Why the Australia-US alliance should continue

[Platypus]

The ANZUS alliance (currently the New Zealand-US axis is suspended) is an important alliance, and the Australia-US axis is probably the strongest alliance in the world. That said, most Americans wouldn't have a clue what it is. Basically, it's from the Cold War era and it ensures tight military links between Australia and the USA, as well as other benefits.

From an Australian perpective, although one not shared by the general ANZUS-sceptic populace, the alliance is important for many reasons.

There is an old tenant of Australian foreign policy-a close relationship with a 'Great and Powerful Friend" (GAPF). From Federation (and colonial days), it was the United Kingdom until World War Two showed that they were unable to protect us. At this time, the United States stepped in (admittedly protecting Australia was very much a small concern) and, 'free from any pangs' about our relationship with the United Kingdom changing, Australia's GAPF became the United States.

Whilst in a modern sense a GAPF probably isn't essential militarily-we aren't likely to be invaded any time soon-it is still important. With US support, but not dominance, Australia has been able to gain a voice in world affairs and raise itself to middle power status. It is now much more linked to the world, particularly Asia, and is considered to be a mature and respectable member of the international community. With this, Australia (for good or bad) has lost the paternalistic relationship with Europe, particularly the UK, and the United States has not replaced this role. As many people have said, 'the United Kingdom is the mother country of Australia, the United States the elder brother". Some Australians see this as insulting, and this is understandable-we are a proud and patriotic land with a (possibly overly) fiery spirit and a strong national identity.

But the United States has offered us support, and in a way that has allowed for a strong friendship to grow between us. Whilst occasionally the United States has tried to 'pull rank', and been successful in the early years of the alliance, we are considered to be equals by the Americans; and this is appreciated by many. Whilst we might get irritated by our government not standing up to the US more and being 'arselickers', generally the alliance is a positive one, with benefits such as military technology sharing (although you could be more generous with that), intel sharing, cultural and trade agreements (again, could be more generous-especially about agricultural stuff) and financial and political ties. The alliance is a net positive for Australia, and is one of our most important international relationships, along with the PRC, Japan and Indonesia.

Whilst I can't write from an American perspective, there are definently benefits to the United States, also.Whilst Australia is not as important to the United States as the US is to Oz, we do have some things to bring to the table. The US also benefits from the military, economic and trade, political and cultural ties. Australia is a friendly nation in a volatile region, and a pro-US nation when not many can be found in the world. As one of the first, if not THE first nations to 'sign up' for Korea, Vietnam and both Iraqi wars, Australia has shown it is committed to providing the international diplomatic support the US needs, even if our military contributions aren't always large. That said, Australian soldiers were the most effective US-aligned troops in Vietnam; so we're not totally worthless in that regard.

The US also acts as a little kangaroo in the US's ear. As a friendly nation, when the US does something that upsets the rest of the world, we tend to get upset too, but we actually tell the US we're upset, why, and suggest changes. Our opinions are actually often listened to; whilst you won't hear about it over there, Australian advice was one of the major reasons Bush at least attempted to get UN approval for the invasion of Iraq. We're a bit player, sure, but we do have some benefits. Our closeness geographically, and increasingly, politically and economically to Asia provides the US with some friends in the region and an ability to, through Australia, change the geopolitical situation in the region-for example, the increasing of ties between the Asian democracies of India, Thailand, Australia and Japan (as well as Singapore) is done without US involvement, or even coercement, but due to their relations with Australia and Japan, in particular, it is a positive for the USA. It contains China, a key aim of the US (if not Australia), and also fosters democracy in a region with a shady record in the area. Whilst the Australian motivation for linking itself to Asia is not to further American aims, it is a pleasant side effect.

For Australians, the ANZUS alliance is of extreme importance. For the United States, it's nice but not essential. Either way, it should definetly continue, but if it falters it will be because of our end. To ensure it's continuation, the US needs to readjust the relationship with Australia again. We are still a little kangaroo, but you need to be fairer. We are happy to be alongside you, but we are increasingly asking for more in return. We got an FTA, although it was significantly biased in favour of the USA; but we need the US to continue the progression of our relationship of two friends and equals. Australia needs to ensure that our relationship with the United States doesn't weaken, a process that will be aided by the US if it chooses to. The United States might be our great and powerful friend; the United States needs to treat Australia as it's close and respected friend into the future, regardless of the governments of both countries.

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OK, so I know it wrapped up pretty badly, but hey. I also would like someone to elaborate on the US perspective. Any comments would be appreciated.

[angus]

most Americans wouldn't have a clue what it is.

 I also would like someone to elaborate on the US perspective.

I think you pretty much summed up the US perspective here.  In fact, I'd never even heard of it.  Nice read, though. 

Yeah, Australia is intersesting and unique.  Think:  Georgia cut off from the rest of the world by an ocean.  A former English pennitentiary colony surrounded by water.  It has evolved in a unique way over the past couple of hundred years.  Not unlike its fauna, which has evolved in a unique way over the past couple of million years. 

Now that I'm aware of the alliance I support it.  You can't have too many friends.  Seriously.  And we share a common language.  And a common culture.  It is our interest to keep Australia rightist oriented, and in Australia's interest to keep the Big Guns pointed away from, and not toward, Australia.  And, as you point out, given its proximity to rapidly "emerging markets" Australia is in a position to help the US import its brand of consummerism to some of the most densely populated regions of the world.

My friend, Doug, a big whore-chaser and major libertarian pot-head/gun-nut, spent four years in the US Navy back in the late 80s/early 90s.  He did pacific/Indian tour.  He had a number of T-shirts from Australia.  He loved australia.  He said it was one of the few ports of call in his tour where he could get laid for free, and not have to buy pussy.  He said Aussies loved American Mullet-Rock and American movies and just about everything else Yankee.  So apparently, it's paying off.  From my experience, tooling through various parts of the third world, I've found that Aussies tend to congregate around US and English people, when a lone backpacker comes upon a crowd and has to choose between a table of Europeans, locals, or US/English people, they seem to gravitate toward us.  Probably it's language more than anything else.  Fair enough.  Language trumps blood, after all.  I think "culture" is predicated by language, to a large extent.  And even though I am more closely related to europeans than to aussies and limeys (I'm a 2nd generation white american and NONE of my ancestors came from England), I still feel more "comfortable" with Aussies and English than with europeans.  And, frankly, more comfortable with Aussies than with English, if push comes to shove. 

Now, what's the cost to us?  And to you?  You haven't given us numbers, but one assumes we're probably spending less on Australia than on, say, Israel, and prbably getting a bigger bang for our buck.  Cost to you:  the occassional token troop provision to our "alliances of the willing"  A win-win, I say.

And your women are tall and leggy.  That's another plus.  Though rather flat-chested.  (that's the bane of your english heritage, I suspect.  They shall eventually evolve via natural selection, given enough millions of years combined with US movies pushing the attractiveness of big knockers.)

And we really dig those big Aussie cowboy hats and boxing Kangaroos.

[Platypus]

Akubras.

I felt both very pleased and offended by that post. Good job!

Seriously though, Australia and the US have a relatively similar history. Only two or three major differences exist. Basically, we sought independence peacefully, with only one armed rebellion in our nations history that only lasted for a sneeze (Eureka); no internal wars, and the fact we were founded almost on pure anglo-celtic grounds. We've historically been more British then America, therefore. We're often called "America-lite", but as I said in the post above, it's more like Britain is the mother country and America is the older brother. Maybe the older brother that's backpacked around the world or something

It's a shame most Americans don't know much about Australia. After about 1 and a half years, i've come pretty close to giving up on this board . Australian's couldn't tell you who the Governor of Georgia is (actually who IS the Gov. of Georgia? But we do have some knowledge aout America, partially through the not neccesarily representative TV Shows, Movies etc.

One of my favourite things to whinge about shows the 'americanization'of Australia. Whenever two little aussie kids are playing in the sandpit or whatever and they're quoting a movie, or a tv show, or a comic etc., they always impersonate the character in an American accent-even if they're Australian, or British, etc. I find it oth appalling and fascinating

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The number one reason why it shouldn't is vegemite.

[WMS]

I agree BTW that we should be fairer to y'all in trade and military matters (you have better submarines after all). The issue with trade is the agribusiness constituency...that's who you Aussies have run into on that matter. Internal domestic politics and all that. Not sure why we haven't given you more military tech...

...and the Kiwis suck for abrogating their alliance with the U.S.

[AuH2O]

Better subs? Dunno about that. The Virginia-class is no joke, and the 3 Seawolfs we have sure as hell are no joke.

I support the alliance, though let's be clear here: it's a sweet deal for Australia, and not so much for the US. In theory, at least, it means we could be drawn into a conflict not of our choosing-- though clearly that isn't likely in the forseeable future. Meanwhile, Australia essentially gets the benefit of a massive conventional and nuclear force at basically no cost.

In realist terms, then, it's lopsided in favor of Australia. In newer lines of thinking, it's a good deal for both sides because it ties the Aussies to us and promotes stability in the region, while providing them with security.

[WMS]

Better subs? Dunno about that. The Virginia-class is no joke, and the 3 Seawolfs we have sure as hell are no joke.

This is based on information from StrategyPage.com over the past year or two - apparently the U.S. and Australia conducted some naval exercises, and their sneaky subs basically wiped out the U.S. forces. Opened some eyes at the Navy, yes it did...

[Jake]

The Aussies use SSKs IIRC, so I assume they would be better for some purposes, though the US rarely uses our subs in a hunter-killer role that much any more. Australia's subs are perfect for their expected roles (lying in wait in the various straits throughout Indonesia), while the US SSNs preform our tasks (launching cruise missiles, attacking battle groups) effectively as well. I don't think it's fair to say the Collins Class is better than the Virginia's, just better at fighting other submarines. Their lack of a VLS is a major flaw as well IMO.

[angus]

After about 1 and a half years, i've come pretty close to giving up on this board

ah, hang in there.  (actually, I've come to the stark realization that educating folks about stuff is an uphill battle as well.)

look, you gotta realize that other countries (not only anglophonic ones with whom we share cultural bonds) will always be able to tell you stuff about the USA.  But it's not a two-way street.  Most Peruvians know Bush much better than most Americans know Toledo.  Only India makes more movies than we do, and given the small number of folks who speak Hindi (even very few indians speak that language; they're rather fractured that way), US movies make their way around the world to such extent that US movies account for more than half of all dollars received from box offices worldwide.  You'll always know more about us than we about you.  Don't be discouraged by that. 

and I think Perdue is the name of the governor of Georgia.  Or is that a brand of chicken?

[Platypus]

I thought it was a university....

The Collins Class? They keep discovering silly little faults and refitting the entire fleet costing billions of dollars. Very 'funny'

[Jake]

That's Purdue

[Platypus]

Still, you've probably never heard of Edith Cowan University, so I suppose that's a case of angus's theory in action.

[Jake]

Wrong, I have heard of it.

[Platypus]

within the last 30-40 minutes?

[Alcon]

Evidently since you posted about it some three minutes before he made that post, yes.

[patrick1]

I agree BTW that we should be fairer to y'all in trade and military matters (you have better submarines after all). The issue with trade is the agribusiness constituency...that's who you Aussies have run into on that matter. Internal domestic politics and all that. Not sure why we haven't given you more military tech...

...and the Kiwis suck for abrogating their alliance with the U.S.

I hadn't read that particular item about the submarine exercise, but I do tend to take these exercises with a grain of salt.  The U.S. frequently "loses" on these exercises.  I remember the very similar bit about how either the Saudi or Pakistani Air Force owned the U.S. in an exercise.  It is kind of like your older brother letting you win in a basketball game- a confidence booster. 

The Aussies have been an overlooked and crucial ally in all of our conflicts.  The British populace were protesting our nuclear prescence while the Aussies were fighting in Vietnam.  (British special forces did have a behind the scenes role in Nam as well though)   Australia is a great ally and I hope to get to the other side of the earth and visit one day.

[Platypus]

You'd be welcome. If you do visit, for god's sake go beyond Sydney though. The Harbour is stunning, but there is so much more

[WMS]

I agree BTW that we should be fairer to y'all in trade and military matters (you have better submarines after all). The issue with trade is the agribusiness constituency...that's who you Aussies have run into on that matter. Internal domestic politics and all that. Not sure why we haven't given you more military tech...

...and the Kiwis suck for abrogating their alliance with the U.S.

I hadn't read that particular item about the submarine exercise, but I do tend to take these exercises with a grain of salt.  The U.S. frequently "loses" on these exercises.  I remember the very similar bit about how either the Saudi or Pakistani Air Force owned the U.S. in an exercise.  It is kind of like your older brother letting you win in a basketball game- a confidence booster. 

The Aussies have been an overlooked and crucial ally in all of our conflicts.  The British populace were protesting our nuclear prescence while the Aussies were fighting in Vietnam.  (British special forces did have a behind the scenes role in Nam as well though)   Australia is a great ally and I hope to get to the other side of the earth and visit one day.

1st paragraph: Wasn't that the Indian Air Force you're referring to? And yes, the exercise was definitely biased. I remember the submarine exercises with the Aussies as not being biased, though, which is why it concerned the Navy so much...
2nd paragraph: fully agree. I'd also like to visit one day (I can't believe my wastrel brother pulled it off ).