Europe becoming majority-Muslim

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I vote never. While I'd be concerned about Muslim immigration if I lived there, people who argue Europe will become majority Muslim every are using very bad statistics, quite similar to arguing Hawaii will vote Republican in about 10 years or so based on the change from 2000-2004

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Never. Anyone who thinks it'll happen is an idiot, hysterically paranoid or both.
Not like there's a lot of Muslim immigration these days anyway...

[Blerpiez]

Probably never.  If it happens, it'll be due to mass conversions and not to immigration.  It is possible for Islam to gain popularity somehow, but not to double the population of Europe through immigration only by one group.

[phk]

No.

I even predict that future desendants of Muslim immigrants to become secular actually after a few generations.

[minionofmidas]

After the rapture.

[phk]

British Bangladeshi's need to definitely sort themselves out..

[freek]

No.

I even predict that future desendants of Muslim immigrants to become secular actually after a few generations.

They are already secularizing. Most young muslims only see a mosque from the inside on religious holidays.

[afleitch]

No.

I even predict that future desendants of Muslim immigrants to become secular actually after a few generations.

They are already secularizing. Most young muslims only see a mosque from the inside on religious holidays.

That i'm afraid from experience is a naive assumption to make. Many young Muslims are becoming more politicised and insular in comparison to their parents generation.

[phk]

No.

I even predict that future desendants of Muslim immigrants to become secular actually after a few generations.

They are already secularizing. Most young muslims only see a mosque from the inside on religious holidays.

That i'm afraid from experience is a naive assumption to make. Many young Muslims are becoming more politicised and insular in comparison to their parents generation.

British Bangladeshis are worse than British Pakistanis in this regard.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Next friday.

[DanielX]

If trends continue they way they are regardless of any changes (they almost never do), then 50 years, with some nations going majority-Muslim in 20-30.

Of course, by then there will be changes. After all, Billions of starving Chinese never invaded Russia...

[dazzleman]

No.

I even predict that future desendants of Muslim immigrants to become secular actually after a few generations.

They are already secularizing. Most young muslims only see a mosque from the inside on religious holidays.

That i'm afraid from experience is a naive assumption to make. Many young Muslims are becoming more politicised and insular in comparison to their parents generation.

I agree.  Have we already forgotten the London bombings, committed by alientated and hateful British-born muslims?

The muslim birthrate is much higher than the ethnic European birthrate.  This is not a problem if muslims assimilate and become part of society.  But if they don't, and they don't appear to be, Europe will end up with, at the very least, a large alienated minority.  I don't know if muslims will ever be a majority in Europe, but they don't to be a majority to cause a lot of problems.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Have we already forgotten the London bombings, committed by alientated and hateful British-born muslims?

They weren't really alienated as such. There's a lot of things very strange about them; especially there backgrounds (relatively well off families, one had a steady job, a new family and lived in Dewsbury (where the Muslim population is heavily Sufi and Islamic extemism basically unknown; several nutty groups set up there and had to shut up shop as no one was interested)... and where they came from as well... three from western Leeds (which has a fairly small Muslim population) the other one from Jamiaca orginally). A lot of stuff about them hasn't been released and I suspect the police have a much clearer picture about them. My guess would be that on trips to Pakistan they spent a lot of time in Karachi rather than Mirpur.
But they don't represent the problems within the Muslim community (and there are problems. Oh yes, there are problems...) anymore than McVeigh represented the problem of white alienation in parts of America.

[dazzleman]

Have we already forgotten the London bombings, committed by alientated and hateful British-born muslims?

They weren't really alienated as such. There's a lot of things very strange about them; especially there backgrounds (relatively well off families, one had a steady job, a new family and lived in Dewsbury (where the Muslim population is heavily Sufi and Islamic extemism basically unknown; several nutty groups set up there and had to shut up shop as no one was interested)... and where they came from as well... three from western Leeds (which has a fairly small Muslim population) the other one from Jamiaca orginally). A lot of stuff about them hasn't been released and I suspect the police have a much clearer picture about them. My guess would be that on trips to Pakistan they spent a lot of time in Karachi rather than Mirpur.
But they don't represent the problems within the Muslim community (and there are problems. Oh yes, there are problems...) anymore than McVeigh represented the problem of white alienation in parts of America.

It's what's strange about them that should cause alarm.  The fact that they're British born, and are not poor, undermines the argument that muslims are assimilating.

I hope you're right that they're not representative of a broad trend among muslims, but I wouldn't be so sure.

[Hitchabrut]

Western Europe within 100 years, Eastern Europe, perhaps never.

[phk]

Have we already forgotten the London bombings, committed by alientated and hateful British-born muslims?

My guess would be that on trips to Pakistan they spent a lot of time in Karachi rather than Mirpur.

Why on earth would they go to Mirpur? They are Punjabi not Kashmiri.

They visited Karachi, Lahore, Faisalabad, Islamabad. (pretty much the same cities I visited 1 year after they did).

Although I did go to Pakistan-controlled Kashmir all the way to the Line of Control in Kashmir.

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As a rule, Muslims that are not doing very well are not recruited actually.

British Bangladeshis are far more ghetto, poor, alienated than thier British Pakistani counterparts, and this is from Al, who says that British Pakistanis are far more moderate than British Pakistanis. But notice how the 7-7 bombers were British Pakistanis with the Jamaican exception.

They look for educated, middle-class Muslims, almost as a rule. Having a degree in engineering, computer science makes one very attractive to a Hizb-ut-Tahrir recruiter.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Why on earth would they go to Mirpur? They are Punjabi not Kashmiri.

Were they? Are you saying that the media misreport things and don't bother to correct them?

[phk]

Why on earth would they go to Mirpur? They are Punjabi not Kashmiri.

Were they? Are you saying that the media misreport things and don't bother to correct them?

Media probably assumed they were from Mirpur, because like 65% of British PAkistanis are from there.

But thier respective families were from Karachi, Faislabad, Rawalpindi.

Rawalpindi is where the Pakistani military catches all the al-Qaeda operatives in thier country. (for some perspective)

[Huckleberry Finn]

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, they will be a large minority, but not the majority.

[Storebought]

Majority Muslim by census: Never

Then again, the Goths and Teutons never comprised more than 20% of the population in any part of the Roman Empire (except Britain) in the late 400s, but we still say that Rome fell to the Goths in 476. Any political domination by Islam will be of the same consquence.