Bush has a fake photo op

[jimrtex]

The Halliburton scandals happened under this adminstration.

KBR was providing the same services in Bosnia that it was in Iraq.  It is helping set up the refugee shelters in Houston.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The Halliburton scandals happened under this adminstration.

KBR was providing the same services in Bosnia that it was in Iraq.  It is helping set up the refugee shelters in Houston.

Great, but the scandals happened under this adminstration.

[J. J.]

Wow, some no-bid Halliburton contracts. This government is not my government.  the scumbags.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/politics/04halliburton.html

Wow, according to the article. 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I had no idea Bill Clinton was involved with KBR.  He was president during most of that period.

As to this not being your government, the only thing I can say is THANK GOD.  We don't need a glacial wasteland where the USA use to be.

The Halliburton scandals happened under this adminstration.

And?  They have a long term contract and they are being closely monitored.

[jimrtex]

This doesn't match what Mayor Nagin or Senator Vitter said (both on New Orleans television).

Link?

WWL is being broadcast on Houston cable TV.  Their web site is saying that they will start broadcasting on the internet at 8 AM on Sunday.

[angus]

Levee repairs were faked in a Bush photo op. Words fail me that the President would interfere with the actual relief effort to get himself a photo op.

http://landrieu.senate.gov/~landrieu/releases/05/2005903E12.html

intelligent words fail you regularly.  you have a pretty louisiana avatar?  you ever been to louisiana?  have you ever waited inside for a hurricane to pass over?  you ever set down with a bunch of poor illiterate folks who smell and look so differently than you that you aren't quite sure what to say to them?  do you ever know what the f uck you are talking about?   

"this government is not my government" you say.  when you grow a pair of balls as big as the people who laid down their lives in insurrection to give you a country, you can say that with dignity.

Bush has a pile of sh**t heaped on him during his presidency.  even his predecessor, whom I respect and who probably took office while you were still in diapers, will tell you that.  it isn't words that fail you, it's the capacity to use them intelligently.   First, there was nothing "fake" about his photo opportunity.  Thousands of US citizens (he is the head of state, in case you've forgotten) have perished of a natural disaster.  Secondly, Mr. Nagen, the mayor of New Orleans, was very clear that after his meeting with the President, he was assured that the president had a greater understanding of the current needs of the people of New Orleans.  Third, Ms. Landrieu is hanging on, politically, by a thread, and will attempt to use, as you do, this natural disaster, in a politically expedient way to further her own career.  If it happens to be the case that she can affix the blame of 18th century engineering on her political opponents in order to make her look good by comparison, she will.  This is what politicians do.

I don't exactly understand the source of your bitterness, but you seriously need help, you sick bastard.  I needn't remind you that YOU were among those who bitched and whined about money constantly being transferred from the "blue" states to the "red" states.  (the majority of these whiners were democrats.  very odd, since the democrats are the ones who claim to be "liberals")  And now, you are bitching because money isn't being transferred from the "blue" to the "red" states fast enough. 

people are dying of disease and starvation, IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, and a perusal of this forum tells me your immediate reaction is to assess how well you can use it to for your own party's gain.  you'll make a good lawyer one day.  that is, if your apparently delicous foot and your inability to discriminate between legitimate news sources and propaganda doesn't keep you out of law school.

[ATFFL]

Memo to myslef:

Do not get angus pissed at me.

[John Dibble]

Memo to myslef:

Do not get angus pissed at me.

Yeah, angus just ripped jfern a new one.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Levee repairs were faked in a Bush photo op. Words fail me that the President would interfere with the actual relief effort to get himself a photo op.

http://landrieu.senate.gov/~landrieu/releases/05/2005903E12.html

intelligent words fail you regularly.  you have a pretty louisiana avatar?  you ever been to louisiana?  have you ever waited inside for a hurricane to pass over?  you ever set down with a bunch of poor illiterate folks who smell and look so differently than you that you aren't quite sure what to say to them?  do you ever know what the f uck you are talking about?   

"this government is not my government" you say.  when you grow a pair of balls as big as the people who laid down their lives in insurrection to give you a country, you can say that with dignity.

Bush has a pile of sh**t heaped on him during his presidency.  even his predecessor, whom I respect and who probably took office while you were still in diapers, will tell you that.  it isn't words that fail you, it's the capacity to use them intelligently.   First, there was nothing "fake" about his photo opportunity.  Thousands of US citizens (he is the head of state, in case you've forgotten) have perished of a natural disaster.  Secondly, Mr. Nagen, the mayor of New Orleans, was very clear that after his meeting with the President, he was assured that the president had a greater understanding of the current needs of the people of New Orleans.  Third, Ms. Landrieu is hanging on, politically, by a thread, and will attempt to use, as you do, this natural disaster, in a politically expedient way to further her own career.  If it happens to be the case that she can affix the blame of 18th century engineering on her political opponents in order to make her look good by comparison, she will.  This is what politicians do.

I don't exactly understand the source of your bitterness, but you seriously need help, you sick bastard.  I needn't remind you that YOU were among those who bitched and whined about money constantly being transferred from the "blue" states to the "red" states.  (the majority of these whiners were democrats.  very odd, since the democrats are the ones who claim to be "liberals")  And now, you are bitching because money isn't being transferred from the "blue" to the "red" states fast enough. 

people are dying of disease and starvation, IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, and a perusal of this forum tells me your immediate reaction is to assess how well you can use it to for your own party's gain.  you'll make a good lawyer one day.  that is, if your apparently delicous foot and your inability to discriminate between legitimate news sources and propaganda doesn't keep you out of law school.

I never had a problem with neccessary spending like the hurricane and flood money for New Orleans that the Bush adminstration had cut. However, that doesn't mean that I support $231 million bridges to nowhere in Alaska.

My response when there is a horrible failure at the top of how the federal response is handle is to attack the people who failed. I want compentent rulers in this country. Is that too much to hope for? If Bush had done the job that he had done for the hurricanes in Florida in 2004 when he needed their votes, I would not be bitching.

It's sad that you don't seem to care that the Lousiana relief efforts were sacrificed for Bush's photo op.

[Sam Spade]

Memo to myslef:

Do not get angus pissed at me.

Yeah, angus just ripped jfern a new one.

Yep.  Highly amusing.

And I never want to get angus mad at me either.  

[John Dibble]

I never had a problem with neccessary spending like the hurricane and flood money for New Orleans that the Bush adminstration had cut. However, that doesn't mean that I support $231 million bridges to nowhere in Alaska.

Could you please point out where any of what you said has ANYTHING to do with what angus said?

[Jake]

LOL, angus just kicked ass. That may be the best post ever written on this forum.

[dazzleman]

LOL, angus just kicked ass. That may be the best post ever written on this forum.

^^^^^^^

angus is the man!

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I never had a problem with neccessary spending like the hurricane and flood money for New Orleans that the Bush adminstration had cut. However, that doesn't mean that I support $231 million bridges to nowhere in Alaska.

Could you please point out where any of what you said has ANYTHING to do with what angus said?

It was obviously a response to this sentence.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

 
 

[KEmperor]

Levee repairs were faked in a Bush photo op. Words fail me that the President would interfere with the actual relief effort to get himself a photo op.

http://landrieu.senate.gov/~landrieu/releases/05/2005903E12.html

intelligent words fail you regularly.  you have a pretty louisiana avatar?  you ever been to louisiana?  have you ever waited inside for a hurricane to pass over?  you ever set down with a bunch of poor illiterate folks who smell and look so differently than you that you aren't quite sure what to say to them?  do you ever know what the f uck you are talking about?   

"this government is not my government" you say.  when you grow a pair of balls as big as the people who laid down their lives in insurrection to give you a country, you can say that with dignity.

Bush has a pile of sh**t heaped on him during his presidency.  even his predecessor, whom I respect and who probably took office while you were still in diapers, will tell you that.  it isn't words that fail you, it's the capacity to use them intelligently.   First, there was nothing "fake" about his photo opportunity.  Thousands of US citizens (he is the head of state, in case you've forgotten) have perished of a natural disaster.  Secondly, Mr. Nagen, the mayor of New Orleans, was very clear that after his meeting with the President, he was assured that the president had a greater understanding of the current needs of the people of New Orleans.  Third, Ms. Landrieu is hanging on, politically, by a thread, and will attempt to use, as you do, this natural disaster, in a politically expedient way to further her own career.  If it happens to be the case that she can affix the blame of 18th century engineering on her political opponents in order to make her look good by comparison, she will.  This is what politicians do.

I don't exactly understand the source of your bitterness, but you seriously need help, you sick bastard.  I needn't remind you that YOU were among those who bitched and whined about money constantly being transferred from the "blue" states to the "red" states.  (the majority of these whiners were democrats.  very odd, since the democrats are the ones who claim to be "liberals")  And now, you are bitching because money isn't being transferred from the "blue" to the "red" states fast enough. 

people are dying of disease and starvation, IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, and a perusal of this forum tells me your immediate reaction is to assess how well you can use it to for your own party's gain.  you'll make a good lawyer one day.  that is, if your apparently delicous foot and your inability to discriminate between legitimate news sources and propaganda doesn't keep you out of law school.

Very well said Angus.

[J. J.]

Levee repairs were faked in a Bush photo op. Words fail me that the President would interfere with the actual relief effort to get himself a photo op.

http://landrieu.senate.gov/~landrieu/releases/05/2005903E12.html

intelligent words fail you regularly.  you have a pretty louisiana avatar?  you ever been to louisiana?  have you ever waited inside for a hurricane to pass over?  you ever set down with a bunch of poor illiterate folks who smell and look so differently than you that you aren't quite sure what to say to them?  do you ever know what the f uck you are talking about?   

"this government is not my government" you say.  when you grow a pair of balls as big as the people who laid down their lives in insurrection to give you a country, you can say that with dignity.

Bush has a pile of sh**t heaped on him during his presidency.  even his predecessor, whom I respect and who probably took office while you were still in diapers, will tell you that.  it isn't words that fail you, it's the capacity to use them intelligently.   First, there was nothing "fake" about his photo opportunity.  Thousands of US citizens (he is the head of state, in case you've forgotten) have perished of a natural disaster.  Secondly, Mr. Nagen, the mayor of New Orleans, was very clear that after his meeting with the President, he was assured that the president had a greater understanding of the current needs of the people of New Orleans.  Third, Ms. Landrieu is hanging on, politically, by a thread, and will attempt to use, as you do, this natural disaster, in a politically expedient way to further her own career.  If it happens to be the case that she can affix the blame of 18th century engineering on her political opponents in order to make her look good by comparison, she will.  This is what politicians do.

I don't exactly understand the source of your bitterness, but you seriously need help, you sick bastard.  I needn't remind you that YOU were among those who bitched and whined about money constantly being transferred from the "blue" states to the "red" states.  (the majority of these whiners were democrats.  very odd, since the democrats are the ones who claim to be "liberals")  And now, you are bitching because money isn't being transferred from the "blue" to the "red" states fast enough. 

people are dying of disease and starvation, IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY, and a perusal of this forum tells me your immediate reaction is to assess how well you can use it to for your own party's gain.  you'll make a good lawyer one day.  that is, if your apparently delicous foot and your inability to discriminate between legitimate news sources and propaganda doesn't keep you out of law school.

Very well said Angus.

Agreed. 

[??????????]

Good one angus!!

[angus]

I'm sorry, that outburst was childish.  I just see state, municipal, and federal agencies "blaming" each other.  As though hurricanes even know of the existence of governments.  And yes, politicians of all stripes will exploit the situation.  Bush among them.  Landrieu as well.  Still, we should not claim to share the frustrations of those who really are now homeless and hungry.  We can help.  I'd suggest that the effort you are putting into impugning the government can be more effectively used going door to door in your neighborhood collecting money for ARC, clothing for Salvation Army.  If you really are as concerned for these poor, black, unwashed and now-homeless Southerners as you claim to be.

[John Dibble]

I'm sorry, that outburst was childish.

No angus, it wasn't - it was a well deserved, thought out, and valid criticism.

[angus]

Well, it's not that there's no validity in Jfern's criticism.  In fact, a recent University of Colorado Boulder study found that in a presidential election year, there are twice as many federally declared disasters than in other years.  And this study looked at many decades, and they found that the photo-op mentality applies to Republicans and Democrats, Presidents and other elected officials.  Americans love heroes, and there's nothing more apealing to politicians than comforting victims of natural disasters with promises of resources.  And any campaign advisor worth his weight in mosquito-infested franco-redneck sewage would be on the horn telling Landrieu to try to guarantee her next election victory by shifting blame.  And Bush's advisors are telling him to make it easier on his hand-picked successor by doing the same.  But, my point is that the hypocrisy of jfern playing the same games that he is accusing the politicians of should not go unnoticed.  In fact, many posters here are exploiting the misery of people to try to further the ends of their own favorite group.  And that's rife with hypocrisy, since those same posters are quick to accuse the opposition party.  (And I think both Republicans and Democrats are doing this.  I think third party folks and swing voters may be more comfortable to speak about this openly, John.)  And if we're going to claim to be informed observers, we shouldn't act like we're just figuring out the game.  Especially when it is clear that propaganda, both the kind that comes from the democrats and the kind that comes from the republicans, is something jfern obviously understands and responds to in a very predictable manner. 

You can expect the Mayor of New Orleans, for example, to be incredibly frustrated, and lash out at the State of Louisiana, the federal government, whomever he can.  Part of it's politically motivated, but part of it is just human nature.  It's not unlike the Cindy Sheehan thing.  She's grieving.  Now, not only for the loss of her son, but for the divorce from her husband who's apparently had enough of her publicity, for the estrangement from her other, still living, son, who clearly doesn't want all the publicity, from aunts and uncles who just want her to get on with grieving and come home.  But, the fact is, we all grieve in our own way.  Any psychologist will tell you that her crusade is just one of many steps in the path of grievance.  Unorthodox, yes, but not unnatural.  And half of the members of this forum are calling her a total bitch, and the other half are calling her a hero.  In fact, they're all exploiting her.  And you should realize that none of those five thousand people who followed her to "support" her in crawford are helping her psychologically.  And none of those five thousand pro-war antidemonstrators are helping her either.  Nor are they helping the war effort.  They are claiming empathy, in many cases, that they just don't have.  (Albeit those who have lost children may certainly understand more of what she's going through than you or I.  I certainly don't want my son being shot at in a desert, but that's certainly irrelevant to her psychological state.)  Eventually, she'll have to come to grips.  She'll have a long cry.  She'll move on.  But each of us, whether "for" or "against" her efforts, have done little to help her.

Same goes for this hurricane.  When I see the good people of Columbus rolling up their sleeves to help, I immediately recognize their motivation.  I hear people 'round here bitching about the government as well.  Lots of them.  "Why didn't the army force those people to evacuate?"  "Why didn't the government DO SOMETHING?"  There are the whiners.  There are the helpers.  They are not the same people.  Seriously.  I see the volunteers working hard.  I see the complainers complaining.  I never see anyone doing both.  I conclude that the former and the latter are simply different groups of people.  Not that one is intrinsically superior to the other, but it's a paradox indeed that those who complain the loudest are often guilty of the same verbal exploitation that they claim offends them.

One last point.  Take a long look at the ancient confucian legends of Gun and Yu.  We, collectively, as a society, are taking the path of Gun.  And it's not serving us well.  One year after the great midwest floods of 1993, St. Louis developers were building huge cookier-cutter upper-middle income houses on the very land that was under water a year before.  Maybe it's time to try to follow the wisdom of Yu.  Not unlike what the Dutch, for example, are experimenting with in their quest to maintain a city below sea level.  Katrina won't be the last hurricane to hit this area.  And it may not be the strongest.  Maybe it is time to rethink the arrogant idea that we are, or should even try to be, stronger than Mother Nature.  N'awlins can be rebuilt.  But the 17th-century French technology that only exacerbated the situation over the centuries isn't the way to do it.  Unfortunately, the national guard only does what our elected officials tell them to.  And, more unfortunately, the elected officials can only hear the whiners, not the helpers.

[Ben.]

I have to say that if I was Landrieu I would be p*ssed

As I’ve said in the past, the Department of Homeland Security, the Mayor of New Orleans and to a lesser extent the Louisiana state authorities where to, at least, some extent responsible for the severity and magnitude of this crisis, while both Bush and Blanco seem to be reaching to this with dignity and humility but at the same time their also doing what they can to alleviate the situation as quickly as possible. This, as I’ve said before, is in stark contrast to the Mayor of New Orleans or seems to be intent of blaming anyone but himself.

As for Landrieu, she is a rock IMHO and has been doing all she could, many of her own family have suffered in this catastrophe and the city she grew up in is some a lagoon for crying out loud! She is no doubt exhausted and in need of rest right now, but she's understandably mad about whats happened.

 As I said before both Blanco and Bush have, after poor preparation and a lacklusta start begun to get to grips with the situation, all this “incident” does is cheapen all the good that Bush has done since the catastrophe… who ever’s idea it was need firing, and now!         

[angus]

This is what I'm talking about.  No, sir, I must respectfully disagree.  This magnitude of this was due to two things:  meteorological forces that are beyond our control, and the fact that for several hundred years we've been busy building levees that stave off the natural deposit of silt along the banks of the river and in shorelines.  The latter has caused wildlife habitat destruction and erosion beyond our practical ability to repair.  The mississippi for at least five decades has wanted to revert back to its natural course, the Atchafalaya, but because of tourism and political demands, the mississippi is forced, by army corps of engineer projects, through New Orleans.  What would New Orleans be without Old Man River, after all?  This is a problem in addition to the artificial levees which cause erosion.  The swamplands south of the city which existed for several million years beginning in about the mid Triassic Period, has, over just the last few hundred years, eroded.  The very levees meant to make New Orleans inhabitable have also caused the lands south of their to disappear.  This contributed to the strength of the storm as it passed over.

Blanco is not a god.  Bush is not a god.  They cannot be expected to snap their fingers and "make it all go away."  Yes, the relief efforts were a bit disorganized, and hindered by the fact that CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and others repetitiously played "looting" footage and propagated exaggerated stories of rape and danger, scaring off potential rescuers.  But, hurricanes will come.  They'll come again.  The best bet is to work with, not against, nature. 

[Storebought]

This is what I'm talking about.  No, sir, I must respectfully disagree.  This magnitude of this was due to two things:  meteorological forces that are beyond our control, and the fact that for several hundred years we've been busy building levees that stave off the natural deposit of silt along the banks of the river and in shorelines.  The latter has caused wildlife habitat destruction and erosion beyond our practical ability to repair.  The mississippi for at least five decades has wanted to revert back to its natural course, the Atchafalaya, but because of tourism and political demands, the mississippi is forced, by army corps of engineer projects, through New Orleans.  What would New Orleans be without Old Man River, after all?  This is a problem in addition to the artificial levees which cause erosion.  The swamplands south of the city which existed for several million years beginning in about the mid Triassic Period, has, over just the last few hundred years, eroded.  The very levees meant to make New Orleans inhabitable have also caused the lands south of their to disappear.  This contributed to the strength of the storm as it passed over.

Blanco is not a god.  Bush is not a god.  They cannot be expected to snap their fingers and "make it all go away."  Yes, the relief efforts were a bit disorganized, and hindered by the fact that CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and others repetitiously played "looting" footage and propagated exaggerated stories of rape and danger, scaring off potential rescuers.  But, hurricanes will come.  They'll come again.  The best bet is to work with, not against, nature. 

Commenting on that last line, Hurricane Maria has already formed in the mid-Atlantic. Not sure on its course, though

[??????????]

I wouldn't worry about Maria at all.