in 2008 and again in 2016 despite having the entire media/donor/party machine complex behind her. I mean losing to  Donald Trump is the equivalent to Usain Bolt losing the 500m dash in the special Olympics to a guy in crutches.

Whenever you hear Hillary peddling this whole ''Bernie isn't a Democrat thing,'' what they really mean is anyone who wants to run in the Democratic Party has to bend the knee to the Clinton's and do what they tell you (how else did Hillary end up SoS?). It's a big club and commoners arent allowed at the table.
could be the worst post ever.

No, it's a 100% accurate post.

Which is why I put it in the Sam Spade GPG.
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Beet
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2017, 10:44:37 AM »

No one is saying that Hillary is a great political genius or ran a wonderful campaign - although she did get further than any other woman in history, may well get further than any woman in her generation (older boomers born 1946-55) ever will, which is saying a lot. It's the the vitriolic reaction to her that is so over-the-top that it has exposed what a misogynistic society we live in, and that's why Hillary is a hero for exposing it, and that's why we need more Hillarys.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2017, 10:45:21 AM »

No one is saying that Hillary is a great political genius or ran a wonderful campaign - although she did get further than any other woman in history, may well get further than any woman in her generation (older boomers born 1946-55) ever will, which is saying something. It's the the vitriolic reaction to her that is so over-the-top that it has exposed what a misogynistic society we live in, and that's why Hillary is a hero for exposing it, and that's why we need more Hillarys.

We might need more women running, but anything but more Hillarys
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Beet
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« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2017, 10:46:38 AM »

No one is saying that Hillary is a great political genius or ran a wonderful campaign - although she did get further than any other woman in history, may well get further than any woman in her generation (older boomers born 1946-55) ever will, which is saying something. It's the the vitriolic reaction to her that is so over-the-top that it has exposed what a misogynistic society we live in, and that's why Hillary is a hero for exposing it, and that's why we need more Hillarys.

We might need more women running, but anything but more Hillarys

No, we need more Hillary's until the rage she inspires is drawn out root and branch, and ground into dust.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2017, 10:47:25 AM »

No one is saying that Hillary is a great political genius or ran a wonderful campaign - although she did get further than any other woman in history, may well get further than any woman in her generation (older boomers born 1946-55) ever will, which is saying something. It's the the vitriolic reaction to her that is so over-the-top that it has exposed what a misogynistic society we live in, and that's why Hillary is a hero for exposing it, and that's why we need more Hillarys.

We might need more women running, but anything but more Hillarys

No, we need more Hillary's until the rage she inspires is drawn out root and branch, and ground into dust.

That's never happened with hate in the history of the world.  It just festers and gets worse.
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Beet
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« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 10:50:32 AM »

No one is saying that Hillary is a great political genius or ran a wonderful campaign - although she did get further than any other woman in history, may well get further than any woman in her generation (older boomers born 1946-55) ever will, which is saying something. It's the the vitriolic reaction to her that is so over-the-top that it has exposed what a misogynistic society we live in, and that's why Hillary is a hero for exposing it, and that's why we need more Hillarys.

We might need more women running, but anything but more Hillarys

No, we need more Hillary's until the rage she inspires is drawn out root and branch, and ground into dust.

That's never happened with hate in the history of the world.  It just festers and gets worse.

Hate has been defeated. When the first women's conventions were held in the 1850s, men literally rioted at the prospect of a woman speaking in public. It's all about socialization.
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