Betsy DeVos officially scraps Obama-era guidelines for sexual assault.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Whether the standard of proof for sexual assault is preponderance of evidence, clear and convincing evidence, or evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, the bigger problem remains:

Campus staff constantly try to rush through sexual assault investigations instead of taking their time to investigate the case thoroughly.

[Virginiá]

I think at least part of the backlash here is because these changes are happening under a Republican administration, and notably one who has himself said on tape how much he loves sexual assault, followed by over a dozen accusers coming forward. But even without that, this kind of change is seen as a predictable move by a conservative admin. who has frequently shown themselves indifferent to such things, and even sometimes hostile.

I don't think that necessarily means the changes will be bad, though. Maybe, maybe not. The way these matters are investigated/hashed out definitely needs to be reformed, though.

[Santander]

I think at least part of the backlash here is because these changes are happening under a Republican administration, and notably one who has himself said on tape how much he loves sexual assault, followed by over a dozen accusers coming forward.

[citation needed]

[Virginiá]

[citation needed]

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Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

[Santander]

[citation needed]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

It was just locker room talk. It's not his fault Billy Bush is terrible at small talk. Access Hollywood actually made me support Trump more because of its hilarity. Also, women love being taken furniture shopping.

[Virginiá]

It was just locker room talk. It's not his fault Billy Bush is terrible at small talk. Access Hollywood actually made me support Trump more because of its hilarity. Also, women love being taken furniture shopping.

blah blah blah contrarian sentences blah blah edgy stuff blah blah troll comments that blah blah blah blah furniture blah blah

ftfy

[dead0man]

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Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

I hate Trump as much as anybody, but he wasn't talking about regular women with this line, he was talking about gold diggers.  Gold diggers don't care where you grab them.

I can't speak to the other accusations, he certainly seems like the type, but that line got WAY too much play....way more than the aggrieved women got.  Which seems backwards to me.

[Alabama_Indy10]

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Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

I hate Trump as much as anybody, but he wasn't talking about regular women with this line, he was talking about gold diggers.  Gold diggers don't care where you grab them.

I can't speak to the other accusations, he certainly seems like the type, but that line got WAY too much play....way more than the aggrieved women got.  Which seems backwards to me.

Indeed

[Beet]

[citation needed]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

It was just locker room talk. It's not his fault Billy Bush is terrible at small talk. Access Hollywood actually made me support Trump more because of its hilarity. Also, women love being taken furniture shopping.

Labelling something "locker room talk" doesn't change what it is. I've been in plenty of locker rooms and never heard that kind of talk. The ironic thing is, if it was some Muslim Sheikh saying this the right wingers would be all over it claiming Islam is anti-woman. But if it's a US president it's okay.

[Alabama_Indy10]

[citation needed]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

It was just locker room talk. It's not his fault Billy Bush is terrible at small talk. Access Hollywood actually made me support Trump more because of its hilarity. Also, women love being taken furniture shopping.

Labelling something "locker room talk" doesn't change what it is. I've been in plenty of locker rooms and never heard that kind of talk. The ironic thing is, if it was some Muslim Sheikh saying this the right wingers would be all over it claiming Islam is anti-woman. But if it's a US president it's okay.

Uhh.. what sport was being played at this "locker room" you were at? Because I played baseball and football in high school and this stuff is tame compared to what we always heard and said

[Doimper]

hey guys, my name is santander and i seek validation on an obscure internet forum by deliberately posting contrarian and dumb things. please pay attention to me

[Jeffster]

PiitsburghSteel, please educate yourself on this issue

Lowering evidentiary standards to get a guilty verdict is crazy.

there was more than one case where the male got expelled after getting sexually assaulted

I do not find this surprising but I would like a source.

The Amherst case would be one of them. Guy gets black out drunk, and the woman gives him oral sex, but he is accused of rape and kicked out:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2017/04/09/wrongfully-expelled-student-hauls-elite-college-into-court/#4199e3331929

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Santander is not being a contrarian in anyway. I was shocked and horrified by the media's allegations and was depressed for a solid week that the heroic man was not who I thought he was. And then I watched the video. And I immediately loved him for everything he said in it. I fell in love all over again. It was perfect, hilarious and so him, and so me. This moment was the origin of Fake News when I discovered that the media could not be trusted to accurately report the truth as they were all total hypocrites.

[Beet]

[citation needed]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Doesn't really matter if Trump thinks grabbing whatever woman he wants, whenever he wants, is perfectly fine & legal. It's still assault even when the person is too dumb and/or deranged to see it. This is compounded by the numerous women that stepped forward and confirmed that behavior (even if some of them exaggerated or lied, it is doubtful all of them did, particularly with Trump himself boasting of such behavior - you'd expect there would be some aggrieved women out there)

It was just locker room talk. It's not his fault Billy Bush is terrible at small talk. Access Hollywood actually made me support Trump more because of its hilarity. Also, women love being taken furniture shopping.

Labelling something "locker room talk" doesn't change what it is. I've been in plenty of locker rooms and never heard that kind of talk. The ironic thing is, if it was some Muslim Sheikh saying this the right wingers would be all over it claiming Islam is anti-woman. But if it's a US president it's okay.

Uhh.. what sport was being played at this "locker room" you were at? Because I played baseball and football in high school and this stuff is tame compared to what we always heard and said

Regardless, it's unacceptable.

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Terrible. Nobody gives up their right not to be sexually assaulted.

[Cactus Jack]

Government-sponsored sociopathy.

[HisGrace]

Woah, look at that, Trump Admin. did one good thing. He just just quit while he's ahead and resign.

Sad to see so many people on here who like to victim blame.

I really don't see how wanting a "clear and convincing" standard of proof (which I assume is still less than "beyond a reasonable doubt) before you ruin someone's life (as opposed to doing it on a 50.1 percent chance, essentially a coin flip) constitutes blaming the alleged victim for anything.

Some of the critical responses to this aren't any different from the "Oh you must love terrorists" type responses you got from Neo-Cons to defend the Bush Administration's violations of due process.

"clear and convincing" is 75% chance, and is a fair standard. "beyond a reasonable doubt" is (basically) >99%.

I would say that going the full "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard would be inappropriate/unnecessary in this instance since there isn't jail-time/registering as a sex offender involved (although why you're expelled from college will come up whenever you try to apply for a job or do anything). 75% is about right.

I think at least part of the backlash here is because these changes are happening under a Republican administration, and notably one who has himself said on tape how much he loves sexual assault, followed by over a dozen accusers coming forward. But even without that, this kind of change is seen as a predictable move by a conservative admin. who has frequently shown themselves indifferent to such things, and even sometimes hostile.

I don't think that necessarily means the changes will be bad, though. Maybe, maybe not. The way these matters are investigated/hashed out definitely needs to be reformed, though.

It's established that Trump is a POS but even I'm going not going to knee-jerk disagree with everything his administration does as a result of that and I'm as big a Trump hater as anyone.

[dead0man]

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Terrible. Nobody gives up their right not to be sexually assaulted.

It's not sexual assault if you want it to happen.

[Cashew]

Good. The previous system was a disgrace.

[Santander]

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Terrible. Nobody gives up their right not to be sexually assaulted.

It's not sexual assault if you want it to happen.

Those damn women never assault you, eh, old man?

[dead0man]

Just one of them.

[Cory]

Nope. Sorry. I have no empathy for the accused, mainly because only 3% of sexual assault accusations are false. Brock Turner salutes you.

Citation needed.

[dead0man]

Nope. Sorry. I have no empathy for the accused, mainly because only 3% of sexual assault accusations are false. Brock Turner salutes you.

Citation needed.

It's one of those numbers that is pretty much impossible to get accurate.  3% is clearly at the very bottom of the likely range.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

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Terrible. Nobody gives up their right not to be sexually assaulted.

It's not sexual assault if you want it to happen.

Wow.  That's some Famous Mortimer-level victim blaming.

[SamTilden2020]

Campus staff constantly try to rush through sexual assault investigations instead of taking their time to investigate the case thoroughly.

I'd say society's most vulnerable are those denied due process.

My thoughts TBH. SA is a very vicious, disgusting, and in no way supportable wrong, but no crime permits for a lack of due process.

On the 3% are false thing, that's 3% of people's lives being obliterated for something they didn't do, thanks to a system which has the ability (and does sometimes) gets these things wrong.

75% evidence seems best.

Again, not condoning SA, or anyone who commits it, nor blaming those victimized by one's committing of this.

[dead0man]

Jerry Brown vetoes Cali law trying to copy the old, unfair Obama era rules

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good for him