Opinion of Emmanuel Macron

[mvd10]

Yuge FF. I've become a fan .

[America Needs R'hllor]

Solid FF.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Massive HP.

[Cactus Jack]

To be decided. He's orders of magnitude better than Le Pen, at least.

[Lachi]

Mixed.

[TheSaint250]

I liked Le Pen more than him but didn’t mind him after the election. His ego now is...unique...to say the least. I’ll say very very very slight tilt FF.

[The Govanah Jake]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

[Tender Branson]

A snobby, elitist, workingclass-insulting moron - who should be stripped of his generous salary and work on his planned reforms with the salary of an average worker (who work more than he does). Plus, he should stop being such a condescending ass*ole.

Yet he's probably still better than Le Pen.

[The Govanah Jake]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

[mvd10]

A snobby, elitist, workingclass-insulting moron - who should be stripped of his generous salary and work on his planned reforms with the salary of an average worker (who work more than he does). Plus, he should stop being such a condescending ass*ole.

Yet he's probably still better than Le Pen.

Isn't Macron really rich anyway? He was a high-ranking investment banker at Rothschild so he's probably worth several millions (even with French taxes lol). It's hilarious how French banks often hire civil servants/ENA graduates who don't know anything about finance but have amazing connections (this was the reason Rothschild hired Macron, apparently he didn't even know some basic things even I learned in high school).

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The French version of Trump?

[mvd10]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

[Phony Moderate]

Potentially the Roger Douglas of France.

[The Govanah Jake]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

Did i say that. I said she held Left Wing economics at least for American Progressives while Fascism displays a completely ideology of state control of industry and commerce which is Statism.

From the Independent:

"Economically, Le Pen promises to reverse globalisation and shield domestic industries from competition to benefit French workers. She promises increased welfare spending and a lower retirement age. Her ‘France First’ foreign policy is based on increasing defense spending, reducing immigration and restoring national identity. She is unequivocally anti-EU and opposes the single currency.

Le Pen’s economic policies are close to that of the centre left. In a contest against Fillon, who advocates cutting 500,000 civil-service jobs, reducing government services, labour market de-regulation, a higher retirement age and longer working hours, traditional socialist voters may support the Front National. In a contest against Macron, En Marche’s policy of tax cuts and labour-market reforms may assist Le Pen. Fillon and Macron’s support of globalisation, the EU, greater European economic integration and immigration increases Le Pen’s appeal to French nationalists from both the right and left of the political spectrum."

She is economically a a populist center-left winger and if not then these policy's sure do sound like it. In fact she was arguable more to the Left on economics then Macron ever was.

I never said Macron was "some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net". I neither said he was a Libertarian nor said he would destroy every single safety net. I dislike his economics because
(First Quote are from the BBC)

1. Pro Business - While Francois Hollande initially tried to please the socialist elements of his party by being tough on companies, Mr Macron as economy minister oversaw a change in direction over the past three years, heralding a more pro-business approach.
That included about 40bn euros ($44bn; £33.9bn) in tax breaks to try to invigorate the economy, a benefit Mr Macron plans to make permanent.
He also says corporation tax will gradually reduce from 33% to 25%.
And a new wealth tax, aimed at the rich, will not apply to financial investments.

2. Tax Policy - He is a standard Neo-liberal centrist who is just putting a anti-establishment and somewhat more liberal mask over it(Forbes)

The goal of Macron’s tax program is to stimulate the economy. French unemployment remains above 10%, far higher than Germany (4%) and the United Kingdom (5%). But he wants to do that while protecting the size of the French public sector, an important difference between his government and the Republicans. He called for €50 billion more in infrastructure spending over the next five years. He would offset that with €60 billion in cuts, but almost all of those projected cuts are in unemployment benefits – which would only be realized if Macron’s policies resulted in higher employment. Socialism has changed in France (and the party with that name has been all but wiped out in the legislature). Hollande ran against Sarkozy and won on a leftist platform that proved unrealistic once he took office and confronted economic reality. For the last three years, Macron has been at the head of the Socialist government’s efforts to improve business conditions. His platform as president is basically a mirror of his proposals when he was in government.

Macron claims to be a revolutionary, but those hoping for a marked change from the Hollande government are likely to be disappointed.

3. Yes like you said the Labor Code and Regulation. No Quote here, he wants to reform the French Labour Code and make it more "flexible" too make it more in line with the rest of Europe which in my opinion is a bad idea. Also this is not on topic but on the second part of that idea of your's of him bringing down the social spending to European levels, i could support him lowering the social spending level but not to unsustainable levels, and a third of the economy on welfare is a little to much.

And then there are others. These are the main points i dont like his economics and if you want a short version of that it is because he is a economic Neo-Liberal. And these doesn't even come to the fact of the other problems with him like for example he was a Rothschild Banker.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Thatcherite Union Buster. Massive HP.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

They call anyone they don’t agree with fascists

[parochial boy]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

Did i say that. I said she held Left Wing economics at least for American Progressives while Fascism displays a completely ideology of state control of industry and commerce which is Statism.

From the Independent:

"Economically, Le Pen promises to reverse globalisation and shield domestic industries from competition to benefit French workers. She promises increased welfare spending and a lower retirement age. Her ‘France First’ foreign policy is based on increasing defense spending, reducing immigration and restoring national identity. She is unequivocally anti-EU and opposes the single currency.

Le Pen’s economic policies are close to that of the centre left. In a contest against Fillon, who advocates cutting 500,000 civil-service jobs, reducing government services, labour market de-regulation, a higher retirement age and longer working hours, traditional socialist voters may support the Front National. In a contest against Macron, En Marche’s policy of tax cuts and labour-market reforms may assist Le Pen. Fillon and Macron’s support of globalisation, the EU, greater European economic integration and immigration increases Le Pen’s appeal to French nationalists from both the right and left of the political spectrum."

She is economically a a populist center-left winger and if not then these policy's sure do sound like it. In fact she was arguable more to the Left on economics then Macron ever was.

I never said Macron was "some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net". I neither said he was a Libertarian nor said he would destroy every single safety net. I dislike his economics because
(First Quote are from the BBC)

1. Pro Business - While Francois Hollande initially tried to please the socialist elements of his party by being tough on companies, Mr Macron as economy minister oversaw a change in direction over the past three years, heralding a more pro-business approach.
That included about 40bn euros ($44bn; £33.9bn) in tax breaks to try to invigorate the economy, a benefit Mr Macron plans to make permanent.
He also says corporation tax will gradually reduce from 33% to 25%.
And a new wealth tax, aimed at the rich, will not apply to financial investments.

2. Tax Policy - He is a standard Neo-liberal centrist who is just putting a anti-establishment and somewhat more liberal mask over it(Forbes)

The goal of Macron’s tax program is to stimulate the economy. French unemployment remains above 10%, far higher than Germany (4%) and the United Kingdom (5%). But he wants to do that while protecting the size of the French public sector, an important difference between his government and the Republicans. He called for €50 billion more in infrastructure spending over the next five years. He would offset that with €60 billion in cuts, but almost all of those projected cuts are in unemployment benefits – which would only be realized if Macron’s policies resulted in higher employment. Socialism has changed in France (and the party with that name has been all but wiped out in the legislature). Hollande ran against Sarkozy and won on a leftist platform that proved unrealistic once he took office and confronted economic reality. For the last three years, Macron has been at the head of the Socialist government’s efforts to improve business conditions. His platform as president is basically a mirror of his proposals when he was in government.

Macron claims to be a revolutionary, but those hoping for a marked change from the Hollande government are likely to be disappointed.

3. Yes like you said the Labor Code and Regulation. No Quote here, he wants to reform the French Labour Code and make it more "flexible" too make it more in line with the rest of Europe which in my opinion is a bad idea. Also this is not on topic but on the second part of that idea of your's of him bringing down the social spending to European levels, i could support him lowering the social spending level but not to unsustainable levels, and a third of the economy on welfare is a little to much.

And then there are others. These are the main points i dont like his economics and if you want a short version of that it is because he is a economic Neo-Liberal. And these doesn't even come to the fact of the other problems with him like for example he was a Rothschild Banker.

Please learn about European politics. I dislike Macron very strongly; but "Le Pen is a left winger" is completely ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge of the continent.

[The Govanah Jake]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

Did i say that. I said she held Left Wing economics at least for American Progressives while Fascism displays a completely ideology of state control of industry and commerce which is Statism.

From the Independent:

"Economically, Le Pen promises to reverse globalisation and shield domestic industries from competition to benefit French workers. She promises increased welfare spending and a lower retirement age. Her ‘France First’ foreign policy is based on increasing defense spending, reducing immigration and restoring national identity. She is unequivocally anti-EU and opposes the single currency.

Le Pen’s economic policies are close to that of the centre left. In a contest against Fillon, who advocates cutting 500,000 civil-service jobs, reducing government services, labour market de-regulation, a higher retirement age and longer working hours, traditional socialist voters may support the Front National. In a contest against Macron, En Marche’s policy of tax cuts and labour-market reforms may assist Le Pen. Fillon and Macron’s support of globalisation, the EU, greater European economic integration and immigration increases Le Pen’s appeal to French nationalists from both the right and left of the political spectrum."

She is economically a a populist center-left winger and if not then these policy's sure do sound like it. In fact she was arguable more to the Left on economics then Macron ever was.

I never said Macron was "some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net". I neither said he was a Libertarian nor said he would destroy every single safety net. I dislike his economics because
(First Quote are from the BBC)

1. Pro Business - While Francois Hollande initially tried to please the socialist elements of his party by being tough on companies, Mr Macron as economy minister oversaw a change in direction over the past three years, heralding a more pro-business approach.
That included about 40bn euros ($44bn; £33.9bn) in tax breaks to try to invigorate the economy, a benefit Mr Macron plans to make permanent.
He also says corporation tax will gradually reduce from 33% to 25%.
And a new wealth tax, aimed at the rich, will not apply to financial investments.

2. Tax Policy - He is a standard Neo-liberal centrist who is just putting a anti-establishment and somewhat more liberal mask over it(Forbes)

The goal of Macron’s tax program is to stimulate the economy. French unemployment remains above 10%, far higher than Germany (4%) and the United Kingdom (5%). But he wants to do that while protecting the size of the French public sector, an important difference between his government and the Republicans. He called for €50 billion more in infrastructure spending over the next five years. He would offset that with €60 billion in cuts, but almost all of those projected cuts are in unemployment benefits – which would only be realized if Macron’s policies resulted in higher employment. Socialism has changed in France (and the party with that name has been all but wiped out in the legislature). Hollande ran against Sarkozy and won on a leftist platform that proved unrealistic once he took office and confronted economic reality. For the last three years, Macron has been at the head of the Socialist government’s efforts to improve business conditions. His platform as president is basically a mirror of his proposals when he was in government.

Macron claims to be a revolutionary, but those hoping for a marked change from the Hollande government are likely to be disappointed.

3. Yes like you said the Labor Code and Regulation. No Quote here, he wants to reform the French Labour Code and make it more "flexible" too make it more in line with the rest of Europe which in my opinion is a bad idea. Also this is not on topic but on the second part of that idea of your's of him bringing down the social spending to European levels, i could support him lowering the social spending level but not to unsustainable levels, and a third of the economy on welfare is a little to much.

And then there are others. These are the main points i dont like his economics and if you want a short version of that it is because he is a economic Neo-Liberal. And these doesn't even come to the fact of the other problems with him like for example he was a Rothschild Banker.

Please learn about European politics. I dislike Macron very strongly; but "Le Pen is a left winger" is completely ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge of the continent.

I never said she was a left winger fully. I said she was a economic left winger and at least economically left wing to the average American. I want post the policy's again since there above your post. But if you have knowledge of right wing economics which she holds I would like to know. And if you want to create a straw man saying I don't know European Politics then I could just as well be saying that you have no right to be talking about American or Non-European Politics because you are a) not from that continent or b) don't know about non-European politics.

[Lechasseur]

Massive HP

[parochial boy]

I never said she was a left winger fully. I said she was a economic left winger and at least economically left wing to the average American. I want post the policy's again since there above your post. But if you have knowledge of right wing economics which she holds I would like to know. And if you want to create a straw man saying I don't know European Politics then I could just as well be saying that you have no right to be talking about American or Non-European Politics because you are a) not from that continent or b) don't know about non-European politics.

Dude, you were saying Le Pen should have won on the basis that Macron was too much of an economic liberal. Take a moment to look into the history of the FN, and the faction that is currently on the rise now that Philippot is gone to understand why the FN are absolute anathema to the European left.

My point wasn't you are ignorant because you are American, there are plenty of Americans who know a lot about European history and politics; it was because you were trying to defend Le Pen from a left wing perspective.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

Did i say that. I said she held Left Wing economics at least for American Progressives while Fascism displays a completely ideology of state control of industry and commerce which is Statism.

From the Independent:

"Economically, Le Pen promises to reverse globalisation and shield domestic industries from competition to benefit French workers. She promises increased welfare spending and a lower retirement age. Her ‘France First’ foreign policy is based on increasing defense spending, reducing immigration and restoring national identity. She is unequivocally anti-EU and opposes the single currency.

Le Pen’s economic policies are close to that of the centre left. In a contest against Fillon, who advocates cutting 500,000 civil-service jobs, reducing government services, labour market de-regulation, a higher retirement age and longer working hours, traditional socialist voters may support the Front National. In a contest against Macron, En Marche’s policy of tax cuts and labour-market reforms may assist Le Pen. Fillon and Macron’s support of globalisation, the EU, greater European economic integration and immigration increases Le Pen’s appeal to French nationalists from both the right and left of the political spectrum."

She is economically a a populist center-left winger and if not then these policy's sure do sound like it. In fact she was arguable more to the Left on economics then Macron ever was.

I never said Macron was "some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net". I neither said he was a Libertarian nor said he would destroy every single safety net. I dislike his economics because
(First Quote are from the BBC)

1. Pro Business - While Francois Hollande initially tried to please the socialist elements of his party by being tough on companies, Mr Macron as economy minister oversaw a change in direction over the past three years, heralding a more pro-business approach.
That included about 40bn euros ($44bn; £33.9bn) in tax breaks to try to invigorate the economy, a benefit Mr Macron plans to make permanent.
He also says corporation tax will gradually reduce from 33% to 25%.
And a new wealth tax, aimed at the rich, will not apply to financial investments.

2. Tax Policy - He is a standard Neo-liberal centrist who is just putting a anti-establishment and somewhat more liberal mask over it(Forbes)

The goal of Macron’s tax program is to stimulate the economy. French unemployment remains above 10%, far higher than Germany (4%) and the United Kingdom (5%). But he wants to do that while protecting the size of the French public sector, an important difference between his government and the Republicans. He called for €50 billion more in infrastructure spending over the next five years. He would offset that with €60 billion in cuts, but almost all of those projected cuts are in unemployment benefits – which would only be realized if Macron’s policies resulted in higher employment. Socialism has changed in France (and the party with that name has been all but wiped out in the legislature). Hollande ran against Sarkozy and won on a leftist platform that proved unrealistic once he took office and confronted economic reality. For the last three years, Macron has been at the head of the Socialist government’s efforts to improve business conditions. His platform as president is basically a mirror of his proposals when he was in government.

Macron claims to be a revolutionary, but those hoping for a marked change from the Hollande government are likely to be disappointed.

3. Yes like you said the Labor Code and Regulation. No Quote here, he wants to reform the French Labour Code and make it more "flexible" too make it more in line with the rest of Europe which in my opinion is a bad idea. Also this is not on topic but on the second part of that idea of your's of him bringing down the social spending to European levels, i could support him lowering the social spending level but not to unsustainable levels, and a third of the economy on welfare is a little to much.

And then there are others. These are the main points i dont like his economics and if you want a short version of that it is because he is a economic Neo-Liberal. And these doesn't even come to the fact of the other problems with him like for example he was a Rothschild Banker.

Please learn about European politics. I dislike Macron very strongly; but "Le Pen is a left winger" is completely ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge of the continent.

I never said she was a left winger fully. I said she was a economic left winger and at least economically left wing to the average American. I want post the policy's again since there above your post. But if you have knowledge of right wing economics which she holds I would like to know. And if you want to create a straw man saying I don't know European Politics then I could just as well be saying that you have no right to be talking about American or Non-European Politics because you are a) not from that continent or b) don't know about non-European politics.

Bro, are you seriously defending Marine Le Pen?

[The Govanah Jake]

I never said she was a left winger fully. I said she was a economic left winger and at least economically left wing to the average American. I want post the policy's again since there above your post. But if you have knowledge of right wing economics which she holds I would like to know. And if you want to create a straw man saying I don't know European Politics then I could just as well be saying that you have no right to be talking about American or Non-European Politics because you are a) not from that continent or b) don't know about non-European politics.

Dude, you were saying Le Pen should have won on the basis that Macron was too much of an economic liberal. Take a moment to look into the history of the FN, and the faction that is currently on the rise now that Philippot is gone to understand why the FN are absolute anathema to the European left.

My point wasn't you are ignorant because you are American, there are plenty of Americans who know a lot about European history and politics; it was because you were trying to defend Le Pen from a left wing perspective.

Dude, you were saying Le Pen should have won on the basis that Macron was too much of an economic liberal.
- Yea that is what i was saying but not what you said. You think i said she was a Left Winger while i actually said that to the, at least, average american perceptive she is a Economic Left Winger. She may not be considered a Left Winger in France but that's not what i was talking about. Also i must say being on the Left Wing of something doesn't necessary mean you hold Left Wing Economics.

Take a moment to look into the history of the FN, and the faction that is currently on the rise now that Philippot is gone to understand why the FN are absolute anathema to the European left.
- I very much know the history of the FN, no need to look it up. Again you confused on what i said. When did i say that the FN was on the European Left. In the European sense, then no i don't believe the FN is part of the European Left at least on civil policy and foreign (in Europe) policy. In what i was actually talking about, in the definition of the word "Left Wing Economics", she is very much a left winger, or someone who supports Social Equality or Egalitarianism. Tell me if this sounds like what a Fiscal Conservative would say:

Under her leadership, Marine Le Pen has been more clear in her support for protectionism, while she has criticised globalism and capitalism for certain industries. She has been characterized as a proponent of letting the government take care of health, education, transportation, banking and energy.

My point wasn't you are ignorant because you are American, there are plenty of Americans who know a lot about European history and politics; it was because you were trying to defend Le Pen from a left wing perspective.

- Oh ok, that's a relief. I was thinking since you said "please learn about European Politics", you would be one of those people who think anyone who is not from that country is ignorant on its politics. And for the other statement in the bold i say i'm defending her at least on the Left because she gets too much hatred for things she is literally no, like a fascist for example. And i am saying, on the left, that she is not that far away economically (and probably socially to the American) from your average leftist and at least in the American (and probably European) sphere shouldn't be called a far right winger and if want to know why then search up what Far-Right Politics is or just go to its Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics) and see if that describes her very well. She still supports Social Equality and Social Egalitarianism and Social Programs and Government intervention in the economy and the Welfare state but is just using Populism and Nationalism instead of other methods used by the left wing including Class based.

[The Govanah Jake]

Tremendously HP. Le Pen should of won in 2017 and if not then somebody should definitely replace that menace in 2022.

Ah, progressives who support fascists. Beautiful.

"Fascist"
"is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce"

Okay then. Explain to me how Le Pen is a Fascist. I forgot the parts where she called for a forcible suppression of Opposition, called for control of industry and commerce, or called for or displayed dictatorial power. She may be a "radical to some" and a authoritarian to others and may definitely by a "Nationalist" by own admissions, I'm pretty sure she is still in favor of a Democratic system.


"Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties."

And here is the main goals of Fascism again where has she said that liberal democracy is obsolete (in fact quite the opposite here and wants to preserve liberal democracy from its demise), or that the National Front, if they win, will make France into a one party state ready for armed conflict. Even if they did, who would they be ready for armed conflict against? Also the modernization she has lead the party through has made this even more apparent. The party did indeed have some fascist elements under Le Pens father but he is gone and Marine Le Pen as liberalized the view of the party still keeping the nationalism, protectionism, and anti-mass immigration rhetoric but also making the party welcoming LGBT's into the party. And there Left Wing economics and Populism shouldn't be any surprises why some progressives support her.

Left-wing economics =/= statist economics. And Macron isn't some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net, he'll just bring France into the European mainstream with regards to labour regulation and social spending.

Did i say that. I said she held Left Wing economics at least for American Progressives while Fascism displays a completely ideology of state control of industry and commerce which is Statism.

From the Independent:

"Economically, Le Pen promises to reverse globalisation and shield domestic industries from competition to benefit French workers. She promises increased welfare spending and a lower retirement age. Her ‘France First’ foreign policy is based on increasing defense spending, reducing immigration and restoring national identity. She is unequivocally anti-EU and opposes the single currency.

Le Pen’s economic policies are close to that of the centre left. In a contest against Fillon, who advocates cutting 500,000 civil-service jobs, reducing government services, labour market de-regulation, a higher retirement age and longer working hours, traditional socialist voters may support the Front National. In a contest against Macron, En Marche’s policy of tax cuts and labour-market reforms may assist Le Pen. Fillon and Macron’s support of globalisation, the EU, greater European economic integration and immigration increases Le Pen’s appeal to French nationalists from both the right and left of the political spectrum."

She is economically a a populist center-left winger and if not then these policy's sure do sound like it. In fact she was arguable more to the Left on economics then Macron ever was.

I never said Macron was "some ultra-libertarian who wants to destroy every single safety net". I neither said he was a Libertarian nor said he would destroy every single safety net. I dislike his economics because
(First Quote are from the BBC)

1. Pro Business - While Francois Hollande initially tried to please the socialist elements of his party by being tough on companies, Mr Macron as economy minister oversaw a change in direction over the past three years, heralding a more pro-business approach.
That included about 40bn euros ($44bn; £33.9bn) in tax breaks to try to invigorate the economy, a benefit Mr Macron plans to make permanent.
He also says corporation tax will gradually reduce from 33% to 25%.
And a new wealth tax, aimed at the rich, will not apply to financial investments.

2. Tax Policy - He is a standard Neo-liberal centrist who is just putting a anti-establishment and somewhat more liberal mask over it(Forbes)

The goal of Macron’s tax program is to stimulate the economy. French unemployment remains above 10%, far higher than Germany (4%) and the United Kingdom (5%). But he wants to do that while protecting the size of the French public sector, an important difference between his government and the Republicans. He called for €50 billion more in infrastructure spending over the next five years. He would offset that with €60 billion in cuts, but almost all of those projected cuts are in unemployment benefits – which would only be realized if Macron’s policies resulted in higher employment. Socialism has changed in France (and the party with that name has been all but wiped out in the legislature). Hollande ran against Sarkozy and won on a leftist platform that proved unrealistic once he took office and confronted economic reality. For the last three years, Macron has been at the head of the Socialist government’s efforts to improve business conditions. His platform as president is basically a mirror of his proposals when he was in government.

Macron claims to be a revolutionary, but those hoping for a marked change from the Hollande government are likely to be disappointed.

3. Yes like you said the Labor Code and Regulation. No Quote here, he wants to reform the French Labour Code and make it more "flexible" too make it more in line with the rest of Europe which in my opinion is a bad idea. Also this is not on topic but on the second part of that idea of your's of him bringing down the social spending to European levels, i could support him lowering the social spending level but not to unsustainable levels, and a third of the economy on welfare is a little to much.

And then there are others. These are the main points i dont like his economics and if you want a short version of that it is because he is a economic Neo-Liberal. And these doesn't even come to the fact of the other problems with him like for example he was a Rothschild Banker.

Please learn about European politics. I dislike Macron very strongly; but "Le Pen is a left winger" is completely ridiculous to anyone with a knowledge of the continent.

I never said she was a left winger fully. I said she was a economic left winger and at least economically left wing to the average American. I want post the policy's again since there above your post. But if you have knowledge of right wing economics which she holds I would like to know. And if you want to create a straw man saying I don't know European Politics then I could just as well be saying that you have no right to be talking about American or Non-European Politics because you are a) not from that continent or b) don't know about non-European politics.

Bro, are you seriously defending Marine Le Pen?

Defending her from, at least, nonfactual statements like she is a "Fascist"

[All Along The Watchtower]

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