"Louisianians Rushing to Get Out of Dodge"

[Storebought]

An ABCNews article postdated August 28

Aug. 28, 2005 - Coastal residents jammed freeways and gas stations Saturday as they frantically rushed to get out of the way of Hurricane Katrina, a vicious storm that could make a direct hit on New Orleans and submerge the low-lying city in nearly 20 feet of water.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a test. This is the real deal," New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin said. "Board up your homes, make sure you have enough medicine, make sure the car has enough gas. Do all things you normally do for a hurricane but treat this one differently because it is pointed towards New Orleans."

Katrina was a Category 3 storm with 115 mph sustained wind Saturday, but the National Hurricane Center said it was likely to gain force over the Gulf of Mexico, where surface water temperature as high as 90 degrees is high-octane fuel for hurricanes. It could become a Category 4 monster before striking the coast early Monday.

The storm formed in the Bahamas and ripped across South Florida on Thursday, causing nine deaths, before moving into the gulf.

Katrina could be a nightmare if it strikes New Orleans because the bowl-like city sits below sea level and is dependent on levees and pumps to keep the water out. The mayor said that in a worst-case scenario, a gigantic storm surge would sweep past the levees and flood the city with 18 feet of water. It would take weeks to pump all of the water out, he said.

Nagin said he spoke to a forecaster at the hurricane center who told him that "this is the storm New Orleans has feared these many years." Nagin was exploring the idea of ordering a mandatory evacuation.

Making matters worse, at least 100,000 people in the city lack the transportation to get out of town. Nagin said the Superdome could be used as a shelter of last resort for people who have no cars, with city bus pick-up points around New Orleans.

"I know they're saying `Get out of town,' but I don't have any way to get out," said Hattie Johns, 74. "If you don't have no money, you can't go."

A hurricane watch extended from Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle, and President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana. His spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

"At this juncture, all we can do is pray it doesn't come this way and tear us up," said Jeannette Ruboyianes, owner of the Day Dream Inn at Grand Isle, Louisiana's only inhabited barrier island.

Owners of gas stations in and around New Orleans were forced to direct traffic as lines to the pumps stretched down surrounding streets. Gas stations were running low on gas by midafternoon Saturday

"I was in line at the bank for an hour and have been waiting for gas for 30 minutes," said John Sullivan. "If it's anything like they say its going to be, we don't want to be anywhere close to the city."

Louisiana and Mississippi made all lanes northbound on interstate highways. Mississippi declared a state of emergency and Alabama offered assistance to its neighbors. Some motels as far inland as Jackson, Miss., 150 miles north of New Orleans, were already booked up.

By 5 p.m. EDT Saturday, the eye of the hurricane was about 380 miles southeast of the mouth of the Mississippi River and about 240 miles west of Key West, Fla. It was moving west at nearly 7 mph, the hurricane center said.

"We know that we're going to take the brunt of it," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said. "It does not bode well for southeastern Louisiana."

Some tourists heeded the warnings and moved up their departures, and lines of tourists waited for cabs on New Orleans' famed Bourbon Street.

"The problem is getting a taxi to the airport. There aren't any," said Brian Katz, a salesman from New York.

But plenty of people in the French Quarter stayed put, and the bars were rocking Saturday.

"The only dangerous hurricanes so far are the ones we've been drinking," said Fred Wilson of San Francisco, as he sipped on the famous drink at Pat O'Brien's Bar. "We can't get out, so we might as well have fun."

New Orleans' worst hurricane disaster happened 40 years ago, when Hurricane Betsy blasted the Gulf Coast. Flood waters approached 20 feet in some areas, fishing villages were flattened, and the storm surge left almost half of New Orleans under water and 60,000 residents homeless. Seventy-four people died in Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida.

Katrina was a Category 1 storm with 80 mph wind when it hit South Florida on Thursday, and rainfall was estimated at up to 20 inches. Risk modeling companies have said early estimates of insured damage range from $600 million to $2 billion.

Nine people were killed in Florida as a result of Katrina, including two people discovered Saturday in their home after suffering apparent carbon monoxide poisoning from a generator.

South Florida utility crews were still working Saturday to restore power to about 700,000 customers, down from more than 1 million. Residents waited in lines that stretched for miles to reach state-operated centers distributing free water and ice for those without electricity.

Florida has been hit by six hurricanes since last August.

Katrina is the 11th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season, which began June 1. That's seven more than typically have formed by now in the Atlantic, Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico, the hurricane center said. The season ends Nov. 30.

[Storebought]

I only post this as a preemptive strike against the orgy of Bush-hatred that the media will produce *these few weeks*. Not to mention the racist hate on display from the CBC.

*EDIT: That should read, "right as we type, by coordinated attack throughout all articles, editorials, and ledes"

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

[J. J.]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

Exactly. The first people to have got out should have been people who would have struggled to get themselves out on their own (old, sick, poor etc)... in practice the only way to have got that done would have been to actually take them out.

[minionofmidas]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

Exactly. The first people to have got out should have been people who would have struggled to get themselves out on their own (old, sick, poor etc)... in practice the only way to have got that done would have been to actually take them out.

Yeah, they should have been bussed out before the storm hit. This was a grave mistake, on Nagin's part. But he probably felt he was already being far more radical than everybody else.

[Platypus]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

Exactly. The first people to have got out should have been people who would have struggled to get themselves out on their own (old, sick, poor etc)... in practice the only way to have got that done would have been to actually take them out.

If that happenned then people like phknrocket would still have something to complain about, but the situation would be a lot better.

[Sam Spade]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

Exactly. The first people to have got out should have been people who would have struggled to get themselves out on their own (old, sick, poor etc)... in practice the only way to have got that done would have been to actually take them out.

Yeah, they should have been bussed out before the storm hit. This was a grave mistake, on Nagin's part. But he probably felt he was already being far more radical than everybody else.

As a little FYI, and this really hasn't been published much anywhere else, the only other slightly major city on the Gulf Coast with a large, poor population who has no means of getting out is Galveston, Texas.

However, they have an emergency plan where there are, I believe, a total of 60 buses which would ferry these citizens outto higher ground in case of a hurricane emergency like Katrina. 

Galveston's population is significantly smaller than New Orleans, but still, there is really no excuse why New Orleans did not have a similar plan for handling its poorest citizens.

[??????????]

The discussed mandatory evacuations in the past on a news source I was watching. They were saying their had been several lawsuits placed upon NOLA in the past as a result of monetary loss from false alarms. That is why this time around Mayor Naggin and Gov. Blanco were a bit more hesitant to issue the mandatory evacuation.

[J. J.]

Okay, he's damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

[Platypus]

exactly

[muon2]

A lot of people were too poor to leave.

If it was ordered, they would have been taken out.

Exactly. The first people to have got out should have been people who would have struggled to get themselves out on their own (old, sick, poor etc)... in practice the only way to have got that done would have been to actually take them out.

Yeah, they should have been bussed out before the storm hit. This was a grave mistake, on Nagin's part. But he probably felt he was already being far more radical than everybody else.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nagin said he was considering a mandatory evacuation, then ordered it the next day. He already had lined up buses to take people to the Superdome. If he was considering it, why didn't he requisition buses and other vehicles to move people out, not just to the Superdome?

It seems like he ordered a mandatory evacuation that wasn't entirely mandatory. I would interpret mandatory to mean do it, or we'll do it for you.

On the subject of legal vulnerability for evacuations ... Why isn't there a shield law to protect officials who order evacuations based on best data available?

[J. J.]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nagin said he was considering a mandatory evacuation, then ordered it the next day. He already had lined up buses to take people to the Superdome. If he was considering it, why didn't he requisition buses and other vehicles to move people out, not just to the Superdome?

It seems like he ordered a mandatory evacuation that wasn't entirely mandatory. I would interpret mandatory to mean do it, or we'll do it for you.

On the subject of legal vulnerability for evacuations ... Why isn't there a shield law to protect officials who order evacuations based on best data available?

I'd like to see the link.

The City could be sued, if not Nagin personally.  There could even be federal Civil Rights suits (though I doubt if they'd be successful).

Second, assume that you can get the population out, how are feed them and provide for sanitation.  The bus can't drive to McDonald's take out window and say, "80,000 Happy Meals, please."  You'd need a vacant city to take them to, outside of the hurricane range.

Third, assuming the buses were operational after the storm, the highway system wasn't.  That's the real problem.  I-10 is under in parts of Orleans and St Charles Parishes (still).  Rail is a possibility, but the eastbound tracks are underwater.

Even if he tried to do it before the hurricane, at 50 per bus, he'd need 1800 buses.  He'd have to gas them.  You could get the poor out, but not the disabled and caregivers.  Further, they'd have problems getting those groups to a "staging area."

You'd still have a problem and I doubt if the order could be implemented in full.

[muon2]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nagin said he was considering a mandatory evacuation, then ordered it the next day. He already had lined up buses to take people to the Superdome. If he was considering it, why didn't he requisition buses and other vehicles to move people out, not just to the Superdome?

It seems like he ordered a mandatory evacuation that wasn't entirely mandatory. I would interpret mandatory to mean do it, or we'll do it for you.

On the subject of legal vulnerability for evacuations ... Why isn't there a shield law to protect officials who order evacuations based on best data available?

I'd like to see the link.

The City could be sued, if not Nagin personally.  There could even be federal Civil Rights suits (though I doubt if they'd be successful).

Second, assume that you can get the population out, how are feed them and provide for sanitation.  The bus can't drive to McDonald's take out window and say, "80,000 Happy Meals, please."  You'd need a vacant city to take them to, outside of the hurricane range.

Third, assuming the buses were operational after the storm, the highway system wasn't.  That's the real problem.  I-10 is under in parts of Orleans and St Charles Parishes (still).  Rail is a possibility, but the eastbound tracks are underwater.

Even if he tried to do it before the hurricane, at 50 per bus, he'd need 1800 buses.  He'd have to gas them.  You could get the poor out, but not the disabled and caregivers.  Further, they'd have problems getting those groups to a "staging area."

You'd still have a problem and I doubt if the order could be implemented in full.

Here is a link from WWL TVs web site. It's not my original source, but sifting through the rapidly changing news pages gets difficult.

The text is useful in hindsight:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I read the announcement as one of the President pushing the Governor and Mayor to do their jobs and recognize the potential for distaster.

The evacuation only exempted the following (according to CNN):

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet with emergency powers the Mayor trusted people to bring the necessary food to the Superdome. It seems like he contradicts his own evacuation order there. It also seems naive to expect the people who are least likely to leave to have the ability to fully provide for their needs for a few days.

He issued an order to the police to commandeer vehicles, which would include buses, vans and trucks. Yes, it would take a lot, but 25-50,000 people is a only few percent more than the number of people who were evacuating at that time. Again, it looks like he was talking, but not really acting in advance of the hurricane.
 

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Yes, Republicans would like to blame the conservative Democratic governor of Lousiana who wrote an urgent letter requesting the National Guard and aide on Sunday and the former Republican mayor of New Orleans who called for mandatory evacuations, but the blame for this really rests with Bush.

[muon2]

Yes, Republicans would like to blame the conservative Democratic governor of Lousiana who wrote an urgent letter requesting the National Guard and aide on Sunday and the former Republican mayor of New Orleans who called for mandatory evacuations, but the blame for this really rests with Bush.

No. As an official, I expect other officials to do their jobs. You may have noticed that my first target was FEMA director Brown in another thread that also has many posts by you.

You also might respond to the fact that Bush had to ask Blanco to order a mandatory evacuation. That shouldn't be his job if the Governor and Mayor were responding to the imminent threat in accordance with their positions.

I'm willing to say that there were lapses by federal officials in response to the disaster. Are you willing to say there were lapses by Louisiana officials ahead of the disaster?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Yes, Republicans would like to blame the conservative Democratic governor of Lousiana who wrote an urgent letter requesting the National Guard and aide on Sunday and the former Republican mayor of New Orleans who called for mandatory evacuations, but the blame for this really rests with Bush.

No. As an official, I expect other officials to do their jobs. You may have noticed that my first target was FEMA director Brown in another thread that also has many posts by you.

You also might respond to the fact that Bush had to ask Blanco to order a mandatory evacuation. That shouldn't be his job if the Governor and Mayor were responding to the imminent threat in accordance with their positions.

Here is the letter that Blanco wrote to Bush on Sunday. She mentions an evacuation, and called for federal assistance, which took several days to come.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure.

[muon2]

No question that she wrote that letter on Sunday. But the Governor admitted that same day that the President had to "personally appeal for a mandatory evactuation". I don't know enough Louisiana protocol to know whether that was a lapse by the Governor or the Mayor or state staffers, but somone there needed a push.

Also the Governor's letter only asks for one piece of non-monetary assistance. That is for a debris removal assignment. I don't know if FEMA's earlier disaster plans had anticipated the number of non-evacuees and what they planned to do about them. But, both the state and federal officials had those plans and someone might have suggested putting more specific requests in the letter for other forms of federal assistance. If the disaster plans didn't anticipate the number who might be left in the city, shame on the planners.

[J. J.]

Neither she, nor Nagin, ordered an evacuation.  Theytalked about it, but they didn't do anything about it.

Now, I seriously doubt that everyone could have been evacuated in such a short time.  The Mayor, however, could have provided buses for those people without transport.    He did nothing.  

After the hurricane, Nagin could have co-ordinated relief efforts from the site.  The west bank of NOLA was nearly untouched, less than two miles from both the Superdome and the Convention Center, and they have phone service.  The bridge, the Cressent Connection, is intact an operational; it actually passes over the Convention Center.

He could have borrowed a media truck to get the message out, if necessary.  Instead, he ran 60 miles north to Baton Rouge.  He tried to manage everything from 60 miles away.

You want to know where control failed, it was when Nagin took a road trip to Baton Rouge.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Neither she, nor Nagin, ordered an evacuation.  Theytalked about it, but they didn't do anything about it.

Now, I seriously doubt that everyone could have been evacuated in such a short time.  The Mayor, however, could have provided buses for those people without transport.    He did nothing.  

After the hurricane, Nagin could have co-ordinated relief efforts from the site.  The west bank of NOLA was nearly untouched, less than two miles from both the Superdome and the Convention Center, and they have phone service.  The bridge, the Cressent Connection, is intact an operational; it actually passes over the Convention Center.

He could have borrowed a media truck to get the message out, if necessary.  Instead, he ran 60 miles north to Baton Rouge.  He tried to manage everything from 60 miles away.

You want to know where control failed, it was when Nagin took a road trip to Baton Rouge.

He's in New Orleans now. This article says:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/12555317.htm

Basically, people can't decide whether it's better for him to be in Baton Rouge or New Orleans.


Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. Obviously it didn't get everyone to leave, a lot of people weren't able to leave, thanks to poor planning. 

[??????????]

Well I think it's a sad fact but we are going to have to admit some things here like it or not. Not everyone is going to be saved from any storm. We have to accept the fact that some people are probably going to die from hurricanes for many possible reasons :

-Elderly
-Disability
-Refusal to leave

I feel that cities/counties/states should do their best to get the first two groups out but the third group you can't make leave. If they want to be damned fools and risk their lives and roll the dice..so be it. The other thing is that these storms are pretty much completely unpredictable forecast wise. Sure they can get a good track and category strength but things happen w/these storms as they tend to get a mind of their own. If you remember last year Charley was supposed to make a direct hit on St. Petersburg/Tampa but thank God that it jogged east 3-4 hours before landfall or we could have had a real mess.

[J. J.]

He's in New Orleans now. This article says:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/12555317.htm

Basically, people can't decide whether it's better for him to be in Baton Rouge or New Orleans.


Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. Obviously it didn't get everyone to leave, a lot of people weren't able to leave, thanks to poor planning. 

"Now," isn't good enough.  The Superdome is evacuated.  Nagin ordered one after the fully funded, "hurricane proof" levee broke and the city was flooded.  That is good enough either.  Obviously, some were unwilling, or could not, due to disability, get out, but he could have said, "If you don't have a ride, we'll get you one," and provided the buses.  That is the Mayor's responsibility, not the Governor's and not the President's.

At that point, he could have gotten support from Blanco and Bush, but he didn't even try.