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Author Topic: Florida fraud?  (Read 6130 times)
ShapeShifter
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« on: April 30, 2004, 05:05:42 pm »
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http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Is this real?
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TexasGurl
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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2004, 05:06:43 pm »
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yup it's real.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2004, 05:16:11 pm »
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yup it's real.

i never heard about this in the news.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2004, 05:16:20 pm by Senator ShapeShifter »Logged

PBrunsel
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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2004, 05:17:35 pm »
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yup it's real.

i never heard about this in the news.


Neither have I.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2004, 05:37:16 pm »
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http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2004, 05:40:26 pm »
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http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/11/04_Palast.html
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Partisan GOP Hack
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2004, 05:45:35 pm »
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Hate to break up your little "Hate Bush" get together with actual facts but...

The Federal Cival Rights commission investigated all of these allegations after the 2000 election and found then to be without merit.  Even a majority of Democrats on the panel agreed they were baseless. -

You could look that up on the internet if you wanted to, but I guess they forgot that link on "www.hatebushKillTheRich.com" where you all seem to hang out.

Secondly the "Big" counties that have the vast majority of the felons in them, Broward, Palm, etc, being under the control of Democrat Election Commissioners, operated in explicit violation of the law and ignored felony status when registering voters because they did not want to comply with a law they felt would hurt their candidate.

This is why thousands of confirmed felons did indeed vote.  Now we do not know for sure how all these felons voted, but given the counties they came from... we have a decent idea who...

Democrats... get over it... Bush won in 2000...

Your own Fine Senator Robert Byrd once said "You can't get into heaven if you have hate in your heart"

Stop hating Bush, get on with your lives...

I know you hated it when Bush won in 2000.

I know you hated it when the NY Times spent $6 recounting every single Florida ballot from 2000 and still concluded Bush won...

Let it go...

It will may your adaption back to normal society so much easier after November when Bush is re-elected...

Maybe one of Bush's "Faith based" addiction programs can help you...?

Let it go..

You will feel better.......
« Last Edit: April 30, 2004, 05:49:56 pm by Partisan GOP Hack »Logged

Official Florida Recount Guide
Count the white dots

Now count them again...
TexasGurl
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2004, 05:48:06 pm »
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Hate to break up your little "Hate Bush" get together with actual facts but...

The Federal Cival Rights commission investigated all of these allegations after the 2000 election and found then to be without merit.  Even a majority of Democrats on the panel agreed they were baseless. -

You could look that up on the internet if you wanted to, but I guess they forgot that link on "www.hatebushKillTheRich.com" where you all seem to hang out.

Secondly the "Big" counties that have the vast majority of the felons in them, Broward, Palm, etc, being under the control of Democrat Election Commissioners, operated in explicit violation of the law and ignored felony status when registering voters because they did not want to comply with a law they felt would hurt their candidate.

This is why thousands of confirmed felons did indeed vote.  Now we do not know for sure how all these felons voted, but given the counties they came from... we have a decent idea who...

Democrats... get over it... Bush won in 2000...

Your own Fine Senator Robert Byrd once said "You can't get into heaven if you have hate in your heart"

Stop hating Bush, get on with your lives...

I know you hated it when Bush won in 2000.

I know you hated it when the NY Times spent $6 recounting every single Florida ballot from 2000 and still concluded Bush won...

Let it go...

It will may your adaption back to normal society so much easier after November when Bush is re-elected...

Maybe one of Bush's "Faith based" addiction programs can help you...?



You will feel better...
gee aren't you special...
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Partisan GOP Hack
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2004, 05:53:08 pm »
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Good thing Jeb won by over a million votes in 2002... or you democrats would STILL BE WHINING about florida in 2002 to go along with your WHINING ABOUT 2000...

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Official Florida Recount Guide
Count the white dots

Now count them again...
Partisan GOP Hack
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2004, 05:57:38 pm »
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Quote
gee aren't you special...

Nice retort... far better than actual factual arguments...

Question #1)

Did the Federal Civil Rights Commission investigate these allegations? Yes or No...?

Question #2)

Did the Federal Civil Rights Commission, including a majority of Democrats determine the were baseless? Yes or No...?

Question #3)

Did the Democratically controlled primarily African American Counties in Florida actively and knowingly violate state law by allowing felons to be put on the local county voter lists.. Yes or No....?

Answers would be appreciated...

Sorry... this is the HateBush thread...  I will leave now I am clearly not welcome...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2004, 06:00:00 pm by Partisan GOP Hack »Logged

Official Florida Recount Guide
Count the white dots

Now count them again...
ShapeShifter
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2004, 05:58:15 pm »
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Good thing Jeb won by over a million votes in 2002... or you democrats would STILL BE WHINING about florida in 2002 to go along with your WHINING ABOUT 2000...



calm down. keep it civil. I was not trying to start a "hate bush" parade. we already have partisan members in this forum, we don't need another. I just posted this because I wanted to know if this was "true". Just like I posted my post about Kerry's abortion claim. I actually question my own party.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2004, 06:02:35 pm »
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Hate to break up your little "Hate Bush" get together with actual facts but...

The Federal Cival Rights commission investigated all of these allegations after the 2000 election and found then to be without merit.  Even a majority of Democrats on the panel agreed they were baseless. -

You could look that up on the internet if you wanted to, but I guess they forgot that link on "www.hatebushKillTheRich.com" where you all seem to hang out.

Secondly the "Big" counties that have the vast majority of the felons in them, Broward, Palm, etc, being under the control of Democrat Election Commissioners, operated in explicit violation of the law and ignored felony status when registering voters because they did not want to comply with a law they felt would hurt their candidate.

This is why thousands of confirmed felons did indeed vote.  Now we do not know for sure how all these felons voted, but given the counties they came from... we have a decent idea who...

Democrats... get over it... Bush won in 2000...

Your own Fine Senator Robert Byrd once said "You can't get into heaven if you have hate in your heart"

Stop hating Bush, get on with your lives...

I know you hated it when Bush won in 2000.

I know you hated it when the NY Times spent $6 recounting every single Florida ballot from 2000 and still concluded Bush won...

Let it go...

It will may your adaption back to normal society so much easier after November when Bush is re-elected...

Maybe one of Bush's "Faith based" addiction programs can help you...?

Let it go..

You will feel better.......

we all? I don't hang out on that website. you are making some real over generalization. keep it civil.

Do you have a link on the FCR investigation on these allegations?

Also, be reminded that this board is the 2000 US Presidential elections results. It is to discuss the 2000 election. If you don't like hearing about the 2000 election just let it go and don't read the post here.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2004, 06:06:09 pm »
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Quote
gee aren't you special...

Nice retort... far better than actual factual arguments...

Question #1)

Did the Federal Civil Rights Commission investigate these allegations? Yes or No...?

Question #2)

Did the Federal Civil Rights Commission, including a majority of Democrats determine the were baseless? Yes or No...?

Question #3)

Did the Democratically controlled primarily African American Counties in Florida actively and knowingly violate state law by allowing felons to be put on the local county voter lists.. Yes or No....?

Answers would be appreciated...

Sorry... this is the HateBush thread...  I will leave now I am clearly not welcome...

This is NOT the hatebush thread. this is the questions about a particular allegation thread. didn't you see, I posted the link and asked "is this real?" I did not go on about, wow... bush stole the election! I did not go on and on with partisan talk. I asked a simple question. "is this real?" hopefully someone can either back the allegations up or refute it.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2004, 07:03:05 am »
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If you want to know more about this allegation, I am unsure whether true or not, read "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palast who is an American Investigative Journalist who writes for the Guardian and Independent (I think it is both) which are British Papers.
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NickSmith52
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2004, 11:57:15 am »
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A lot of Black votes for Gore weren't counted because of this.
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Beet
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2004, 10:15:52 pm »
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Quote
The Federal Cival Rights commission investigated all of these allegations after the 2000 election and found then to be without merit...

You could look that up on the internet if you wanted to, but I guess they forgot that link on "www.hatebushKillTheRich.com" where you all seem to hang out.

In light of the executive summary of the report by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, Partisan Hack's post really pisses me off. Where does he get his information from anyway, talk radio?:

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm

"After carefully and fully examining all the evidence, the Commission found a strong basis for concluding that violations of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act (VRA) occurred in Florida."

-US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

The state’s highest officials responsible for ensuring efficiency, uniformity, and fairness in the election failed to fulfill their responsibilities and were subsequently unwilling to take responsibility."

-US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

Disenfranchised voters are individuals who are entitled to vote, want to vote, or attempt to vote, but who are deprived from either voting or having their votes counted.

The most dramatic undercount in the Florida election was the uncast ballots of countless eligible voters who were wrongfully turned away from the polls. Statistical data, reinforced by credible anecdotal evidence, point to the widespread denial of voting rights. It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy..

-US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters.

-US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

- US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker.

A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, “By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn’t want to work as a clerk anymore.”

A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor’s office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours.

A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40–50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections.

A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30–50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period.

Other persons testified about waiting in long lines only to be ultimately denied their right to vote.

-US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

"Florida’s overzealous efforts to purge voters from the rolls, conducted under the guise of an anti-fraud campaign, resulted in the inexcusable and patently unjust removal of disproportionate numbers of African American voters from Florida’s voter registration rolls for the November 2000 election."
- US CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION

EXECUTIVEY SUMMARY:
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm

Also see below:
********

BBC NEWS
Friday, 12 January, 2001, 22:35 GMT
Harris defends Florida poll

The chair of the US Civil Rights Commission, Mary Frances Berry, described as "laughable" the testimony of Miss Harris, after she dodged questions about her responsibilities.

One panel member called it a "merry-go-round of denial".

One area that has aroused suspicion is that Miss Harris's department commissioned a Texas-based company with strong Republican links to draw up a list of convicts in Florida who were banned from voting.

Miss Harris admitted that she learned that the company had made mistakes which involved innocent people losing their voting rights.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1114377.stm

*******



http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=122&row=1



*******
THE MIAMI HERALD
Ex-felons seeking voting rights get trial

A federal appellate court grants more than 600,000 former felons in Florida a federal trial to challenge the state's ban on the restoration of their voting rights.

BY JAY WEAVER

jweaver@herald.com

"A federal appellate court ruled Friday that Florida's 135-year-old ban on ex-felons' voting rights could be racially discriminatory, and ordered a Miami trial for hundreds of thousands of former convicts seeking to restore those rights.
...
In their opinion, Barkett and Fullam found preliminary evidence in the case showed that Florida's ban violated the ex-felons' voting rights.

They said a trial judge, upon hearing all the historical facts of the case, could conclude ``this evidence demonstrates intentional racial discrimination . . . in violation of the Voting Rights Act.''
« Last Edit: May 03, 2004, 10:21:12 pm by Senator Beet »Logged

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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2004, 10:23:13 pm »
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The "Civil Rights commision" was nothing but partisan nonsense.  Most of the counties with problems WERE RUN BY DEMOCRATS!
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Beet
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2004, 11:15:57 pm »
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The "Civil Rights commision" was nothing but partisan nonsense.  Most of the counties with problems WERE RUN BY DEMOCRATS!

Sorry but a commission that has an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, half of whom were appointed by the Republican-controlled Congress, is not "partisan nonsense". If you read the report you will find a very thorough investigation was conducted. Not to mention- Katherine Harris herself admitted that actions of DBT Online disenfranchised innocent people from voting.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2004, 11:23:26 pm by Senator Beet »Logged

ShapeShifter
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2004, 10:29:28 am »
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The "Civil Rights commision" was nothing but partisan nonsense.  Most of the counties with problems WERE RUN BY DEMOCRATS!

Sorry but a commission that has an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, half of whom were appointed by the Republican-controlled Congress, is not "partisan nonsense". If you read the report you will find a very thorough investigation was conducted. Not to mention- Katherine Harris herself admitted that actions of DBT Online disenfranchised innocent people from voting.

Thank You Beet. Finally, someone to back up or refute the allegations.
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Beet
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2004, 09:07:51 pm »
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The "Civil Rights commision" was nothing but partisan nonsense.  Most of the counties with problems WERE RUN BY DEMOCRATS!

Sorry but a commission that has an equal number of Republicans and Democrats, half of whom were appointed by the Republican-controlled Congress, is not "partisan nonsense". If you read the report you will find a very thorough investigation was conducted. Not to mention- Katherine Harris herself admitted that actions of DBT Online disenfranchised innocent people from voting.

Thank You Beet. Finally, someone to back up or refute the allegations.

My pleasure, ShapeShifter.
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zorkpolitics
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2004, 09:31:49 pm »
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FL  definitely had problems in 2000, which prevented some properly registered voters from voting, but also many allowed many people to vote who should not have.
The voter purge list did indeed contain errors, was but the bigger democratic counties: Broward, Dade, etc did not use it.
The Miami Hearld did an in depth review of the votes cast in Dade County.  They found over a 1000 felons who should not have voted did, they also found that 100s of other illegal votes were cast by people who were still in jail (absentee from prison!), had moved out of the county, had never registered, and in a few cases someone voted for dead people.   The Palm Beach Post found that 20,000 voters in Palm Beach were also registered in NY, its unknown how many if any, voted twice.
Many of the minority voters "turned away" were college students registered by Jessie Jackson after the registration deadline, so they were legally ineligible for the 2000 election
The fact that black precincts had higher ballot error rates, does not prove discrimination.   It may just prove they made more mistakes because they were less well prepared, or did not understand how to vote (100s of ballots had selected all 10 Presidential candidates).
So the reality is when an election is very close errors will be found that might have affected the outcome.
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ShapeShifter
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2004, 10:40:17 pm »
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FL  definitely had problems in 2000, which prevented some properly registered voters from voting, but also many allowed many people to vote who should not have.
The voter purge list did indeed contain errors, was but the bigger democratic counties: Broward, Dade, etc did not use it.
The Miami Hearld did an in depth review of the votes cast in Dade County.  They found over a 1000 felons who should not have voted did, they also found that 100s of other illegal votes were cast by people who were still in jail (absentee from prison!), had moved out of the county, had never registered, and in a few cases someone voted for dead people.   The Palm Beach Post found that 20,000 voters in Palm Beach were also registered in NY, its unknown how many if any, voted twice.
Many of the minority voters "turned away" were college students registered by Jessie Jackson after the registration deadline, so they were legally ineligible for the 2000 election
The fact that black precincts had higher ballot error rates, does not prove discrimination.   It may just prove they made more mistakes because they were less well prepared, or did not understand how to vote (100s of ballots had selected all 10 Presidential candidates).
So the reality is when an election is very close errors will be found that might have affected the outcome.


links?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2004, 09:20:23 am »
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FL  definitely had problems in 2000, which prevented some properly registered voters from voting, but also many allowed many people to vote who should not have.
The voter purge list did indeed contain errors, was but the bigger democratic counties: Broward, Dade, etc did not use it.
The Miami Hearld did an in depth review of the votes cast in Dade County.  They found over a 1000 felons who should not have voted did, they also found that 100s of other illegal votes were cast by people who were still in jail (absentee from prison!), had moved out of the county, had never registered, and in a few cases someone voted for dead people.   The Palm Beach Post found that 20,000 voters in Palm Beach were also registered in NY, its unknown how many if any, voted twice.
Many of the minority voters "turned away" were college students registered by Jessie Jackson after the registration deadline, so they were legally ineligible for the 2000 election
The fact that black precincts had higher ballot error rates, does not prove discrimination.   It may just prove they made more mistakes because they were less well prepared, or did not understand how to vote (100s of ballots had selected all 10 Presidential candidates).
So the reality is when an election is very close errors will be found that might have affected the outcome.


You're still around? Smiley I haven't seen a post by you in a long time... Smiley
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2004, 10:15:56 am »
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FL  definitely had problems in 2000, which prevented some properly registered voters from voting, but also many allowed many people to vote who should not have.
The voter purge list did indeed contain errors, was but the bigger democratic counties: Broward, Dade, etc did not use it.
The Miami Hearld did an in depth review of the votes cast in Dade County.  They found over a 1000 felons who should not have voted did, they also found that 100s of other illegal votes were cast by people who were still in jail (absentee from prison!), had moved out of the county, had never registered, and in a few cases someone voted for dead people.   The Palm Beach Post found that 20,000 voters in Palm Beach were also registered in NY, its unknown how many if any, voted twice.
Many of the minority voters "turned away" were college students registered by Jessie Jackson after the registration deadline, so they were legally ineligible for the 2000 election
The fact that black precincts had higher ballot error rates, does not prove discrimination.   It may just prove they made more mistakes because they were less well prepared, or did not understand how to vote (100s of ballots had selected all 10 Presidential candidates).
So the reality is when an election is very close errors will be found that might have affected the outcome.


You're still around? Smiley I haven't seen a post by you in a long time... Smiley

If 10 days is a long time Tongue
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Gustaf
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2004, 04:11:50 pm »
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FL  definitely had problems in 2000, which prevented some properly registered voters from voting, but also many allowed many people to vote who should not have.
The voter purge list did indeed contain errors, was but the bigger democratic counties: Broward, Dade, etc did not use it.
The Miami Hearld did an in depth review of the votes cast in Dade County.  They found over a 1000 felons who should not have voted did, they also found that 100s of other illegal votes were cast by people who were still in jail (absentee from prison!), had moved out of the county, had never registered, and in a few cases someone voted for dead people.   The Palm Beach Post found that 20,000 voters in Palm Beach were also registered in NY, its unknown how many if any, voted twice.
Many of the minority voters "turned away" were college students registered by Jessie Jackson after the registration deadline, so they were legally ineligible for the 2000 election
The fact that black precincts had higher ballot error rates, does not prove discrimination.   It may just prove they made more mistakes because they were less well prepared, or did not understand how to vote (100s of ballots had selected all 10 Presidential candidates).
So the reality is when an election is very close errors will be found that might have affected the outcome.


You're still around? Smiley I haven't seen a post by you in a long time... Smiley

If 10 days is a long time Tongue

I haven't seen Tongue
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This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
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