Pacific Legislature Official Thread

[Ebowed]

Wait, so are you arguing against an age of consent altogether?

[Ebowed]

How am I too immature to consent to sex with a 25 yr old (I'm 15)? That just makes no sense.  You cannot group people by age, race, sex, religion, or other meaningless factors.  Being a teenager doesn't mean you can't maturely consider your actions and neither does being a women or being black. 

This is a bit strange cos I remember you arguing that history months based on race are not inherently discriminatory.

Honestly, your argument wouldn't hold up anywhere.  It is pretty much universally agreed that pedophilia is unacceptable; that's why we have an age of consent.  This proposed law actually lowers the age of consent in many cases, as real-life laws that the Pacific are based on are more strict than Peter's proposal.

[Ebowed]

Capital Punishment Abolition Act
1. All forms of capital punishment are hereby outlawed.
2. Persons sentenced to death within the Pacific Region are commuted to life imprisonment.
3. The Pacific Region shall not extradite any person to another region without assurance that he will not be executed.

(Current status of capital punishment is indefinite moratorium)

Reproductive Freedom Act
1. The Pacific Region shall not fund any organization that promotes information which is intentionally false in regards to the psychological and mental health of engaging in sexual relations outside of or before marriage or the effectiveness of condoms and oral contraceptives.
2. Federally approved contraception shall not be denied to any person on the basis of age, sex, or sexual orientation.
3. Any laws criminalizing the use of emergency contraception (the so-called "morning-after pill") are repealed.
4. Any laws criminalizing a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy are repealed.
5. Any laws restricting a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy on the basis of age or marital status are repealed.
6. All hospitals will be required to dispense emergency contraception to victims of rape regardless of the religious affiliation of the hospital or medical care provider.

Marijuana Legalization Act
1. The production, possession, sale, and consumption of marijuana, and of the plant Cannabis sativa, shall be lawful for all individuals (except minors).

[Ebowed]

Capital Punishment Abolition Act:  Aye
Reproductive Freedom Act:  Aye
Marijuana Legalization Act:  Aye

[Ebowed]

I'm pretty sure marijuana is already legal.

The Pacific carries over Arizona's laws on such matters.

[Ebowed]

I'm pretty sure marijuana is already legal.

The Pacific carries over Arizona's laws on such matters.

But marijuana is legal on the federal level.

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Marijuana_Legalization_and_Taxation_Act

Yeah, that serves as a backup for the regions when there's no law in place.  But when we started out marijuana was illegal by default in all of the regions.

[Ebowed]

Republican Party Illegalisation Act:  Nay
Physician-Assisted Suicide Legalisation Act:  Aye
Alcohol Freedom Act:  Aye
Abolishment Of Organised Religion Act:  Nay
New Mexico Regional Transfer Resolution:  Nay

I am very concerned with the "Nay" votes on the reasonable Physician-Assisted Suicide Legalization legislation.  Certainly such a matter of personal liberty is none of the business of the government.

I am also concerned with the way religion is given special priveleges in government, but my support for freedom of speech and belief supercedes this concern.  Additionally, the punishment is far too harsh, and it would harm religions that present no threat to society such as Unitarianism, Buddhism, Secular Humanism, and depending on one's very definition of religion, Atheism.

[Ebowed]

Religious Freedom Act

1. The Pledge of Allegiance is abolished.
2. There shall be no official statement of patriotism, whether recitation is voluntary or involuntary, to be legislated by the Pacific government.
3. All tax benefits and exemptions heralded towards churches and religious institutions are hereby abolished.

Resolution Concerning Currency

1. It is the position of the people of the Pacific region that no currency should designate belief or disbelief in a higher power.

[Ebowed]

Don't worry, I thought the proposals were hilarious.

[Ebowed]

I'm willing to give it a chance, but what protections against falsification are we going to have?

Why would a doctor intentionally, involuntarily kill his patient?  It sounds right out of a lawsuit asking for a nice punitive damages settlement.

Not that I'm disagreeing with protection against falsification.  Just playing devil's advocate.  It's not enough for me to oppose the law, though.

[Ebowed]

New Mexico Regional Transfer Resolution: Nay
Constitutional Amendment on Voter Registration and Voting Rules: Aye
Backup Redistricting Amendment: Aye

[Ebowed]

So let me get this straight.  A 12-year-old girl intentionally gets pregnant, but then gets an abortion because she wanted a boy instead of a girl.

I realize that you disagree on this issue.  That is fine.  There is no need to consider such whacky and near-impossible scenarios such as the one above.  If a 12-year-old got pregnant, I'm not sure the first question on her mind is whether it's a boy or not.  Either way, these decisions - regardless of age - are best left to the woman.  I would prefer that women who seek to gender-select their baby get an abortion instead of attempting infanticide, wouldn't you?  Your comparison to China and India is unnecessary because the Pacific region does not share their sexist views.

My comment regarding religion is not bigoted on anything but belief.  You will note that I absolutely do not support restricting belief including the right to religion and my legislation is not vicious in any sense of the word.  People will still be able to celebrate their religious beliefs as they have always done.  My legislation will not restrict anyone's rights to their freedom of belief, speech, thought, and conscience.

[Ebowed]

and are you going to claim that every abortion, even one done in the third trimester, is not killing a living being?

I never made any such statement.  Are you next going to contend that we should expand such rights to all living beings?

Abortions of mixed-race babies?

Why would a woman who consented to sex with someone from another race get an abortion of a mixed-race fetus?

You can present all sorts of unlikely scenarios.  Third trimester abortions are extremely rare; given that women normally only partake in that tragic solution in the most dire of circumstances, why should we legislate which circumstances are appropriate?  Only a highly small percentage of abortion clinics even perform them, anyway.

That strongly implies that you would support legislation more narrowly-tailored to outlaw only those faiths you deem a 'threat to society'

My main reason for opposing the legislation as stated was that it infringes on freedom of religion and belief.  I do not support any bans on religions and I voted accordingly.  The comments that followed it were personal commentary and not meant to be translated into political causes.  There was no reason to believe that I support such ideas as you imply.

given the bloody history of the Soviet Union the idea that Atheism has never been a "threat to society" is clearly untrue.

Stalin was a nutso dictator who forced a religious belief on his citizens; that's obviously not going to work regardless of the religion.  Either way you make an assumption that atheism is a threat to society because Stalin was atheist, yet you overlook the overwhelming majority of atheists who are good and decent people, and often have stronger moral compasses than anyone else.

For that matter, the very Abolishment of Organized Religion Actitself contradicts your view

Great.  Notice that I voted "NAY" on it.

removal of even neutral expressions such as "In God We Trust" through legislation

It's a resolution, not legislation that will change anything.  And the phrase is not neutral.  What if our money said "In Allah We Trust"?  "In No God We Trust"?  Would you like that?

You cannot utter a word of faith in the public sphere

That is not what the bill does.

And then there is not any recitation of patriotism, even voluntary, allowed?

NO.  Stop trying to read fascism into my bills.  The bill merely removes a government-written statement of patriotism as the federal government did in 2005.  It does not outlaw anything.  ANYTHING.

[Ebowed]

So are you saying that although a fetus is a living being, it has no rights whatsoever then?

Abortion at any stage of the pregnancy ends the life of a living being.  Why are you only focusing on the third trimester?

This view would be a valid reason for abortion under your law - any reason is valid under your law.

Yes, because the law leaves the decision up to the woman.  Her choice does not need to be validated by the public as to whether it's "acceptable" or not.

Your third-trimester abortion position is that of one-tenth of the population!

You know, I don't really care.  The bill passed this legislature, and that's what matters here.

They are rare because they were restricted, and they will become considerably less rare under your law.

Wait, so you think women will wait until they're seven months pregnant to get an abortion now?  Your logic sucks, and it's not even backed up by the statistics.  States with third trimester abortion bans have the same very low rate as those without.  Now, do you honestly think that women remain pregnant as long as they can?  Do you know anything about pregnancy?

Why should the Pacific have banned the death penalty, if not for moral reasons? Why is that different?

There are many reasons to ban the death penalty, including but not limited to moral ones.  I do not necessarily see abortion as immoral; just because you do, remember that not everyone shares the same opinion.  If you have a problem with the way this legislature voted, you are free to propose legislation to change it.

Probably not, but it would be within the right of the government to do so.

Yes, I am aware that it is within the right of a government to establish theocracy.  What exactly is your point?

Nothing but secularism would be allowed in the public sphere.

The public sphere is open to the public and thus religion can be celebrated and displayed by anyone in public.

But if a government shall not be allowed to ask for loyalty to it at all...well, that brings up some interesting questions indeed.

A good government shouldn't need to ask for loyalty with a pre-written statement of support.  If someone truly supports their government, they can write their own "pledge."

You want the government to be able to celebrate faith, yet if the government were to celebrate outright atheism, you would consider this "intrusive secularism", despite desperate attempts to compare atheism to religion whenever possible.  Where is the consistency in this?  If you want the government to celebrate faith so much, why don't you write a bill to bring the caste system to the Pacific?

[Ebowed]

Adoption Bill
1. The government shall establish an Adoption Fund, which will allow persons and couples to adopt children under the age of 5 without incurring cost.
2. No person shall be barred from adopting a child on the basis of their sexual orientation.
3. Public schools are barred from requiring children to find out information about their genetics that may potentially lead to a hidden adoption status from being unveiled.

[Ebowed]

Because all arguments about viability and the like are more pointed at this point - the fetus could clearly survive.

Viability is a point that is always changing because of scientific advances.  It also may vary widely from pregnancy to pregnancy -- it is near impossible to directly code it into law.

And that is a radical opinion.

What exactly is your problem, WMS?  What you consider radical may be perfectly mainstream depending on the exact political beliefs of any certain location.

And if the rate of third trimester abortion bans is so damn low, then why do you insist on keeping them legal?

A desire to keep unnecessary statute out of the law code coupled with a strong scrutiny held towards any "moderate" legislation designed to infringe upon women's rights.

And what are the non-moral reasons to ban the death penalty?

Its lack of effect of a deterrent, its general lack of necessity, its prohibitive cost, the racial and socioeconomic disparity in death row inmates, the chance that an innocent person could be executed, the length of time between the crime and the execution (making possible remorse irrelevant), the arbitrary and uneven manner in which it is applied, etc.

How is allowing a government to express an opinion other than Secular Humanism theocratic?

The government will not be expressing a Secular Humanist opinion, because it will not be establishing an opinion at all.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Reproductive Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Physician-Assisted Suicide Legalisation Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Alcohol Freedom Act is declared null and void.

And replaced with what?  Third trimester abortions are still legal in New Mexico (regardless of whether anyone considers your nullifications valid or not).

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Religious Freedom Act is declared null and void.

Within the boundaries of New Mexico, the Resolution Concerning Currency is declared null and void.

You're so weak that you have to null and void a resolution.  Cool.

Not that it matters, because of neither of those were ever passed by the Pacific Legislature.  You could write an act declaring cheddar cheese to be really great and then nullify it in New Mexico.  It would have about the same effect.

[Ebowed]

Religious Freedom Act: Aye
Resolution Concerning Currency: Aye
Pacific Drug Free Zone Act: Nay
Adoption Bill: Aye
Resolution to resolve the conflict in the Southeastern Pacific Region: Aye

[Ebowed]

Legalization of Prostitution Bill

Section 1: Findings
1. The criminalization of consensual sex in which money is paid for participation in the sex act is a violation of civil liberties.
2. The regulation of legalized brothels will allow for an increase in public safety by mandating tests and protections against sexually transmitted infections.

Section 2: Legalization of Prostitution
1. No law shall exist criminalizing the act of paying for participation in a sex act.

Section 3: Limitations
1. Local governments shall have the right to regulate the prostitution industry, including for health and safety purposes. Such regulations may include, but are not limited to:
    - Requiring use of a registered location while engaging in business (i.e. forbidding 'street work');
    - Requiring mandatory drug and venereal disease tests;
    - Mandating use of contraceptive devices during business activities;
2. Where no local regulations exist as per Clause 2, the following regulations shall be followed:
- All prostitutes shall be required to utilize condoms during vaginal or anal intercourse.
    - Prostitutes shall be required to obtain testing for venereal diseases, including HIV, once a month. If a venereal disease is detected, the prostitute is forbidden from seeing further customers, until and unless the disease is no longer present or is in a noncommunicable stage.
3. The government shall have the right to tax the services given by the prostitution industry in applicable areas.

[Ebowed]

Amendment regarding elections Nay
Legalization of Prostitution Bill Aye

[Ebowed]

Aye

[Ebowed]

Automatic Teller Machine Fees Bill
1. Any bank operating within the Pacific Region shall be prohibited from fining persons using automatic teller machines ('ATMs') for using a machine not associated or approved for use by the user's bank.

Embryonic Stem Cell Research Bill
1. The Pacific Region pledges $10 million to embryonic stem cell research grants effective FY 2008.
2. All regional restrictions on cloning and embyronic stem cell research are repealed.

AIDS Prevention Bill
1. The Pacific Government pledges $10 million towards condom distribution programs effective FY 2008.
2. The Pacific Government pledges $10 million towards needle exchange programs effective FY 2008.
3. The sale of hypodermic needles over-the-counter, without a prescription, is hereby legalized.

Resolution to Express the Sense of the Pacific on Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge Oil Drilling
1. It is the sense of the Pacific Region that oil drilling on the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge should be ended, because it:
a.) Degrades the environment;
b.) Discourages the use of alternative energy sources.
2. The people of the Pacific call on the federal Senate to overturn F.L. 6-21, which authorized the drilling on ANWR.

Pacific Estate Tax Bill
1. The Pacific Region estate tax outlined below becomes effective FY 2008.
2. Each portion of the value of the estate shall be taxed at the following rates, with each rate corresponding to the tax rate on only the portion of the estate that falls in the appointed range:
a) $0-$2,000,000 – 0%
b) $2,000,001-$4,000,000 – 3%
c) $4,000,001-$9,000,000 – 5%
d) $9,000,001-$15,500,000 – 7.5%
e) $15,500,001-$22,000,000 – 10%
f) $22,000,001-$45,000,000 – 12.5%
g) $45,000,001-$75,000,000 – 15%
h) $75,000,001-$100,000,000 – 18.5%
i) $100,000,001 and above – 25%
j) Farmers' non-residential property shall be taxed at 50% the normal tax rate.

Science in the Classrooms Bill
Section 1: Human Sexuality
No funds from the Pacific government shall go towards any sex education curriculum that promotes any of the following beliefs as based on scientific evidence:
1.) the trait of homosexuality or bisexuality is an entirely conscious choice and/or is strange or unnatural.
2.) the participation in homosexual sex acts is an unnatural act observed only in humans.
3.) the proper use of contraceptive devices including but not limited to condoms is grossly ineffective in preventing pregnancy or sexually transmitted infections.
4.) engaging in sexual activity before marriage with proper precautions is dangerous.
5.) males and females should limit themselves to careers which have historically been associated with masculine and feminine roles, respectively.
6.) the surgical or medical termination of a pregnancy causes, or is in any way linked to, the development of breast cancer.
7.) pregnancy begins at any point before the implantation of a fertilized egg into the uterus.
Section 2: Origins
No funds from the Pacific government shall go towards any scientific education curriculum that promotes any of the following beliefs as based on scientific evidence:
1.) the status of biological evolution as a scientific theory is somehow different or set apart from that of other scientific theories such as gravity or relativity.
2.) fossil evidence for biological macroevolution is largely inaccurate or misinterpreted by mainstream scientists, or presents a picture that contradicts with biological evolutionary theory.
3.) radioactive carbon dating is always inaccurate or scientifically unreliable.
4.) the age of the earth is less than ten thousand years.
5.) the origins of the universe and of life on earth are scientifically explained by religious texts or creeds.
6.) the complexity of certain types of life on earth are of such a magnitude that they present valid evidence for that of a higher power or "intelligent designer."
7.) creation theories are testable by the scientific method.
8.) the Second Law of Thermodynamics contradicts the Big Bang.
Section 3: Cannabis
No Pacific funds shall be directed toward any drug prevention program that disseminates any of the following beliefs, and/or presents them as being established on scientific evidence.
1. Marijuana use fails to alleviate symptoms associated with terminal illness (e.g. cancer).
2. Recreational use of marijuana invariably leads to use of "hard" drugs (the so-called "gateway effect").

[Ebowed]

What are you signing?

bills need 3 signatures or the governor's signature to advance to the ballot

[Ebowed]

Automatic Teller Machine Fees Bill:  Aye
Embryonic Stem Cell Research Bill:  Aye
AIDS Prevention Bill:  Aye
Resolution to Express the Sense of the Pacific on Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge Oil Drilling:  Aye
Pacific Estate Tax Bill:  Aye
Science in the Classrooms Bill:  Aye

[Ebowed]

Minimum Wage Raise Bill
1. The minimum wage shall be raised by $0.50, to $7.50, effective two months after the passage of this act.

Racial Profiling Bill
1. No branch of law enforcement under Pacific jurisdiction shall be permitted to use the practice of racial profiling in attempting to catch or determine suspects.
2. "Racial profiling" is defined as the use of selecting someone for targeting solely on the basis of their skin color, race, language, or nationality being perceived as more likely to commit a crime than someone of a different skin color, race, language, or nationality.

LSD Legalization Bill
1. The possession and consumption of LSD (also known as lysergic acid diethylamide, LSD-25, or "acid"), a non-addictive semisynthetic psychedelic drug, shall be lawful for anyone who is 18 years or older.
2. This act shall not be interpreted as to decriminalize driving under the influence of LSD.

Public Services Bill
1. No person in the Pacific Region shall be denied access to public services, including public education, on the basis of immigration status.

Environmental Standards Bill
1. Any class of automobile listed below produced or sold within the Pacific Region must adhere to the following CAFE standards:
     a. Cars: 40 mpg by 2009, 50 mpg by 2011, 60 mpg by 2014
     b. Light Trucks: 30 mpg by 2009, 40 mpg by 2011, 46 mpg by 2014
     c. SUV: A standard of 26 mpg is instituted effective 2009, 40 mpg by 2011, 52 mpg by 2014

Anti-Discrimination Bill
1. All anti-discrimination laws applicable within the Pacific Region relating to housing, employment, and public accomodations shall be amended to also include sexual orientation as an illegal basis on which to discriminate.

Repeal of the Three-Strikes Act
1. The Three-Strikes Act is repealed.

Darfur Divestment Bill
1. All companies operating within the Pacific Region shall divest all funds that are invested in Sudan by September 15, 2007.
2. Any company that does not divest from Sudan by the above date shall face a fine of $20,000 for every employee each day that it is still invested in Sudan.
3. Sections 1 and 2 of this bill will expire on January 1, 2009.

Pacific Regional Holidays Bill
1. January 22 shall henceforth be recognized as Women's Rights Day, an official holiday.
2. February 24 shall henceforth be recognized as Immigration Appreciation Day, an official holiday.
3. May 17 shall henceforth be recognized as LGBT Rights Day, an official holiday.
4. June 26 shall henceforth be recognized as Torture Victims Support Day, an official holiday.
5. July 2 shall henceforth be recognized as Civil Rights Day, an official holiday.
6. In consistency with federal law 12-6, Columbus Day, recognized on the second Monday of every October, is hereby abolished as an official holiday.

[Ebowed]

Minimum Wage Raise Bill:  Aye
Racial Profiling Bill:  Aye
LSD Legalization Bill:  Aye
Public Services Bill:  Aye
Environmental Standards Bill:  Aye
Anti-Discrimination Bill:  Aye
Repeal of the Three-Strikes Act:  Aye
Darfur Divestment Bill:  Aye
Pacific Regional Holidays Bill:  Aye