You people are filled with nothing but hate

[J. J.]

I had an e-mail from a friend in Baton Rouge who said that that everything has been orderly and well run.

I rise to the defense of Scoonie and even MissCatholic.  There are grounds for legitimate criticism at all levels, but Jfern makes stuff up.

[The Dowager Mod]

The initial post was just as hate filled as anything JFern or anyone else has posted.
Have you bashed those on the far right who are celebrating the destuction of a great city because it was "sinful"?

[J. J.]

The initial post was just as hate filled as anything JFern or anyone else has posted.
Have you bashed those on the far right who are celebrating the destuction of a great city because it was "sinful"?

I did, here:

All those old people on dialysis are gay?!!  I never would have thought it!!!  ;-)

Seriously, this is a prime example of blaming the victim.  It's sick, and frankly a lot sicker than being gay (if being gay is sick).

Ah, if God's punishing gays, why doesn't he send a typhoon to San Francisco and a hurricane to Fire Island!!!

I not only called it sick, but I made fun of those people saying it!

[Sam Spade]

Alas, this is what I feared would happen and will undoubtedly grow more ludicrous and hateful by the day.  I'm just wondering whether anyone as of yet realizes how ridiculous all this has become.

As far as my feelings on the matter so far, they are best reflected in the posts by J.J. and Ben. 

[The Duke]

The initial post was just as hate filled as anything JFern or anyone else has posted.
Have you bashed those on the far right who are celebrating the destuction of a great city because it was "sinful"?

I didn't know anyone had said that, but it is very sick to say that.

[12th Doctor]

This goes out to the jferns, the scoonies, the miss catholics.  And it goes out to all the liberals who feel the same way but lack the guts to say it.  And it goes out to everyone outside the Forum who loves DU, Kos, and Dean.  You people are sickening, and are filled witho nothing but hate.

Americans have wroked for 200 years to build a civil society, and you sniveling bastards are trying to tear it all down.  And why?  Just to get Bush.  Because you couldn't beat him at the ballot box and you don't have the votes to impeach.  You've tried forging documents, you've tried name calling, you've tried pinning Abu Ghraib on him, and you've sicked defunct ambassadors and grieving moms on him.  It has been an endless stream of attacks, meritless, thoughtless, and yes, hateful attacks.

When an American loses their job, dies in war, has their house wiped out by a hurricane, you rush to jump on Bush.  Meanwhile, decent people rush to help out regardless of whether they're Republican or Democrat.  Decent people rush to help.

I've not been the President's best friend here or off line.  I've had many disagreements on key issues.  But I've always tried to keep my attacks on George W. Bush above the belt, stickng to policy, and only attacking where the facts were on my side.  I hold that same standard to my attacks on Democrats, trying to stay away from invective, steering clear of conpsiracy theories.  And I've certainly never suggested, as one poster here did in another thread, that national Democratic politicians were taking personal delight in the deaths of Americans anywhere.

I want to single out some Democrats and liberals here who haven't indulged in this, because I certainly don't want to paint all Democrats in a corner with jfern and scoonie.  People like Alcon, Al, True Democrat, Emsworth, and so many more there's no time to name them have been big enough and mature enough to stand in solidarity with the people affected by the disaster in Louisiana and Mississppi.  But I'm afraid that most Democrats are not as intelligent, fair, or informed as so many here.  On the street I see most Democrats are hate filled, people twisted by anger, without respect for the office of the President of the United States.  Most Democrats are more a miss catholic than they are a Justice Ben.

Thread after thread, devoted to blaming the president for the weather!  Literally blaming the President for natural disasters, as if signing Kyoto would undo hundreds of years of carbon emissions and cool the oceans down so there won't be hurricanes any more!  The President is the  first to declare a disaster area before a storm makes landfall, and he's accused of sitting around doing nothing while Americans die!  This is lie filled, hateful rhetoric.  Its not that this kind of nonsense has never happenned before in America, its just never happenned on such a scale to such an extreme.

Btw, the national Weather Service says that there are no more cat 4 and cat 5 hurricanes today than any other recent decade, and fewer than when hurricanes peaked in the 1940s (Did Republicans blame FDR for hurricanes?  I pretty sure they didn't.)

Again, thank you to all the Democrats who've not resorted to this kind of bullsh**t, and shame on those who have, you hate filled little ers.

BOOLA BOOLA!!!

[The Duke]

BOOLA BOOLA!!!

?

[Blue Rectangle]

I have a lot of respect for the way Scoonie chose to refrain from partisan attacks.

I have before attacked Scoonie for a statement that was actually made by jfern, so I understand how mistakes like this are sometimes made.

John's points on how some have behaved are on target, but he should apologize for wrongfully accusing Scoonie of this behavior.

[Jake]

Scoonie's been fine for the last few days. He was just as active on Tuesday and Wednesday with the anti-Bush crap as jfraud was.

[Everett]

Threads like these actually worsen the hate. Please ensure that you have the facts straight before accusing certain people of making such statements.

For now:

[opebo]

John Ford, it is the GOP that has been destroying America's civil society for the last 25 years or so, not liberals.

[12th Doctor]

BOOLA BOOLA!!!

?

It is a WASPy way of saying "Yea!!!" 

[The Duke]

For all those who've jumped on me for including scoonie here, take a gander.

Ridiculous, MODU.

Do you mean to tell me that greatly decreasing the funding for flood control in NO and not having an adequate plan to get people out of these areas is blameless? The adminstration was nowhere close to ready for the hurricane and hundreds of needless deaths will occure because of it.

I never said it was entirely his fault or anything like that, I am saying that the administrations ignorance will be the cause of many additional deaths.

You mean a 44% cut in spending for flood disaster in NO when everyone knew it was a serious threat was moronic??

I agree with you.

Hundreds more will die because of the governments lack of preparation concerning the hurriance. His ignorance towards building up and stengthening the levees also caused hundreds of deaths.

This president is the biggest failure of our times. Bush loyalists will make excuses and call me names, as it is easier than facing reality.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0831-04.htm

"New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars."

These quotes and others like it can be found in Scoonie's list of previous posts.  He was fully on board with the jfern bandwagon of blaming Bush for death in Louisiana until he (thankfully) changed his position and pledged to end all involvement in partisan bickering.  That pledge did not occur until September 2, four days after Katrina hit.

I'm in. No partisan rhetoric stuff from me for a week.

In response to being called on for his earlier nonsense, he has responded with something a touch short of civility.

Sorry, I thought it from you.  It's was Loony Scoonie.  My apologies.

Don't you have an abortion clinic to bomb or a braindead woman to rescue?

This goes out to the jferns, the scoonies, the miss catholics.  And it goes out to all the liberals who feel the same way but lack the guts to say it. 

Your arrogance is truly amazing.

I said on a previous thread three days ago that I wouldn't politicize the hurriance, and I haven't.

You don't know a damn thing about me. You are just another anti-American egomaniac who thinks all dissent should be stifled. 

It is true that he took a no partisanship pledge, but as I've proven, that did not ahppen until four days after Katrina made landfall.  Until then, he was just like jfern.

[Jake]

When has J. J. supported bombing abortion clinics?

[J. J.]

When has J. J. supported bombing abortion clinics?

He obviously never read my posts on Schiavo either.  Typical of the Loony Scoonie the Loony Leftist.

[Jake]

You were the one attacking Ford on his position if I remember correctly.

[J. J.]

You were the one attacking Ford on his position if I remember correctly.

Well, actually, he was attacking me.  :-)

I strongly disagreed with the Federal government getting involved, and supported the legality of the court's action.

The autopsy tended to support my position.

I was even critical of Frist's comments (and applauded his change on stem cell research).

[angus]

Preach it, John.  Move over, Al Sharpton.  John Ford's coming.

actually, I agree with all of what you wrote.  it's all rather frustrating.  well, c'est la vie, as they say down south.  (well, actually I think it's "c'est la vie, y'all")  this is a forum for analysis, after all.  sometimes people are bitter.  sometimes they're hateful.  and they view everything through those bitter lenses.  and you have to pick out the interesting, intelligent parts through the fog of hubris.  like looking for undigested corn kernels in feces.  the native peoples of the americas called that "second harvest" and it kept them alive through some lean years.  just think of jfern's posts as Second Harvest.  ocassionally, if you dig through the dung long enough, you'll find some prescient, insightful analysis, because, for all his faults, he's sincere.  (I'm not sure you can lump him in with the likes of miss catholic.)

Now, I'm not full of hate, or anything else just yet.  but I will be.  the old lady's preparing a feast.  spinach/mushroom & carrot quiche.  spicy chicken curry with vegetables.  soya bean and ground pork, stirfried with garlic, green onion and oyster sauce.  fried rice with egg, chicken, mushroom and I'm not sure what else.  She has four, count 'em, four kinds of mushrooms out on the counter right now.  and a bunch of other stuff too.  my job's to make the crust for the quiche and mix and bake the raisin & coconut macaroons, then get the hell out of the kitchen and out of the way.  I'd better get crackin'

Oh, and for tonight's beverage I scored some chateau Lauribert côtes-du-Rhône.   2003.  yeah, that's right.  The '03.  mmmmm.  mmmm.  mmmm.  bon apetit!  I'm missing one arm and one leg, but it'll be tasty.  See youze later.  Or, as they say in the Deepest South:

A  bien tot, mes amis.  (alternatively "mes amis" is replaced with "y'all" as in "a bien tot, y'all")

bon apetit, y'all 

[12th Doctor]

Anyway, now that I have time for a serious response, I will provide one.  I too am quite dismayed by the attitudes taken by some of the Democrats in regards to... well almost any issues.  If something happens that is unfortunate, it must be Bush's fault.  Nevermind that there is a federalist structure in place that purposfully disperses power between all governments and government officials or that somethings simply cannot be helped or prevents, Bush is directly to blame for everything.  As I mentioned to someone a few days ago, this is taking on the aura of a "Blame Hoover" mentality.

At the sametime, as John mentioned, thier attitude is destroying the climate of, once, civil discourse in this country.  Democrats want to blame this on Republicans because the Reagan revolution "divided America".  Well, first off, the 1980, 1984 and 1988 Presidential Elections maps would seem to disagree with this idea.  Second, it was the Democrats who went extreme first.  Don't believe me?

Compare the "Liberal" scores given by the Congressional Quarterly for 5 outgoing and 5 incoming Democrat members of the House Appropriations Committee for 1962-63

Outgoing Memebers

Sidney Yates (IL) 81
Alfred Santagelo (NY) 76
Don Magnuson (WA) 75
Hugh Alexander (NC) 14
Dale Alford (AR) -2

Average 49

Note: none of these members were defeat by Republicans.  They are retired willingly

Incoming Members:

Edward Finnegan (IL) 87
Robert Giaimo (CT) 76
Charles Joelson (NJ) 76
Julia Hansen (WA) 74
Joseph Addabbo (NY) 73

Average 77


The same trend is seen in almost all important committees in both the House and the Senate up until now, whereas, those conservative leaning Democrats who remain are reduced to the lesser committees from 1962-present.

No such trend is expressed or even slightly evident when looking at the Republican side.  In fact, it was Newt's view that moderate Republicans should be given the most important committee assingments, as a way of keeping their seats.

Now, some people might say "so what".  But this is reflective of a general attitude in the Democrat Party that started long before Reagan was even serious about running for President.  This doesn't even mention that. over the past 50 years, the largest Presidential election cooalitions have always been Republican ones.  Given that, there is a much better case for Republicans being uniters over the past 50 years, and Democrats generally being dividers.  In fact, without Johnson in 64, the totally of Republican electoral tallies over the 50 years would be astronomically higher than that of the Democrats.

Just as a personal example that ties into this theme, on Friday, I had someone tell me that "George W. Bush did not do enough to stop this disator from happening".  I found that rather odd as, the morning following the hurricane, when early news reports told us that the damage was not as bad as we had all feared, this very same person has said "It's a good thing that we didn't make too much of this.  It would have wasted a lot of money and probably would have convince people not to listen to the warnings in the future".  Hypocracy, plain and simple.

When was the last time the United States was ever prepared for a disastor like this?  When was the last time we have even had one?  Not much can be done when we only have a few days to respond.  And what would it really have changed, anyway?  It is Red Cross policy not to be is a disastor zone when a the trouble is occuring, which sounds like pretty smart policy to me.  If aide stations were in the path of the brunt on the storm, they could become victims, just as easily.  What if the National Gaurd and the Red Cross had been in New Orleans, ready to go?  They would have been wiped out two, and we would have lost more human lives and millions of dollars in equipment, equipment that we are now using to try to save lives.  So Jesse Jackson and Miss Nomo and Jfern and the Democrat cooalition (much of present company excluded) can say what they want.  The fact is, no President could have done any better.

Sometimes, I honestly wish Bush was not President, and the Democrats were in.  With, going on 16 years of Democrat rule the media and average idiots would have no one but them to blame.  But then, I remember, it wouldn't matter anyway, because had a Democrat done everything Bush has done, he would be praised to the moon over what a wonderful job he has done and Dennis Hastert would be villified for existing.

Anyway, John, get used to it, because I have learned that things quite simply aren't going to get better.  True, there are haters on our side, but no matter what we ever do, there will exist that 30-40% of the Democrat base that hates the fact that we breath and will do anything they can to discredit guys like you, me and Bush (who deserves constructive critizism on many things, to be sure) even if it means tearing down the country as a whole.

[12th Doctor]

P.S.  This forum, in particular, has a lot of really good people who are Democrats.  Emsworth, Al, Alcon and True Dem, as you had mentioned, in particular, I think deserve our respect and admiration for filling this role.  Once again, there are people not on that list who also deserve praise.

I think that, one of the good things about this forum is that, in the time I have been here, it has had a moderating effect on responable people who post here on a regular basis.  And, if there is one meaningful thing that has come out of fantasy government, it is the expirience of being in the same party will people who would normally, because of the current American political structure, be on the other side of the room.

That being said, there are plenty of people out there on forums such as DU and even here, who seem to have made hatred of everyone who does not think as they do a way of life.

[The Duke]

P.S. This forum, in particular, has a lot of really good people who are Democrats. Emsworth, Al, Alcon and True Dem, as you had mentioned, in particular, I think deserve our respect and admiration for filling this role. Once again, there are people not on that list who also deserve praise.

I'd like to add Gabu to that list,  He deserves special praise for being one of if not the first to posters link to agencies where you can donate money for relief.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

P.S. This forum, in particular, has a lot of really good people who are Democrats. Emsworth, Al, Alcon and True Dem, as you had mentioned, in particular, I think deserve our respect and admiration for filling this role. Once again, there are people not on that list who also deserve praise.

I'd like to add Gabu to that list,  He deserves special praise for being one of if not the first to posters link to agencies where you can donate money for relief.

Has no one noticed my signature?

[angus]

I noticed it, man.  that's why I said all those nice things about you.

whoa, I'm stuffed.  Like a thanksgiving turkey.  bloated.  like a franco-american corpse making its way down Chartres Street in the French Quarter.  (how's that for sensitivity.  Me and Denny Hastert aren't very good at that, unfortunately.)  so my Bangladeshi colleague and his family joined us for dinner.   He and I were the only two in the crowd drinking, so we kept the damage down to 2.5 bottles.  So at some point he starts in with the "Oh, man, you people really are spoiled.  We're from the third world, you know, and Bangladesh is pretty much ALL flood plain."  So I had to explain the delicate socio-economic complexity and political manoeuvering behind all the news associated with this story.  He seemed to appreciate that.  But my brain surely is tired.  He pretty much thinks that they ought to rebuild at another site, if at all.  I commented that the Maya were like that.  Anyway, it was interesting to hear the point of view from a well-educated and avid cable news watcher from the third world who now lives in the USA.  His position was that it was very surprising that a rich country like the USA wouldn't have had some mechanism by which food and supplies, water at the very least, might have been dropped from helicopters to the superdome.  And somehow expected me to be able to explain why it was not.  That, and how nice it is that folks in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh have all the telemarketing jobs in US credit card companies nowadays.  Interesting conversation, to say the least.  And good food.  And good french wine, we agreed.  Not so good french levee technology and city site choice, we also agreed.

[The Dowager Mod]

And for the record this "hate filled" Liberal gave 2000 dollars to the red cross the day after the hurricane and i certainly don't care if it feeds a liberal or a conservative.

[12th Doctor]

P.S. This forum, in particular, has a lot of really good people who are Democrats. Emsworth, Al, Alcon and True Dem, as you had mentioned, in particular, I think deserve our respect and admiration for filling this role. Once again, there are people not on that list who also deserve praise.

I'd like to add Gabu to that list,  He deserves special praise for being one of if not the first to posters link to agencies where you can donate money for relief.

Yeah, Gabu, of course.