Senate proposes massive military spending & passes a 700 B Defense budget

[BlueSwan]

Shameful that almost all democrats voted for this nonsense.

[JA]

Back to the subject: this spending increase alone would be enough to make college tuition free.

And now the people who pushed for this will be the same ones who say we can't afford it.

Oh and FYI, if single-payer is Communist by the US standards, then either you have no idea what it is, or don't understand basic political ideology.

Yeah, they complain about that switching to a different healthcare system is too expensive when we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world, but they never complain about massive military spending that doesn't help people.

Many Americans and most of our elected officials believe spending money on killing their fellow man is more important than spending it on helping their fellow man.

[JA]

Shameful that almost all democrats voted for this nonsense.

Shameful, but unsurprising. A bloated military budget is beloved by the financial interests that dominate both political parties, so they vote accordingly.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Shameful that almost all democrats voted for this nonsense.

Shameful, but unsurprising. A bloated military budget is beloved by the financial interests that dominate both political parties, so they vote accordingly.

The strategy of military suppliers is to ensure they manufacture in as many states as possible to ensure all senators can be tarred with the label of job killers if they vote against it which is why union backed dems like Brown support military expansion.

There does seem to be an ominous military build up going on internationally in most of the major and middle powers.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

Actually having a useful military is useful, dontcha know.

[SoLongAtlas]

Less expensive than single payer

Fake news.

Go away to Canada if you want to be a communist. Our bad ass military protects you so you can have your dumb healthcare system and drive cars with three wheels.

Reported.

Back on topic, the MGT Act was included in the bill, which is great for modernizing federal IT infrastructure (badly needed). https://federalnewsradio.com/legislation/2017/09/in-the-end-senate-lets-the-mgt-act-in-the-defense-bill/

Also $700B is doable but would favor another round of BRAC to further consolidate. A lot of this has to do with our airframes being decades old and in desperate need of replacement. On my last deployment, I can't tell you how many times our air guys were scrambling for parts and/or had to have them ordered from the US and shipped to the area where we were operating in the Gulf of Aden. Also, spending for cyber modernization would be in that 700B which is needed and a clear threat.

Re the Space Corps, it is unnecessary and only duplicates what the AF Space Command and to a certain extant, STRATCOM, already do, so I was glad to see that the Senate didn't include that in their markup.

Additionally, more funding for MD and GBI's in Alaska which were needed when dealing with threats from NK and to a lesser extant, a more re-assertive Russia. https://www.adn.com/politics/2017/09/18/defense-bill-passes-senate-with-provisions-for-alaska-missile-defense-icebreakers/ The Arctic in the next few decades is going to be a major geopolitical region between the US, Russia, and Canada in terms of military projection, bases, and as it relates to energy and oil/natural gas exploration.

[GoTfan]

Actually having a useful military is useful, dontcha know.

The US spends more on its military than the next 26 nations combined. You don't need an extra 700 billion for it, and supporting it means that you are in favour of raising taxes, because that 700 billion has to come from somewhere, doesn't it?

[MasterJedi]

Where's the fiscal responsibility? The military doesn't even know where half the money it gets goes now! Oh, you only care about that when it is social projects? I got it.

[SoLongAtlas]

Kaine's response on this and his markups http://augustafreepress.com/tim-kaine-passage-senate-defense-bill/

Glad to know that they need to spend money on a bathroom at the MCM (pork but maybe useful pork, I haven't been to the MCM in like 10 years).

[°Leprechaun]

If the US spent half this it would still be spending more than any other nation.

This vote is insanity. There is no doubt about that.

Both parties should be ashamed of themselves.

[GoTfan]

Where's the fiscal responsibility? The military doesn't even know where half the money it gets goes now! Oh, you only care about that when it is social projects? I got it.

Pretty much. When the money goes to things like infrastructure, it's useless pork. When it goes to things like this, it's the most essential thing ever and anyone who says we need to think twice is a traitor.

[GlobeSoc]

Where's the fiscal responsibility? The military doesn't even know where half the money it gets goes now! Oh, you only care about that when it is social projects? I got it.

Pretty much. When the money goes to things like infrastructure, it's useless pork. When it goes to things like this, it's the most essential thing ever and anyone who says we need to think twice is a traitor.

[°Leprechaun]

First this. Next tax cuts. <sarcasm> Makes a lot of sense, right?

[Dr. Arch]

Where's the fiscal responsibility? The military doesn't even know where half the money it gets goes now! Oh, you only care about that when it is social projects? I got it.

[°Leprechaun]

Clearly, anyone who is appalled at this or Trump's election knows that we are living in fantasyland and it can be explained by the last 500 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBg5c8Luybk

[publicunofficial]

This is more than twice the amount the GOP claims they would save by kicking millions of people off of health insurance.

If you honestly are ok with that, you are the cancer killing this nation.

[SoLongAtlas]

It is well within the historical norms for times of war, and even lower than the max. Given the sheer scope of geopolitical challenges, and the fact that we are entering into the great powers decades again in terms of IR, it is not asinine to suggest and approve more funding.



The main thing is that you have people that have never put on a uniform freaking out about this. Yes, there are changes in personnel and acquisition that MUST be made, but 700B is not that far of a stretch for modernizing the military and acquiring new air frames and systems that are decades old if not more. See Harrier, B-52, nuclear triad, submarine programs, USN ships, cyber programs both for mil and govt, GBIs and BMD, etc. It's not like defense is $1T at this point and I doubt it ever will be given the huge amounts of mandatory health and SS spending coming as the boomers retire and millennials have less kids to replace the tax base.

[°Leprechaun]

VirginiaModerate,

Not that it is relevant, but I was in the AF for four years.

Your argument is based on a false premise, that we need to spend that money, and we don't.

Your chart lists four wars, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. How many of those wars have we won?

The other problem with your argument is that we can't afford to spend more on the military.
How are we going to pay for it? Not with tax cuts.

[SoLongAtlas]

VirginiaModerate,

Not that it is relevant, but I was in the AF for four years.

Your argument is based on a false premise, that we need to spend that money, and we don't.

Your chart lists four wars, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. How many of those wars have we won?

The other problem with your argument is that we can't afford to spend more on the military.
How are we going to pay for it? Not with tax cuts.

I was USN. Glad to see another vet here on Atlas.

We do need to spend the money to modernize programs and stay competitive with Chinese and Russian advances. As for tax cuts, I am not big on tax cuts while spending more and the GOP is wrong on that. We do need to further consolidate and cut waste as rein in contractors.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

personally I feel the Triad is unneeded - the ICBM's have a huge amount of problems (mainly stemming from their inflexibility) and I'm not even convinced about the need for nuclear bombers (the only real benefit there seems to be in case the president wants to ramp up pressure by scrambling them) Keep enough SLBM's (yeah, I know they're the most expensive) for continuous deterrence and that's all you need imo.

The naval buildup I don't hugely understand in all honesty. Trump doesn't really seem to have any reason a 350 ship navy would be better than the current size, just that more ships are good so we should have more ships (yeah I know the pentagon came up with the number itself). Seems like just more to maintain in the future. (Not that the UK can talk, given the money we wasted on a keeping up with the Joneses aircraft carrier...) I mean, the big failures of the American military in recent years (Iraq and Afghanistan) were not down to lack of ships. It's a classic problem with the American military - a build-up with no strategic aim, just an open-ended panic to enforce the status quo.

[Kingpoleon]

Warren is once again a HP.

These mega-bills are destroying the budget. Come on - these massive spending boosts for the military while NASA gets cut and cut?

[ProgressiveCanadian]

I didn't even realize the vote was 89-9. What a ing disgrace the Democrats are.

[Kingpoleon]

I didn't even realize the vote was 89-9. What a ing disgrace the Democrats are.

What do you, Shadows, and jfern think of Ron Wyden? He's been pretty consistent in supporting UHC, civil liberties, abortion, guns, and SSM for quite a while. I know he's somewhat moderate on economics, but he seems to have developed several strange alliances - Bernie Sanders and Mike Lee voting together on this is hilarious IMO.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I didn't even realize the vote was 89-9. What a ing disgrace the Democrats are.

What do you, Shadows, and jfern think of Ron Wyden? He's been pretty consistent in supporting UHC, civil liberties, abortion, guns, and SSM for quite a while. I know he's somewhat moderate on economics, but he seems to have developed several strange alliances - Bernie Sanders and Mike Lee voting together on this is hilarious IMO.

He's one of the better senators on issues like the military industrial complex, but then is sh**tty on some economic issues, like voting for fast track. So while he's better overall than a lot of Democrats, he's still by far the worse Senator from Oregon.

[HisGrace]

The naval buildup I don't hugely understand in all honesty. Trump doesn't really seem to have any reason a 350 ship navy would be better than the current size, just that more ships are good so we should have more ships

BIGGER IS BETTER WE LOSE AT EVERYTHING BECAUSE OBAMA GUTTED THE NAVY!!!11!1!1!